Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2067354 - 04/19/13 10:06 PM The Juilliard Store is online
Lelax Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 41
Just sharing my experience.... Over the past few months, I've had a great experience with the new online version of the Juilliard Store. Great selection of quality classical music scores such as the G. Henle Verlag Urtext series. Prices are decent, the shipping seems high. Also, I've noticed that PayPal does not seem to be a payment option. Orders are filled and shipped promptly. Out here in the wilds of California we can shop confidently at the prestigious and cool Juilliard Store. Almost like being in Manhattan itself.

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2067357 - 04/19/13 10:11 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7590
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Lelax
Just sharing my experience.... Over the past few months, I've had a great experience with the new online version of the Juilliard Store. Great selection of quality classical music scores such as the G. Henle Verlag Urtext series. Prices are decent, the shipping seems high. Also, I've noticed that PayPal does not seem to be a payment option. Orders are filled and shipped promptly. Out here in the wilds of California we can shop confidently at the prestigious and cool Juilliard Store. Almost like being in Manhattan itself...

...and I am lucky enough to live here, so that I can just drop by and pick up orders from the Juilliard Store itself! No shipping costs...ever! grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2067383 - 04/19/13 11:39 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6118
Loc: St. Louis area
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago. frown
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

Top
#2067396 - 04/20/13 12:24 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Oh no! Shattingers was a Missouri institution!
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2067420 - 04/20/13 01:56 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago.


Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Oh no! Shattingers was a Missouri institution!

Sad, indeed. And yet . . . folks are not making the connection that this:
Originally Posted By: Lelax
.... Over the past few months, I've had a great experience with the new online version of the Juilliard Store.

. . . leads to this:
Originally Posted By: Damon
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago.


I know -- there are many other factors at play -- but NOT buying from a real music store, as locally as you can, is a huge contributor to their decline, and eventual demise.
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Top
#2067501 - 04/20/13 08:22 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Damon]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 757
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Damon
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago. frown


Oh, that's too bad. I had started ordering from them after Patelson's in NY closed down. I found their service to be lacking starting about a year ago (unanswered messages, and the like), so I figured something must be up......it's sad.


Edited by Gerard12 (04/20/13 08:24 AM)
_________________________
Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).

Top
#2067547 - 04/20/13 10:01 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I do 90% of my music buying at two local brick and mortar stores - West Music and Eble Music.

I also think IMSLP is partly to blame for the demise of so many stores. I'm always amazed at the number of students who play off IMSLP scores. (Even music majors - you'd think they'd want something of better quality than random editions coming out of an inkjet printer!)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2067560 - 04/20/13 10:49 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
I'm a regular at le Croquenotes, our local music shop. Croquenotes, "the note eater", means singer or composer or songwriter. Always a busy place, and always a good chat to be had.

In France it is prohibited to sell books or printed material like music at less than 5% below the catalogue price. Good thing, this has helped many independant bookstores to prosper these last years.

Top
#2067606 - 04/20/13 01:01 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
AldenH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

I'm always amazed at the number of students who play off IMSLP scores. (Even music majors - you'd think they'd want something of better quality than random editions coming out of an inkjet printer!)


This amazes and saddens me as well: one's choice of edition is indicative of one's respect and consideration for the composer's intentions. Additionally, I can't imagine how unpleasant it would be to look at stark white paper with inkjet globs marring the engraving. I could get used to heavy, laser printed paper, but I do enjoy real bookbinding instead of three ring binders!

Top
#2067644 - 04/20/13 02:51 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: AldenH]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19284
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: AldenH
Originally Posted By: Kreisler

I'm always amazed at the number of students who play off IMSLP scores. (Even music majors - you'd think they'd want something of better quality than random editions coming out of an inkjet printer!)


This amazes and saddens me as well: one's choice of edition is indicative of one's respect and consideration for the composer's intentions. Additionally, I can't imagine how unpleasant it would be to look at stark white paper with inkjet globs marring the engraving. I could get used to heavy, laser printed paper, but I do enjoy real bookbinding instead of three ring binders!
I think for professional pianists the quality of the edition, especially in regard to knowing exactly what the composer's original score looked like as much as possible, are important. But for 99% who aren't professional IMO it's far less critical and editorial suggestions about fingering, pedaling, etc. can make having an edited score even an advantage over an urtext like edition.

For the 99% amateur pianists(like myself) my personal opinion is that many other more basic considerations in playing are far more important than "how urtext" the edition is. In other words, I think a top professional playing from and following a poor edition would usually sound far better than most amateurs playing from the "best" edition(however one wants to define "best").

As long as the edition is not very poorly edited I don't think an IMSLP score is much of a negative and in some cases can be a positive. Also, for much of the major literature there are multiple editions available at IMSLP. Finally, for a big part of the history of piano playing I think most people mostly used rather heavily edited editions.

As far as three ring binders go they are probably superior to most or even all bound editions in terms of page turning ease. I can see where a bound edition is more aesthetically pleasing. I have printed at least 30,000 pages from various internet sources. A lot of it is out of print music or non standard repertoire. There are no inkjet globs whatsoever. Most music can/should be printed using the "draft" setting.

Of course, the main reason anyone prints any music off the internet is the cost saving. I do appreciate the fact that the availability of music off the internet makes it more difficult for some people to make a living.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/20/13 03:03 PM)

Top
#2067671 - 04/20/13 03:45 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17966
Loc: Victoria, BC
Part of the problem that I have with copies printed from IMSLP is how some others use them!

It unnerves me considerably and makes me apprehensive enough to mar my (possible) enjoyment of a performance when I see someone trying to spread five flimsy pages across a music desk that comfortably holds only four without having given any thought to whether or not the pages will stay in place for the duration of the performance. Said pianists seem not to think that taping them together is one step in giving some stability to their music; they seem not to have grasped that these pages can be put into three-ring binders or, better yet, can be put into plastic sleeves inserted into three-ring binders.

I can't enjoy a performance if I'm worrying about whether or not half the music is going to land on the floor before the performance is over.

And even if the music does remain on the music desk, it still just irks me when I have to watch someone spend several minutes trying to overlap pages sufficiently so that the whole score can be put up on the music desk.

If they can't memorize, why then don't they just practice and learn the skill of turning pages?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#2067718 - 04/20/13 05:33 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Praeludium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 90
Loc: Besançon, France
My teacher hates loose sheets and so on. She told me many times "you cannot work with this".
When it's just something printed on paper, she asks me to tape them so that it'll be organized like a regular book.
According to her an important aspect of keeping all the sheets in this format is that it helps a lot with visual memory. This seems to be a very good point to me, this plus the simple but important/necessary practical convenience.



I buy some of my music books online, some at shops. Regular shops are nicer but sometimes it's just more partical to order books online and get them by the mail. We're maybe becoming too lazy.


And IMSLP is an amazing website. I does not equal a good editions, but it's just so great to use its score for analysis, reading while listening, sight-reading, discovering new repertoire, fac-similé/manuscripts, etc.
I don't see how these way of using it (probably the most common IMHO) could cause the demise of some stores.
Sometimes "offical" contemporary editors aren't much better than some of the old editions you find on IMSLP (I have some music sheets of Salabert which are really poorly made... no-PD work (albeit the composer is deceased), they do what they want you'll buy it from them anyway..).

Top
#2067828 - 04/21/13 12:33 AM The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Praeludium]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Praeludium
. . . I don't see how these [sic] way of using it (probably the most common IMHO) could cause the demise of some stores. . .

Of course you do. To state the obvious, if printed music were available only through music stores, or from the licensed publishers, this would ensure a “chain of profit” that remains within the music industry. In an overly-simplified statement, it keeps musicians’ money circulating among musicians.

Faithful replication of scores, high quality printing, and high quality binding are certainly not cheap. By making certain that those worthy publishers receive a due profit from our expenditures, we help ensure that quality printed music will continue to be available. By purchasing from a (bricks & mortar) music STORE, we do our part to ensure that the next time we feel like browsing, the lights will be on, and the doors will be open.

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Top
#2067870 - 04/21/13 05:13 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 562
Loc: Germany
My two cents about printed music and copies.

I like downloading scores from IMSLP, but I also own printed sonata collections; like the complete Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven sonatas.
But when I want to practise a sonata I own in a book, I usually make copies of them and tape them together. This way, they stay on the piano, on the page I want them to be.

And if I feel like practising a piece which I don't own in print, and the composer has been dead for at least 70 years, I don't see a problem with using online resources like IMSLP. After all, I'm just an amateur.

About brick and mortar stores that don't stay in business: We live in a market economy; and if musicians are not willing to pay for the services the stores provide, then the stores need to adapt, or leave.
Just like the music industry that has been complaining for decades about piracy (tapes in the last century, mp3 today). Yet the music industry still exist. Because they adapt. And those who don't adapt don't need crocodile tears; they need better business plans.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

Top
#2068026 - 04/21/13 01:10 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: LoPresti]
Praeludium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 90
Loc: Besançon, France
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: Praeludium
. . . I don't see how these [sic] way of using it (probably the most common IMHO) could cause the demise of some stores. . .

Of course you do. To state the obvious, if printed music were available only through music stores, or from the licensed publishers, this would ensure a “chain of profit” that remains within the music industry. In an overly-simplified statement, it keeps musicians’ money circulating among musicians.

Faithful replication of scores, high quality printing, and high quality binding are certainly not cheap. By making certain that those worthy publishers receive a due profit from our expenditures, we help ensure that quality printed music will continue to be available. By purchasing from a (bricks & mortar) music STORE, we do our part to ensure that the next time we feel like browsing, the lights will be on, and the doors will be open.

Ed



Do you really think I'd buy the music sheets for an Haydn symphony (or all the symphonies or whatever) just in order to listen to them while reading ? (:
I don't analyse/listen to while reading/etc. contemporary music because the sheets are really expensive. If I could, maybe I'd have four times more CDs of contemporary music and many sheets of my favorite pieces I discovered because of how free and accessible to everyone the music is.


The fact you have to buy sheets (sometimes very expensive) in order to know the music better is actually, in my mind, only helping this music to stay not well known, not well understood, etc.
Let's not forget that if you could only buy sheets from editors, some of them wouldn't care about giving you a good product (because you'd buy it from them anyway). I actually feel like that for Mompou's Suite Compostellana (it's for guitar). Very poor work from the editor (and it's being published since the 60's), but I had to buy. Erk.


Actually, without being able to download free (and perfectly legal, don't forget it) sheets on internet I don't know if I'd be playing classical music today (and hence buying sheets, CDs, etc.).
AND let's not forget that you can photocopy sheets, too, it's not like it's just IMSLP.
Maybe music sheets should be "protected" the same way some video games are now protected : you buy your copy, your register it on the web, and then you won't be able to even lend it to anyone. Forbidden to share. How nice.



Edited by Praeludium (04/21/13 01:11 PM)

Top
#2068047 - 04/21/13 01:55 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: LoPresti]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6118
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: Damon
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago.


Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Oh no! Shattingers was a Missouri institution!

Sad, indeed. And yet . . . folks are not making the connection that this:
Originally Posted By: Lelax
.... Over the past few months, I've had a great experience with the new online version of the Juilliard Store.

. . . leads to this:
Originally Posted By: Damon
Our local bricks & mortar, Shattingers, just closed shop a couple of days ago.


I know -- there are many other factors at play -- but NOT buying from a real music store, as locally as you can, is a huge contributor to their decline, and eventual demise.


I think another factor in the decline is a lack of accurate modern music in sheet music form. I don't mean modern classical music. There is absolutely no reason for a person interested in Pop, Rock or Jazz to enter such a place. Most of it is not even in the right key. Even the fairly recent "note for note" series...aren't. Physical store fronts can't just sit on music forever. The prices at Shattingers were comparable to online prices.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

Top
#2068174 - 04/21/13 05:57 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
For me, it's mostly about supporting the industry.

I don't really care so much about IMSLP not being urtext or print quality or anything like that.

What bothers me are artists who refuse to financially support the arts. It drives me CRAZY. They claim to love this or that pianist, but will only listen to them on Spotify or Pandora or YouTube - where the artist receives very little financial support. They claim to love a Rachmaninoff concerto, but complain about not being able to find a free copy online. (Meanwhile, they have no problem ordering a pizza that easily costs as much and is quickly gone in 30 minutes.) I know someone who, when getting married, chose a DJ over live music to save a few hundred bucks. (I'm all for being frugal, but with the average wedding costing upwards of $25,000 these days, choosing to save a few hundred bucks on music says more about a person's values than budget.)

And I mention students specifically because they are often quick to complain about the fact that they can't get a job and nobody supports what they do. It all seems hypocritical and self-destructive to me.

It's maddening that so many people seem to believe that, given a choice, the less expensive choice is always the best. Personally, I wish more people would choose to patronize and support the arts financially.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2068212 - 04/21/13 08:12 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: pianoloverus]
Lelax Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 41
Ah, good discussion on musical scores. I became a convert to the G. Henle Verlag editions some years ago while in Munich on a business trip. Walking around on a free day, I came across a sidewalk music store. On display was the G. Henle edition of the famous Mozart theme and variation collection. The quality of the paper and print was way better than anything I had access to before this. So I purchased it on the spot.

Sadly, out here in California, it was almost impossible to find these editions in nearby music stores.

Late last year, I found a copy of the Henle Bach WTC Vol.1 on eBay. Edited by E.-G. Heinemann. Preface and all notes printed in English, German, French. Fingering and Notes on Execution is by Andras Schiff, himself. His commentary is outstanding. And the volume is an absolute pleasure to use.

Finally, in Jan/Feb (or so) of this year, The Juilliard Store came online, browsing through their website we see they offer pretty much the full line of G.Henle Verlag editions. My latest acquisitions are the two volumes of Mozart Piano Sonatas.

We are happy.

And it's cheaper than flying to Germany!

Cheers from Palm Springs CA.

Top
#2068222 - 04/21/13 08:41 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Serge Marinkovic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 341
Loc: United States
I understand but I thought the same until I purchased the Wiener- Mozart Piano Sonatas and Variations from the Julliard Bookstore for $156.00 and its by far the best edition i have ever studied. Great fingering, comments. The structure is similar to Coopers Beethoven in that the score is easy to read and play. Paper quality is excellent. The book stays open. Pages turn easily so I becoming a fan of Wiener editions. The Schubert Wanderer, Bach Goldberg Variations, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. We should all begin to follow this publishing company.
_________________________
Serge P. Marinkovic, MD


Top
#2068296 - 04/21/13 10:53 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Why the sudden interest in Juilliard's bookstore? Henle and Vienna Urtext have been available for years at Hutchins and Rea, Eble Music, JW Pepper, and Sheetmusicplus.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2068310 - 04/21/13 11:09 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
For me, it's mostly about supporting the industry.

I don't really care so much about IMSLP not being urtext or print quality or anything like that.

What bothers me are artists who refuse to financially support the arts. It drives me CRAZY. They claim to love this or that pianist, but will only listen to them on Spotify or Pandora or YouTube - where the artist receives very little financial support. They claim to love a Rachmaninoff concerto, but complain about not being able to find a free copy online. (Meanwhile, they have no problem ordering a pizza that easily costs as much and is quickly gone in 30 minutes.) I know someone who, when getting married, chose a DJ over live music to save a few hundred bucks. (I'm all for being frugal, but with the average wedding costing upwards of $25,000 these days, choosing to save a few hundred bucks on music says more about a person's values than budget.)

And I mention students specifically because they are often quick to complain about the fact that they can't get a job and nobody supports what they do. It all seems hypocritical and self-destructive to me.

It's maddening that so many people seem to believe that, given a choice, the less expensive choice is always the best. Personally, I wish more people would choose to patronize and support the arts financially.


+111111111111
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#2068322 - 04/21/13 11:20 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 544
Loc: New York
My approach has always been this:

1. If I'm considering studying and learning a piece, I first print out some, or all of it from IMSLP.

2. If after a reasonable amount of time I become committed to the piece, I will look for a proper edition at a local store (which unfortunately I almost never find, which is why I usually skip to...)

3. I order a proper edition online.

This works for me, because it allows me some "hands on" time with a piece before I commit to buying a real copy. At least that's how I think of it.

Like I said though, sheet music, especially variety of editions, is almost impossible to come across even in New York. They recently closed Colony, this run-down huge sheet music and audio store in the middle of Times Square. Prices were decent and so was the selection. I'd always try and stop there if I was in the area. Now the only places are Guitar Center and Sam Ash, both of which have an extremely poor selection of sheet music of any kind.

Top
#2068375 - 04/22/13 01:42 AM The Juilliard Store is online [Re: patH]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
I realize that this thread is primarily about the superior craftsmanship of certain publishers, and their particular editions. To this, I gladly add my voice to the chant “Bravissimi!” It is heartening to hear that some are still not grossly compromising to stay alive.

So, with due apologies for again taking the thread slightly off the beam, we then have this aspect of “quality”:
Originally Posted By: patH
. . . About brick and mortar stores that don't stay in business: We live in a market economy; and if musicians are not willing to pay for the services the stores provide, then the stores need to adapt, or leave.

We DO live in a market economy (nothing new, by the way . . .) We “vote” our preferences with our expenditures. That is precisely why it is so very important to consider WHO is sharing in the profits of the dollars, or euros, or pounds, that we spend on music. Mr. Kreisler phrases it a slightly different way, and the net result is the same. If we, as musicians (both amateur and professional) do not support other musicians, and their music businesses, then they will no longer exist to support us.

Ya’ see, here’s the problem: When one starts focusing on new business plans, market trends, latest fads, time-to-market, volume distribution, bottom lines, and the agility to quickly change direction; then one looses focus on the main things - music and musicians.

And here’s the real potential danger: When we, as musicians, allow the availability of our music, both written and recorded, to rest primarily with marketing professionals, and accountants, and corporate shareholders; and they decide that music no longer pays the high return-on-investment that they need -- what then?
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Top
#2068386 - 04/22/13 01:56 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5250
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
It's maddening that so many people seem to believe that, given a choice, the less expensive choice is always the best. Personally, I wish more people would choose to patronize and support the arts financially.
What's even more bizarre on this is that in todays world "You get what you pay for" at large!

This was one of the first things I learned when moving in London (prior to that, living in Greece, I was not only too young or dependant to notice, but also society and the market works in different ways). In London it was crispy clear that the higher priced item is almost always better than the lower priced one! Not taking into account marketing gimmicks and discounts...

But in the end, I think there's still hope. Koji's kickstarter got funded very fine and dandy and all that... Other kickstarter projects get funded and it IS about crowdfunding and attention and promotion. So not everything is without hope: What kickstarter does is that it makes it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR what kind of money is needed to make a CD/recording/Score/whatever. And usually people do understand that. If, however, the same people are just offered the final product, they WILL complain about the price, "free art for free people" and all that crap!

sorry for ranting...

Back on topic now! grin

EDIT: If there's one comment that made me realize A LOT about myself, it was one that came from a marketing director and advertiser: "Stop being an artist, and be an entrepreneur!" Which is very true and very justifiable.

Still I can't make it happen, so I am looking for other people to help me on that part.


Edited by Nikolas (04/22/13 01:58 AM)
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#2068398 - 04/22/13 02:15 AM The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Praeludium]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Praeludium
Do you really think I'd buy the music sheets for an Haydn symphony (or all the symphonies or whatever) just in order to listen to them while reading ? (:
I don't analyse/listen to while reading/etc. contemporary music because the sheets are really expensive. If I could, maybe I'd have four times more CDs of contemporary music and many sheets of my favorite pieces I discovered because of how free and accessible to everyone the music is.

I do not know you, so I can not speculate on what you may or may not choose to purchase. In fairness, I do not have a good idea of what scores currently cost in France. I can tell you that when I was studying orchestral works, I purchased hundreds of full scores, more than half of which I have recently “pruned” out of the library. Most were modern works, and therefore costly. I did not buy them all at once. They took years and years (and YEARS) to accumulate.

I could be reading your post incorrectly, but there seems to be an implication that having a high number of CDs or “sheets” is desirable - the more, the better. I have not found that to be true.

Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Top
#2068475 - 04/22/13 05:38 AM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Lelax]
Praeludium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 90
Loc: Besançon, France
Well, for instance, Partiels by Gerard Grisey costs about 70€. As a student I can guarantee you that I can't afford it lol And I'm not ordering pizzas three times a week either.
And Grisey is dead so the money is definitely not ending in his pocket (I wonder how much money a composer earns from the sheets of his music that are sold via the traditional way).


I do not care about having a lot of "stuff". I already think I have too much CDs (I don't know all of them well), and haven't read through all my sheets yet.



Otherwise, I use IMSLP the same way as didyougethathing, and I buy the sheets if I'm studying the piece.


Of course I agree that music needs money and financial support to keep going, but I think the music industry is sometimes behaving too much like that, too much like an industry. In France we have an organization (private, I think, but which works for the state) called the SACEM. They're known for, amongst other things, making raids in conservatories.
When you get caught with photocopies, you pay a fine (Ive heard that even with sheet from IMSLP you have to pay a fine if you can't prove that they're from IMSLP, but I'm not sure this is reliable). They do the same with little concerts (of any style).
So, when industry works like that (like a mafia) you do not really want to support it.
Of course I happily buy sheets from editors I trust if I need it, but I don't understand how supporting the music industry is better than supporting iniatives like IMSLP which do a lot for the education of a lot of persons with music.
IMSLP doesn't bother anyone, it just puts online scores in the domain public (sometimes they're out of print too).
And I think it's very healthy because it keeps us from having only the music industry as source for recorded and printed music, which is, as I wrote earlier, very dangerous IMO.

Top
#2068765 - 04/22/13 04:04 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 562
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
What bothers me are artists who refuse to financially support the arts. It drives me CRAZY. They claim to love this or that pianist, but will only listen to them on Spotify or Pandora or YouTube - where the artist receives very little financial support. They claim to love a Rachmaninoff concerto, but complain about not being able to find a free copy online. (Meanwhile, they have no problem ordering a pizza that easily costs as much and is quickly gone in 30 minutes.)

It's a matter of priorities. Maybe people are saving money for a nice instrument, and therefore cut expenses on scores. After all, the score is just printed paper; but the musician with an instrument will make it sound like music.
And a pizza will keep you fed for hours; and if you don't eat, you starve. And unlike music, you can not download food from the Internet.

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I know someone who, when getting married, chose a DJ over live music to save a few hundred bucks. (I'm all for being frugal, but with the average wedding costing upwards of $25,000 these days, choosing to save a few hundred bucks on music says more about a person's values than budget.)

Maybe live music just is not important to them. Again, priorities. And I don't know how much their wedding cost. And DJs are artists as well.
But I digress. The point is: I believe that people are willing to pay good money if they believe that they get good value for it. And smart businesspeople will know that and provide an offer.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

Top
#2068767 - 04/22/13 04:05 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: LoPresti]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 562
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
And here’s the real potential danger: When we, as musicians, allow the availability of our music, both written and recorded, to rest primarily with marketing professionals, and accountants, and corporate shareholders; and they decide that music no longer pays the high return-on-investment that they need -- what then?

If that was the case, high end piano manufacturers like Steinway or Sauter would be out of business, and Yamaha would only build Clavinovas. I believe that people, especially artists, are willing to pay good money for what they consider valuable. Accountants and shareholders know that.
And anyway: I don't know if IMSLP is run by accountants and shareholders.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

Top
#2068778 - 04/22/13 04:29 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: patH]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13780
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: patH
The point is: I believe that people are willing to pay good money if they believe that they get good value for it.


Exactly.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#2069515 - 04/23/13 06:13 PM Re: The Juilliard Store is online [Re: Kreisler]
Serge Marinkovic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 341
Loc: United States
I like the Julliard store because when I call they tell me everything. Quality of printing, is the printing easy to read and who is the editor. They often have recommendations thats how I was turned on to Wiener editions. Also they turned me onto buying the Thumer edition of the Pictures at an Exhibition. The student I often speak to is a clarinetist but he also plays piano and has made some great recommendations. The Thumer score for Pictures is from 1914 so I was lucky to find one copy in Germany for 16 dollars in excellent condition. The Thumer edition has great fingering that I feel makes it easier to play for me.
_________________________
Serge P. Marinkovic, MD


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
119 registered (Al LaPorte, accordeur, A Guy, 42 invisible), 1295 Guests and 23 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76053 Members
42 Forums
157255 Topics
2309735 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Should I pursue piano?
by arpan70
09/03/14 01:05 AM
An edifying challenge
by BDB
09/02/14 11:44 PM
Steinway or Porsche?
by Jennymomofboys
09/02/14 10:16 PM
Shostakovich Prelude 4 (E minor)
by johnlewisgrant
09/02/14 09:24 PM
Help!
by MandyD
09/02/14 09:09 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission