2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
34 members (busa, benkeys, Burkhard, fullerphoto, Erinmarriott, David Boyce, 20/20 Vision, Animisha, beeboss, Cominut, 4 invisible), 1,288 guests, and 287 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 999
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 999
[
Originally Posted by Mwm
Any automaton can play the piano. Midi files are goods examples of just that. Any one can learn the technique to play 90% of the piano music written, as fast as they want to, given enough time to practice. Musicality doesn't tag along with technique. Some of the greatest musicians can play a simple Haydn piano sonata in a manner that will bring tears to the eyes. All they needed to do that was a very low level of technique. Most other piano players will never play that simple Haydn sonata as musically, no matter how much technique they develop over a lifetime of practice.
To play a "simple" Haydn sonata and bring out its meaning requires a high degree of physical control over dynamics and timing. Usually that degree of control is achieved only by professional-level pianists. Even if the pianist doesn't need fast double thirds to play the sonata, he or she is still employing what I would call a very high level of technique. There are fortunate individuals who happen to find from the start a correct physical approach to the keyboard, such that their thoughts flow through their fingers and the keyboard into the world of sound. But most of us have to work long and hard to acquire that.

For the original question, I would choose technique, without question. My current technique lags far behind my musical understanding. Whenever I gain a bit more control over the mechanism, every piece I am working on immediately shows up decidely more nuanced and closer to the ideal image. It's as if the next level of meaning is in the background, shut out, and rushes in to fill the space created by the disappearing of some physical awkwardness.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
M
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
[quote=Ferdinand... To play a "simple" Haydn sonata and bring out its meaning requires a high degree of physical control over dynamics and timing. Usually that degree of control is achieved only by professional-level pianists. Even if the pianist doesn't need fast double thirds to play the sonata, he or she is still employing what I would call a very high level of technique. There are fortunate individuals who happen to find from the start a correct physical approach to the keyboard, such that their thougts flow through their fingers and the keyboard into the world of sound. But most of us have to work long and hard to acquire that. [/quote]

I would argue that physical control over the dynamics, and many other aspects of the physical side of controlling the piano, are highly dependent on the qualitiy of the regulation of the piano. One cannot play softly, or achieve fast repetition, if the piano is incapable of producing the desired result. We should all be so lucky (or have astute parents) to start on a decent instrument.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,182
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by Morodiene
I would choose technique, because I find that to be more limiting to me right now than my musicality.

Ditto. My technique is a bit sloppy, so having it improved would help me focus on the music.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by Morodiene
I would choose technique, because I find that to be more limiting to me right now than my musicality.

Ditto. My technique is a bit sloppy, so having it improved would help me focus on the music.


Just to further clarify, I say this with the meaning that technique is a mean to an end: to have more in my arsenal so that I can be more musical. Or rather, to make being more musical easier to achieve. "Technical" playing (i.e., playing with precision but without attention to musicality) is not the goal, nor did I interpret that to be the aim of the OP's question. Hopefully technique works to aid the performer in being more musical/communicating better to the audience.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Kreisler
Easy. Musicality. 100% Final answer. Next question plz...

Which you are able to achieve without technique? I suspect that you started to learn to play the piano in childhood and probably had some good teachers along the way. Put yourself in the shoes of any musical person who does not have the ability to control loud and soft, articulations, and other things you have in your fingertips, because they never learned. How musical will it sound? I think that maybe "technique" should be defined, because I have a feeling different things are being imagined by different people.


The original question was "Given the way you play right now if you were given a choice between only improving your technique or only improving your musicality which would you choose and why?."

I answered that. I don't believe the answer would or should be the same for everyone. I chose my answer because my technique is at a point where, if I can hear and feel something, my hands tend to respond fairly well. (And what they don't respond to I can practice...)

Plus, musical improvement is where the artistry lies. I won't ever have the technique to dash off Feux Follets, but I don't really want it. I have enough technique to play the kinds of music I like to play. I would much rather explore musical territory with existing tools than simply gain new tools.

(And of course, the premise of the whole thread is purely an academic exercise with little bearing in real life, so I don't really think parsing definitions is all that useful..)


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
M
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 752
Again, I say musicality. When I am too old and infirm to play, my technique will mean nothing, but my musicality will allow me to enjoy listening to others who have both technique and musicality.

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Technique.



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 11
S
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 11
Technique


Currently in Albert's Adult Basic Piano Level 2
Working on:
Light and Blue
Hungarian Rapashody
Bagatelle
Minuet by James Hook
Little Prelude
First Lessons in Bach- Minuet in G Major
Czerny Opus 599 Exercise 2
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 833
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 833
I would choose technique, because I am content that my musicality is improving as the years go by, but during the same period my technique has hardly improved. I think the main reason for this is simple: over the years I have been thinking through music and/or listening to recordings for hours a day, while only spending an average of about 5 minutes per day actually playing (for lots of reasons). I also believe that maturity and life experience have helped my musicality over the years while doing little for my technique.

To those who doubt the worth of the original question, try considering this: what if there were a way to make your interpretation a reality without technical limitations? The way this hypothetical magic would be achieved is not important, and could be whatever produces the most satisfying result to you. For example, finding oneself in the body of a great concert pianist and then practicing and performing without any time or energy constraints. Or being able to tweak, in all respects and levels of detail, a combination of reference performances until you reach your desired interpretation. (I would much prefer the former scenario, while others might prefer the latter or another.)

The point is, if you could produce your "ideal" interpretation with all technical weaknesses resolved, what would the results be? I conjecture that there would be a whole spectrum of results, ranging almost as widely as people's technical ability. At the extreme ends: some music fans who have never even touched a piano or played a musical instrument in their lives would turn out to be wonderful musicians when endowed with the technique to express themselves; while some competent technicians would not produce very musical results even when endowed with the best possible technique in the world.

Even though it is not possible in reality to separate musicality and technique, I think it is interesting and thought-provoking to imagine that they could be separated, and thanks for asking the question.


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2
Musicality. I'm so lacking this.

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 254
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 254
I would pick musical understanding. My first thought was technique, because I feel that's why I'm lacking most, but after a discussion with my teacher this week, we were talking about how most technical problems come from a lack of true musical understanding of the piece and lack of a clear picture of the sound you're trying to achieve. If you understand what the composer wants and can clearly picture the sound you want, you are much more likely to be able to figure out how to have your hands do it. Interesting thought.


Piano/Composition major.

Proud owner of a beautiful Yamaha C7.

Polish:
Liszt Petrarch Sonnet 104
Bach WTC book 1 no. 6.
Dello Joio Sonata no. 3

New:
Chopin op. 23
Bach WTC book 2 no. 20
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,799
Thanks for the many interesting replies so far. I am a little surprised that technique seems to be quite a bit more favored so far, although when I asked the question I really didn't know what to expect.

To rephrase my choice again I'd say something like that even if I could do whatever I wanted(no technical limitations) I know I wouldn't be able to play these relatively non technically demanding pieces as beautifully as these pianists do. For reasons I don't reasons understand trying to understand what they are doing has become more interesting to me at this point in my life. That is why I would choose musicality.

(Achucarro-Chopin Nocturne in E flat, Zimerman-Chopin Mazurka in g minor, Grosvenor-Gershwin/Grainger Love Walked In, Hough-Paderewski Nocturne)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScVkvd9-N-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKlYaygCek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ewEbGae_BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ewEbGae_BM

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/20/13 06:10 PM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,183
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.