Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum MOTH damage: a deal breaker?

I am looking to buy a 1985 Yamaha C7 that has barely been played at a fantastic price but it has pretty extensive moth damage. The seller has offered to replace all the felts and dampers (except the under string felt) at his expense but I am worried about residual larvae in the casework. Is this a legitimate concern? Can it be remedied? Should I walk away from this instrument?

Wow! Color me surprised. I don't think I've seen moth damage in any piano made after the 1930s. I have always thought that all felt made after the 20s was mothproofed. Those must be some gnarly mutant moths, or I've lived a charmed life up here in the frozen North.

If it IS moth damage, it will likely be under the keys and all through the action, and that's a big repair job.

It is unusual to see moths active where the understring felts are. Did you have a technician remove the action and inspect all the felts?

In my experience if you keep a house clean and clean soiled wool clothes that you have there is not much for the moths to eat and they won't set up residence with you.

Most of what people call moth damage is actually from mites. They are everywhere. They eat bits of hair and skin that shed off people, and as felt is made of hair, they can eat that, too.

Moth had felt breakfast under piano's keys

I would not worry too much , the larvae are under the keybed, once they have eaten all punchings they raise in the mortises.

Seen them in dampers is exceptional they shoul have eaten a lot of felts in tge action. Expensive work probable.

Yamaha damper felt are expensive and the fiber is horizontal. They would get noisy if replaced with vertical felt.(or any low quality dampersľ

Felts are moothproofed but the product seem to loose their effect in time.

In the action , jack stop felts, and rest felts could be missing too. Stop felts in damper mechanism.

The white action felt seem to be less eaten generally.

With time they can even eat it in the knuckles, the whippen heel cloth

Not sure the seller is aware of the cost of the repair...
Moths ONLY in the keybord region is not so expensive .

Non played piano. Have a Yamaha tech see it.

Isaak, thanks for "moth message".I noticed one detail, if the piano works daily, the moth does not lives in it. I think that the resulting sound waves do not give her good life.

Katy reglue new heel cloth of hammer
http://youtu.be/KMRz6LYCpQQ

"...Should I walk away from this instrument?..."

I have a feeling you are going to buy it, but personally, I would run like the wind.

At the minimum, I would have the piano inspected by an experienced piano tech, and also a pest control tech who has experience with de-mothing pianos (if you can find such); with detailed financial quotes from each. Writing to a website does not count.

You should let a movie studio buy it--- this could be spectacular on film.

I have heard that mice will avoid pianos that are played regularly. This does not necessarily transfer to moth activity. Recently I replaced the keyboard felts on an upright. There was a lot of damage to the felts and I found numerous live cocoons. The piano has been played 1 - 2 hours every day for the past years.

Too bad , a myth (a suspiscion...) die.

Mites can live all year long in warm and dark places, I find more often them in neglected pianos.

Installing some protection against them is not difficult, I recall the old guys used "naphtaline" bowls, a solid that turns to a chlourous gas, and the poor tuner feel bad when the piano was opened. (I have read that this product is bad for the strings)
Then I have seen regularely some powder generously poured on anything (DDT ?)


The papers or goodies that are installed in the cloth trays are ok and do not smell.

Chances are that you see mites flying in the house, they are easy to recognize the wool mites have a neat fly (take off and landing included )

The other type that like floor and cereals have a very disturbed fly with constant direction changes. They look almost the same but the wool mite is smaller (and say "aiiii" if you clap it between your hands).

So have a look around flying insects in home... And take care of the nice woolen cloths that your grandma made for you ...

The choice of the music played have some importance...

They even eat the cloths mixed with synthetics as long as there is wool.

It takes a lot of time before they really harm so chances are that you detect them before.

Traditional moth balls are made of more or less pure naphthalene. It's a volatile organic (aromatic) compound. From a chemical viewpoint, I see no reason to believe that it will hurt any components in a piano, strings included.

But the smell is (ob)noxious, and the compound is a suspected carcinogen. There are better alternatives, as already mentioned.

One thing to remember is that moth damage is the SELLER's explanation. How do we know the seller knows what he is talking about? I see felt damage from rodents very commonly, but never moth damage, except in antiques. Also if the seller was aware of the damage why didn't he already fix it? Are either of you aware that if damage to the felts is extensive including the felts on the wippens and under the keys, you are talking about literally needing to rebuild and completely regulate the action from scratch, IOW thousands of dollars? And if the piano is very good, why would he be offering it at a cheap price? Is it possible the seller thinks the piano is a dog and that's why it's priced cheaply? People don't usually sell for less than they think they have to. If this is from a store, even moreso. "Virtually unplayed" is not a big attraction to me on a piano that old, because it usually also means "completely unmaintained". A LOT of problems can accumulate in an unplayed and unmaintained piano nearly 30 years old.

Actually, INSECT damage is the technician's explanation, the one I hired to inspect the instrument. I asked him if he thought it was moths and he said probably because he could see casings/eggs as well. Your point about the regulation is well taken, this would require a major regulation (costing 1-2,000?), not just tweaking. He is only asking $12,000 for it, and he is willing to replace the felts at his expense. His explanation for the low price is he got it really cheap himself from an estate liquidation. I really believe he did not know about the damage: I tried out the piano literally hours after it landed in his friend's shop. It would seem that I could pay for full regulation and still come out ahead with a great value, but my better judgement tells me to go for plan B: a gray market 1977 Yamaha C7 that has just been rebuilt, with new strings, dampers, hammers, pinblock, for $13,000, which checked out okay by the same technician.

I did have it inspected, the technician was the one who alerted me to the problem. I am less inclined to buy it as I have an alternative, which I think is a viable one: 1977 grey market Yamaha C7 recently rebuilt with new hammers, dampers, strings and pinblock, which has passed inspection by the same technician. Needs some minor regulation but otherwise good to go, and I like playing it. Whaddya think? no brainer? I think it's just the value glutton in me, having a bit of a time passing on the chance to get a newer, made for US market yamaha (ok, with insect issues) for little more $$$ than a newly rebuilt, older grey market. Thoughts?

I don't think there are any "no brainers" when I can't see/play it for myself, but I will say it's a whole lot wiser if you are checking the piano in the finalized condition you are paying for rather than one you are planning to recondition and are hoping the end result will be good.