Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Can we kick some people off the Quarterly Recitals already??

Inspiring to watch all the posts here.

As a beginner, to the piano and to the forum, I cannot contribute much but I am simply amazed at everyone's commitment to providing a friendly environment and space for all to participate. The debate, although heated at times, reveals the caring nature of the group.

If only the world would stop using analogies at every moment of debate I am sure we could get on better.

1+

Cas, I like B&B too, or maybe 'improvers' , though 'Beginners and Beyond' is more catching.

meant to say 'catchy' not catching, which makes it sound like an illness!

Me too!

It's a catchy name... widely diverse and all-inclusive sounding... But, what's in a name...?

Widely diverse and all-inclusive is what we have now...

"Beginner and Beyond" - nice, but how far beyond? Unlimited? Certainly...where would one cut it off at the upper end? Exclude anyone participating in a PC Recital? Discrimination! Fodder for another lively thread...

And if we change the name of the recital, then will we change the name of the Forum itself? ...Beginner and Beyond Forum? it's more than obvious that adult beginners are only a part (a minority?) of those participating on a regular basis on the ABF...more fodder...

Also, should we consider an "Intermediate and Beyond" Recital, which would include only seasoned and experienced players of a certain level of expertise, and exclude beginners, who would eventually be voted in based on their increasing progress and skill acquisition as demonstrated by their entries in the Beginner's Recitals over time? (he said, throwing the grenade and running for cover...)

Less than 3 weeks now to the ___ Forum Beginner and Beyond Recital folks...polish up!

WOW! Mr.superhunky, that was a totally unexpected and uncalled for tirade indeed.
In reality I was expounding on your analogy: Mr. Whippy being one of the Uk's favourite brands. ( Its really smooth and creamy and doesnt have any ice in it that may hurt ones teeth)

Moving on, I accept your apology in the spirit of a simple misunderstanding.

What I was actually trying to convey was that folk come to Pianoworld and the ABF for probably as many reasons as there are people.

Everyone comes here from, and with, their own perspective, how could they do otherwise?

It would be quite arrogant to think that what ever perspective I have and hold: that must be the perspective of others, it may well be in some cases, but I cannot state for certain in any one case that it is, unless I have intimate knowledge of that person:their background, their hopes, goals,fears, loves, desires etc.

I want to address the point of not making a submission to the quarterly recitals.

I did once make a submission to the monthly recitals and realised too late that (due to the sheer number of submissions) I did not have the time at that point in time to listen to everyones piece let alone construct a comment for all the wonderful and well played pieces of music.

I felt very bad about that and thought I would leave it and the quarterly recitals till I had more time.
(Then I got involved in the themed recitals, which the latest one of has taken an extraordinary ammount of time indeed!)

I feel it is extremely, if not of paramount importance that "true" adult beginners ( or beginners of any age) be in the company of more advanced and knowledgable people/players.

Herein lies great opportunity: if anyone wants to learn how to do something ( in this instance play the piano well, but it applies to all skills)
There is no better way than to watch and learn and ask questions off someone who you personally look up to as being someone you "wish you could play as well as"

And that is what is so good about pianoworld, those folks are usually all approachable and willing to help out.

Surely its just a matter of educating the "newbies" to piano that these folk are not intimidating and are willing to share their knowledge to help folk improve?

And to rest assured there will be no "judging" "ridicule" or "negativity" involved in that help?

I'm just curious but let's say that the majority of recital participants agree that "Beginners and Beyond" should be the name of the recital... Who makes the final decision and the change to the name? I would vote to change it BTW. I've also always thought that "Adult Beginner's Forum" was too narrow a focus/name but I won't even go there.

I am currently the person who has volunteered to keep the software running. Monica is the person who has volunteered to actually run the recitals.

Check recitals.pianoworld.com to see how it looks now.

Suggest a change in the text!

If we can come to some consensus I'll make the change.

If we want the change before the next recital it will need to be decided on before May 1st.

Sam

Well there you have it. I say we vote.

I vote to rename the recital the Beginners and Beyond Recital, that we throw Rickster out, that we call SH "Whippy" and that Monica has to dress up like Linda Hamilton in the Terminator for all of her youtube vids.

I vote for not jumping to (any more) conclusions.

+1!

True, but then "Beginner and Beyond" may be far to broad a focus/name - as I asked before: are there any limits to the "Beyond" part? Are PC regulars welcome? How about conservatory students, or teachers, or professionals, or even concert pianists? If not, then "Beyond" has some limits, and so what are they?

But, if they are welcome (not excluded) then why not just call it The PianoWorld Recital Open (like in golf or tennis) or the PianoWorld Everyone Recital - and in any case why even use the "Beginner" name at all, anywhere - it's redundant - it's clear to even the most casual observer that one would probably not be entering a piece in an online piano recital unless one were at least a beginner...

Beginner and Beyond sounds cute and sophisticated, but when you look at it hard and cold does it really make sense?

Sam, my reading of your post is that you're referring to the recital name, not the forum name. Is that correct?

If so, anyone know who has the where-with-all to change the forum name? Do we need a poll to find out if there is a consensus?

It does, IMHO.

If participating in the recital floats their boat, then yes, I think professionals, conservatory students, 40-year teaching veterans and their ilk should feel welcome to submit whatever they wish to submit. But generally speaking, I don't think they are the problem. They're going to share their music wherever and whenever they can, whether we encourage them to do so or not.

If we rename the recital to "beginner and beyond", its name will perhaps more accurately reflect the varying levels of the people who actually participate in it. But it will also clearly signal the fact that it is open to participants of *all* levels (and perhaps especially to those who are just starting out), even though the quality of the submissions would sometimes suggest otherwise.

Suppose we had a recital named "the PianoWorld Open Recital", as you suggest. Newcomers would read that, listen to some of the past submissions, and think "well, clearly, this is something people only take part in once they've cleared a certain hurdle. It's not for me (yet)." Over time, as less beginners took part in it, and more people who are towards the 'professional' side of the spectrum submitted something, the average level would keep going up, until only the cream of the crop felt they could 'safely' participate.

On the other hand, if the word beginner is explicitly there in the title, then it's clear to everyone that the recital at least *intends* to be open to everyone. To me, it doesn't matter how people interpret the word "beyond". Yundi Li or Lang Lang could sign up here and submit their practice sessions, for all I care. The important thing is that we don't do anything that might lower the number of participants at the other end of the spectrum. Because obviously, Yundi Li and Lang Lang don't need to come here to find an audience. Neither do most professional musicians, conservatory students and teachers. But for many beginners, the ABF is the best option they have.

Yes, I was just referring to the name and/or text associated with the quarterly recital.

Changing the forum name may cause problems with old links - I don't know. That would be a question for Frank Baxter, who owns and runs Piano World.

Sam

But that very thing is happening right now, and has been happening since the first recital here, and with the word "Beginner" clearly in the title - hence the angst-induced periodic threads wanting to know who can/can't submit, and requesting name changes, pushing for alternative recitals, etc., etc. Adding the word "Beyond" won't change anything.

If the real problem here is getting rid of the "fear-factor" of submitting a recital recording for those relatively new to the instrument it's not going to happen with reorganization or new nomenclature - only time and experience and the self confidence that comes with increasing skill can do that.

trapper, I agree with you that the underlying problem is in the fear or intimidation of the true beginner. This is just an expressed human behavior because people fear the unknown.

The fact is, once the true beginner DOES participate in the recital, they realize it wasn't that bad and that they actually DID survive it.

It will never change because at some point everyone must take their first step. Once they do, confidence will immediately start to build and off they go.

Kinda reminds me of that first day on the big bike without the training wheels.

Peyton, in the past, once a group consensus was reached concerning a specific topic the new procedure was simply implemented to avoid a 'designed by committee' square wheeled car.

If enough people are okay with the "Beginner and Beyond" title then it will simply be applied and that's it.

I personally like this title because it is descriptively accurate. It doesn't just say 'beginner' in the title like the current inaccurate one does. And it doesn't have the word 'pianist' in the title indicating professional level abilities.

'Beginner and Beyond' may actually be the best and most accurate description that can realistically and accurately be applied to this group.

I like it. I LUV it.

Except that it will do away with the implication that all participants in the ABF Recital are beginners. Clearly, this is untrue, but newcomers don't necessarily know that.

Beginners and Beyond", to me, says two things:

1) Open to all levels, especially beginners
2) Not all participants will be beginners ... some are "beyond" ... whether that means they're early intermediate, or just about to start a solo recital tour.

I agree... and plan to participate as long as my touring schedule allows me to do so.

on the name change.

Well heck, I wanted to be on a committe.