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#2071205 - 04/26/13 03:38 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Quote:

Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.


Well I want to get good and tend to use her as a guide to whether or not I will make it. I want to be her star students in a sense because it means I have a chance. So I very much want to impress her but mustn’t you learn a lot and indefinitely everything she has to offer you in order to do that? Through her behavior towards me, it doesn’t appear as if she supports making more mistakes, she wants it to get perfect asap and nailed that way. She gets really serious when you make the same mistake the following week. Don’t you need the pressure to be able to perform perfect in order to succeed? I would think that it’s only beneficial to make a mistake in front of her if it’s a new one that you can’t fix yourself.
Bottom line is, it not her that I am trying to please in the end. She’s not the ultimate goal and a stepping stone, I may as well do it as I do feel close to her anyways.

If only she knew…I think she’d be happy. I guess I just think I’m not worth it.
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#2071206 - 04/26/13 03:41 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Gary D.]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Whizbang
* It's completely natural to feel a nervous wreck in front of your teacher.

Wrong. You should NEVER feel that way with your teacher. If you have a good relationship with them you should be very comfortable around them.

I've had some serious disagreements with you, but this time you have it right.


Ladies and gentlemen everything that is posted by me starting with the colorful post is that thread having been edited. Gosh it took forever. It is in order except for this post that I am responding to so please read it all, it took like 1 hour the site was screwing with me.
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#2071211 - 04/26/13 03:48 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94

Quote:
Is that a correct summary?

Since you wrote that you have improved a lot since going to her, did you study with another teacher before? So you are not a beginner, but more like an intermediate student or beyond? How many years have you studied piano - what kinds of things have you reached, and what kinds of things does this teacher want of you?


The summary is pretty good.
To answer specific questions, I have studied with another teacher for a few months before moving to her. I've been playing around a year total. Could you read the whole thing since I've made it neat? It'll help, can you make a new response after it and see if your perspectives changed? Your questions make it seem like reading it will clear it up. I like where your heading...



Edited by Musiqientist (04/26/13 03:49 AM)
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#2071213 - 04/26/13 03:55 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11731
Loc: Canada
I am also in the other forum and read the dialogue there but was busy at the time, so I am familiar with it.

Please do read my long post carefully, especially the suggestions, because many of the things you describe are not that new. That said, I agree with those who said you should never feel intimidated by a teacher. My gut feeling is that she is deliberately keeping you on edge, but I have no way of knowing.

What you are describing fits more with what might happen between an advanced, well-trained student going for a profession - because that kind of behaviour does happen there, but not for someone who has been playing a year.

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#2071221 - 04/26/13 04:06 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: keystring]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: keystring
Well, you asked for it to be posted here. wink It's much easier to read in the original link.

I repeat for the 3rd time - I cannot access the other website, or else I would have just read it there.
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Polyphonist

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#2071223 - 04/26/13 04:07 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: keystring
I am also in the other forum and read the dialogue there but was busy at the time, so I am familiar with it.

Please do read my long post carefully, especially the suggestions, because many of the things you describe are not that new. That said, I agree with those who said you should never feel intimidated by a teacher. My gut feeling is that she is deliberately keeping you on edge, but I have no way of knowing.

What you are describing fits more with what might happen between an advanced, well-trained student going for a profession - because that kind of behaviour does happen there, but not for someone who has been playing a year.


Yes, it was a very good post and I will respond thoroughly tomorrow it's 1 am here. That's the thing I must figure out why she's doing it and I don't know if you read that part but in the post i list what I'm playing and I'm not sure but according to my research they are rather advanced pieces. I have a huge list of hints she's dropped and I really wanna sniff it out.
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#2071224 - 04/26/13 04:10 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Polyphonist]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: keystring
Well, you asked for it to be posted here. wink It's much easier to read in the original link.

I repeat for the 3rd time - I cannot access the other website, or else I would have just read it there.


WELL READ IT NOW!!!!! Lol
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#2071240 - 04/26/13 04:42 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
I don't think you realize that it's almost 5:00 AM and I have to get up tomorrow (well, today) at 7:30.
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Polyphonist

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#2071265 - 04/26/13 06:58 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist

At the moment I've been playing for about a year solid and am currently working on a Mozart Concerto, 2 grade 9 solos, 2 Chopin etudes, and an easier piece by Bach.


You've been doing what??!! After playing for a year? Did you sleep at all, or eat, during this year?
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#2071330 - 04/26/13 09:14 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
What an awesome thread!
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Music teacher and piano player.

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#2071347 - 04/26/13 09:35 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 261
Loc: USA
Musi,

I think you should stop trying to "read your teacher's mind". The teacher works for YOU, you don't work for the teacher.

The length of your posts makes me think you're over-thinking the situation.

If the teacher's behavior is causing you to spend so much time agonizing over things like this, you should just talk to her bluntly about it.

You, or your parents, are paying this teacher to help your musical development. If something is getting in the way of that, it should be discussed.

Forget that the teacher went to Juilliard. That means she was a great student. Now, I'm sure she wants to be a great teacher.

Tell her what you need from her in order to feel comfortable. Try to sum it up in specific suggestions/issues that she can act on.

If the basic problem is that you're in awe of someone who went to Juilliard, find a teacher who didn't.

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#2071358 - 04/26/13 09:50 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
thought the topic title looked interesting, so clicked on it.

Now I am losing the will to live!
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Rob

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#2071361 - 04/26/13 09:54 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: rocket88]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: rocket88
What an awesome thread!

Yup! Every so often we find a thread that is "special", and stands out from the rest in some particular, unique aspect. This is one such thread.

KeyString -- you have the patience of Job!
Ed
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#2071383 - 04/26/13 10:43 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 510
Without wading through ALL the responses - and since I am barely a beginner myself so cannot respond "authoritatively", I would like to offer some generalities about teaching/coaching/instructing from other fields.

I believe the role of a teacher/instructor/coach is to help us toward our goals.
What our goals ARE may need formal definition early on.
(rock, classical, blues, accompany, etc.)
An early "lesson" should be an evaluation, i.e. where the student is now AT.
From there, basically a plan for getting from where the student IS to where they want to be.
Whether or not this is written, discussed, etc. may be a matter of "teaching style".
I have to believe it is in the teacher's head and drives the instruction, i.e. when a teachers says "I think some xyz would be helpful" that suggestion is the teachers plan to produce progress. SOME teachers may go into great detail to explain how/why, some may not.
"Scales are good for you" is an example of minimal explanation laugh

I suggest you ignore the teacher's own level of musicianship - it is essentially not relevant.
It is not her role to impress you, it is not your role to impress her.
Her role is to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
To abstract this from piano consider the following;
Tiger Woods is probably not at all impressed by his coach's golf swing, however his coach CAN and DOES identify opportunities for improvement in Woods' swing, helps toward achieving that/those improvement(s) too.
OK, that is an example of a top level coach with a top level player, point is the coach doesn't need to be "better" than the student in order to "help".

Ooops, I have a time commitment, gotta run.

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#2071437 - 04/26/13 11:27 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
But I need to know if I can make it!!!! Instead I'm scared of her and don't know if she knows anything and if she doesn't then she doesn't care but i don't know that either! Do you think the chemistry is wrong? The only thing that would say that the chemistry is wrong is that I'm nervous. That's all. I think it's me. There's no apparent reason for me to be like this around her. I think it's the cutting things she's said, they say all the best teachers in a conservatory say such things anyways. I don't know if she supports me. That's what I'm trying to figure out.


Before I say anything more, can you answer me this question: "Is your ultimate aim to become a professional musician?"
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Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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#2071464 - 04/26/13 11:58 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1023
Loc: Irvine, CA
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
I think you should stop trying to "read your teacher's mind"


thumb Like
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Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
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#2071474 - 04/26/13 12:11 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Polyphonist]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I don't think you realize that it's almost 5:00 AM and I have to get up tomorrow (well, today) at 7:30.


I'm not in New York, I don't know the time there.
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#2071478 - 04/26/13 12:13 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Whizbang]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Whizbang
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
But I need to know if I can make it!!!! Instead I'm scared of her and don't know if she knows anything and if she doesn't then she doesn't care but i don't know that either! Do you think the chemistry is wrong? The only thing that would say that the chemistry is wrong is that I'm nervous. That's all. I think it's me. There's no apparent reason for me to be like this around her. I think it's the cutting things she's said, they say all the best teachers in a conservatory say such things anyways. I don't know if she supports me. That's what I'm trying to figure out.


Before I say anything more, can you answer me this question: "Is your ultimate aim to become a professional musician?"


I want to double major in piano performance and biophysics which is my current major and then after that hopefully enter a major conservatory. After that, hopefully get to perform.


Edited by Musiqientist (04/26/13 12:13 PM)
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#2071480 - 04/26/13 12:16 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: R0B]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: R0B
thought the topic title looked interesting, so clicked on it.

Now I am losing the will to live!




Is this sarcasm? It's so awful!! The whole first page is nonsense! Hope it didn't make me get less views.
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#2071482 - 04/26/13 12:18 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Originally Posted By: R0B
thought the topic title looked interesting, so clicked on it.

Now I am losing the will to live!




Is this sarcasm? It's so awful!! The whole first page is nonsense! Hope it didn't make me get less views.


Is that what this is all about? Getting views?
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2071485 - 04/26/13 12:19 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: LoPresti]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: rocket88
What an awesome thread!

Yup! Every so often we find a thread that is "special", and stands out from the rest in some particular, unique aspect. This is one such thread.


What's so good and unique about it?

Quote:
KeyString -- you have the patience of Job!
Ed


Yeah, still finding time for a good reply. Hoping to get more responses like key strings.
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#2071487 - 04/26/13 12:21 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: ten left thumbs]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Originally Posted By: R0B
thought the topic title looked interesting, so clicked on it.

Now I am losing the will to live!




Is this sarcasm? It's so awful!! The whole first page is nonsense! Hope it didn't make me get less views.


Is that what this is all about? Getting views?


No? I want more responses!!! Like....key strings. I've seen such great threads full of stuff that helps the OP ... I want one, it'll help.

Threads get neglected sometimes, I feel like I'm in peril. Are there really people stupid enough who would look for more views and nothing else?


Edited by Musiqientist (04/26/13 12:22 PM)
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#2071490 - 04/26/13 12:23 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: ezpiano.org]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
I think you should stop trying to "read your teacher's mind"


thumb Like


By what? MAKING THREADS? Lol

I can't, I need to know what's going on. And I can't tell her, she's probably deliberately keeping in the dark so...


Edited by Musiqientist (04/26/13 12:24 PM)
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#2071493 - 04/26/13 12:25 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: rocket88]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: rocket88
What an awesome thread!


Why...
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#2071501 - 04/26/13 12:35 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
albynism Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 321
You are already getting good replies here and over at the other forum. But let me tell you a story,

I have a teacher similar to yours, she never praise me and I always tried to impress her every lesson. I thought that I am the most advance student in her class. Then the student recital came, and indeed I was the most advance student who gets to play last and has the most difficult pieces. to cut the story short I gave the most disastrous performance out of her entire students, I glanced behind me as soon as I "finish" and she covered her face with her hands. I was so embarassed I went home and locked myself in my room the entire day, my reputation of her model student is tarnished. Next lesson she goes, hmm your performance... It was interesting.. but at least we know now what we need to work on. From then on I stopped trying to impress my teacher, break down my barrier, and really just play and try to show all my weaknesses so she can correct them. all my nervousness playing in front of her has disappear, she knows what my level is and everything is now transparent. I recently performed again in a competition (after much hesitation) and won second place.

She is still an enigmatic lady. But I don't care anymore, I'm paying her to learn to improve my playing, what she thinks of me is not of importance.

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#2071526 - 04/26/13 01:04 PM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
Whizbang Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
But I need to know if I can make it!


Unfortunately, you don't get to know that.

Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Originally Posted By: Whizbang
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
But I need to know if I can make it! Instead I'm scared of her and don't know if she knows anything and if she doesn't then she doesn't care but i don't know that either! Do you think the chemistry is wrong? The only thing that would say that the chemistry is wrong is that I'm nervous. That's all. I think it's me. There's no apparent reason for me to be like this around her. I think it's the cutting things she's said, they say all the best teachers in a conservatory say such things anyways. I don't know if she supports me. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Before I say anything more, can you answer me this question: "Is your ultimate aim to become a professional musician?"

I want to double major in piano performance and biophysics which is my current major and then after that hopefully enter a major conservatory. After that, hopefully get to perform.


Okay, before reading on, sit down, chill out, and put on your more rational and dispassionate frame of mind. Because you'll need that to figure out what you should be really doing.

It's hard to know where the truth lies, in that there are two sides to every story. We're hearing your side and also drawing impressions about you from the way you are telling your side.

I'm not a professional, but I gather it's a difficult row to hoe.

I don't like the teacher-student dynamic that you've described, and if you were just intending to ultimately play for pleasure, I would categorize it as dysfunctional.

Putting the best possible spin on the dynamic you've described, I would say that your teacher is showing tough love. Your posts come off as incredibly insecure. Maybe I'm projecting too much of my own personality into what I'm reading.

Thing is, as a performer, you don't get the luxury of being insecure. Well, that's not quite right. You can be an insecure wreck, but in public and professionally, you need to project confidence. You've got to convince whoever is going to hire you or represent you as an artist or promote you that you are the real deal, that you've got chops, and that you can sell your music. If you don't seem confident in yourself, how the heck can you expect other people to be confident in you?

Furthermore, your inner critic is going to always be nagging away. Even if you perform smashingly, it'll tell you, "Well, they didn't really like that; they're just being polite." For at least a while, you're NOT going to know whether you'll make it and you're NOT going to know whether people like your music, and, in the meantime, this means 1) work like heck on your chops and musicality and 2) fake confidence until you make it. It means performing with self-confidence even if in your heart of hearts you think everyone hates your music.

Looking at your teacher's actions in the best light, her telling you "If you quit for a while, I won't take you back" is a way of saying "The world isn't going to consider it a great tragedy if you give up piano and come back two weeks later and go 'Musiqientist, we were wrong to let you quit! Come back, come back...'" The world will just move on to something else. If you're going after a career as a performer, then you have to pursue it under your own volition and in the face of many, many things to get discouraged about. And, in the context of a career, if you, say, canceled a scheduled gig because you weren't feeling motivated, would the folks putting up the money for publicity and the venue be at all interested in giving you a second chance?

In short, you need to man up.

This means working really hard on your chops. It means listening to your teacher's guidance. It means going into your lessons -welcoming- criticisms and nitpicking. It means not giving up, and it means picking yourself up after you fall. Every time you fall.

Given all the above, it's possible that this teacher may not be the right fit for you, at which point a certain calculus enters the equation.

Will having studied under this teacher and earned a recommendation from this teacher help you get into the conservatory of your choice? If you were to alienate this teacher, would it harm your chances of getting into the conservatory of your choice? If it is a poor fit, will you be able to develop the technique and musicality you need to become a professional musician?

To be a professional, you quite simply need to own it.
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Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist

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#2071923 - 04/27/13 02:39 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: keystring
Well, you asked for it to be posted here. wink It's much easier to read in the original link.

Musiquentist, could you go back and edit the first of your quoting posts to make it more reasonable? If you click "Switch to Full Reply Screen" you will get options such as bolding, italics, and even colour. You could replace the words "quote" by creating actual quotes etc. As it is, it's close to unreadable.


YOU SPELLED MY NAME WRONG YOU-
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#2071924 - 04/27/13 02:58 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: Musiqientist]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1023
Loc: Irvine, CA
That is okay, I spelled people's name wrong all the time.
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http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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#2071927 - 04/27/13 03:17 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: keystring
You seem to have a very high regard for this teacher which places her really high, and you very low in value - one form that respect can take. Your main problem is that you are intimidated by this teacher. You want very badly to gain her approval, but when there is any positive word it is mitigated by things like "finally" which suggest a criticism. So you can't get the approval, and it keeps you on edge. You try to play perfectly in front of her, not show mistakes. You will also not open up to this teacher and talk about what is bothering you, because of the risk of disapproval - which is what you are avoiding everywhere in the first place.


Yes, it's accurate. But I think that it's due to some sort of misunderstanding that occurred which I cannot remember due to multiple complications having taken place in my life in a very short period of time. So I'm confused. I think I feel that I must gain her approval if she is not giving it and is not purposefully refusing to give it...than why am I not getting it?


Quote:
Since you wrote that you have improved a lot since going to her, did you study with another teacher before? So you are not a beginner, but more like an intermediate student or beyond? How many years have you studied piano - what kinds of things have you reached, and what kinds of things does this teacher want of you?


I had one teacher previously, I don't think I'm beginner. I don't know what she wants. I do my best to cover what she wants which is a lot. When I make it, she usually doesn't respond. If not shell just critique this and that. She should know that my work ethic would improve if she was frank. She's very into certain traditional ways of doing things, she's more into what's right than what makes more progress at times. She thinks that if I don't fit into the correct mold than I'm doing something wrong.

Quote:
Change your goal from trying to please the teacher, to trying to grow as a musician. This does two things. It changes your relationship with this teacher instantly. It means you are working on the same thing (your progress), collaborating, and she is essentially working for you. It also means you have aligned your goals: her goal is to raise your playing abilities, and yours is too. It also changes this feeling of being judged and falling short. This is also the attitude that most good teachers are looking for. They don't want their students to "please" them. They want their students to take their studies seriously. (Which you do - but the wanting to please is getting in the way).


I do try to grow as a musician and I think it's going fantastic in one year. I sometimes think I need to cut music research and add it to practice time! Lol I just long for something more, someone to share with. She's the only one that seems to fit that. Maybe I'm just lonely! I'll actually add that I have no friends. Rofl.

..but I want to make her happy! Yes that's true, but I think maybe they like it when their students want to please them because that means they'll take things seriously. We are collaborating great, she's smart enough to...mess with me on the sidelines without harming communication. I'm beginning to piece it all together though.

She's essentially working for me but I mean... I'm not an adult yet so I can't just go like "I'm paying so..." I mean some hint of that messes it all up. Is she doing anything unusual?

Quote:
But in piano, you can miss the trill or flub the note regardless of how hard you practised. And that is expected.

Again, if you shift your purpose from pleasing the teacher to perfecting the skill, then your attention will be 100% on the task which will automatically improve your playing. You almost have to "ignore" the teacher as if she were not important, in order to achieve what you both want - better playing.


Yes, sometimes she also says "no mistakes this time." But that might just be because I, a student.

I'm going to try multiple things starting very soon just to see how she'll react which I, very excited about. wink

Quote:
Your teacher's apparent dissatisfaction may reflect how she works on music herself, if she is a good musician. No matter how well you bring your music, you can always bring it a bit higher, and she may have that attitude toward her other music project - your growth. Of course there is another principle: you can "perfect" things too much and spoil them - know when to stop. Like, you can intimidate your student by going too far. But in some teaching philosophies, keeping a student on edge and slightly scared of not being good enough might actually be a strategy to get them to do especially well and thank the teacher later in hindsight. I don't know if I agree with that, but it does exist.


Yeah, this makes perfect sense. Sounds like her. When she's practicing something to perform she's particularly energized and tells me all about it and she stays very focused through the whole lesson.
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#2071928 - 04/27/13 03:18 AM Re: Help me read my teachers mind. [Re: ezpiano.org]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
That is okay, I spelled people's name wrong all the time.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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