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No idea, I had the same question! If it's "comping" perhaps it's an intended effect.

And yes comping just doesn't pertain to jazz. It's often referred to in RnB, funk, blues, gospel, rock and pop. It is a jazz based term though, and usually those who use that term in styles outside of jazz most often have some kind of jazz background or training at one time in their life.

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Rolands started developing the metallic twang effect problem after the RD-600, when they went up to the 700 series and SRX. That's also around the same time their actions got really good I thought, the original RD700 key balance was very good. People commented about the hollowness of the sample when they went from MKS-20 tech to JV, but JV was warm and never had a twang even if less dense that MK. I was watching a relatively recent live Procal Harum DVD with Gary Brooker using a RD600 (which I owned)and it still retained warmth ... it was the switch to SRX when it started. anybody else experience that... It was almost unbearable on the original VR760 piano unless you could keep the gain low in louder gigs that I wouldn't characterize as too loud either...

With the FP4/7 I thought things changed, the tone was fuller, richer like a Yamaha and full sampling made a big difference..and their actions just got better..and it behaved better level wise and was more 'locked down'.

I still like Yamahas though, Like where I truly think Ferris is at (truly), is that you can play them pretty robustly and their dynamics are always in the zone. Their 'locked down' bandwidth wise which is broader than Rolands I think, EQ better too. Have a lot of punch when kicked (and something else also?)...depends how you play. I find them very reliable DP's sonically.

Rolands SN has more veneer and a balanced playability with a very hot articulated type of sample... depends on how you play, what you like ... a more elegant axe.

Yamahas have a tendency when not amplified right to sound boxy, so there you go...

I always rationalized the R twang phenomenon as a synth. 101 problem. 'Possible' higher partial distortion, maybe in the sample and maybe not on sone high vel. layer samples (real pianos can have that metallic component at ff and above) coupled with a very hot keybend sensor scheme pushing the filter envelope too hot or at to fast a rate (velocity issue). They are getting a heck of a lot right though in the balancing act and it responds well with their keybeds but it's not completely balanced somewhere with some notes.

Yes it definitely depends how and what you are playing. Whilst it is a generalisation I think the Roland suits a softer, ballad, romantic or introspective style. Lower velocities just don't provoke the twanging at all. Then there's nothing to distract from the darkish, European tone, the more-or-less seamless velocity layers and of course the unlooped, fairly natural sounding decay.

Personally, now I'm exploring my Yamaha CP1 I'm finding that the Yamaha really allows you to explore chord voicing. You can pick out particular notes within a chord and accent them. The Roland is muddy by comparison. With all the "technical" limitations of the Yamaha I would still say that nothing else has such a combination of musicality and articulation. There's precision without being clinical or cold.

Horses for courses...

Despite the distortion , in my opinion (I repeat) the SN sound is the best out there and the keyboard is excellent giving an overall very satisfying playing experience. To those who say the distortion is actually an 'effect' then why would it occur in different keys on on other pianos? And maybe the distortion is not as bad on some pianos. But as I said, after fooling around with the transpose function on my fp-80 the distortion was greatly reduced when transpose was returned to normal setting and it remains so. I would suggest this route for owners of fp-80 with strong distortion to see if it fixes the problem for them.

Sorry if I pick up an old topic of this thread, but reading the thread again I somehow got nervous that the quality difference of the keybeds of an HP in comparison to an FP could get lost:



The Feel-G, Feel-S, PHA-II and PHA-III all feel different. You can test it easily in a direct comparison with the DPs being switched off. I once did it, and became convinced that in mentioned order they mature from wobbly to soundly stable. This mechancial felt difference then of course results in a correspondingly increasing better "final feedback the player receives". An enhanced speaker system does not solely cause this impression, but on its own improves again an all over impression.

Hi Marco,

I think that the difference in touch between Ivory-Feel S and PHA-III has as much to do with the cabinet it is build-in as with the keys themselves. Feel-S and PHA-III are structurally the same and I believe the difference is indeed only the two layered plastic that is use - just for the fake wooden view on the sides. It would be interesting to be able to test them in the same cabinet , however that is not possible. A stage model FP-80 and home model HP-507 have much structural difference in the hardware cabinet that supports the keybed. My impression is , with other brands as well , that this has an influence on how tight the keybed is and how it feels. More than IMHO the structural difference between PHA-III and PHA-III-S . Have you tried the PHA-III on an RD700NX / HP model , or both ? And the Ivory-S; FP-80 ?

For comparison try a Casio PX-150 and PX-850 side by side. Same keybed - different feel.

Yes, I do believe that the cabinet and also the stand the unit is mounted on can have an influence. I in June most likely will have the chance to another time abroad get access to a wide variety of DPs in a huge store and I will check again...
... I am very curious how my impressions (on everything, not just the keybed) changed after a year.

This is true, but I wonder how much of this is perception vs actual and to what extent. I mean true lab testing would ultimately be the best way to confirm these things and eliminate all kinds of variables but at the end of the day you are happy. Hopefully I will be too, picking mine up later today so will have some time to play it tonight.

Good in store review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZp2sDDnMUw

Just to inform you:

It is not possible to save the Piano Designer edits in the Registers.
That means once you edit and save your designed piano into memory, that's it. It is not possible to compare or play the different pianos you've edited. I was hoping on making different character style sounding pianos to be switched in the registry.

Also, the Piano Designer has always influence on all three first Pianos : Concert, Ballade and Bright. Meaning: any changes made will affect all of these.

Just wanted to share my discoveries...

Unfortunatly, you are completely right...
I made the same discovery today
while I wanted also to compare settings..
At the end, it does not disturb me so much as the piano design settings reflect the way I want the piano behaves and sound..whatever is the preset I am using.
(however, it would have been a nice "goodies" to tweak settings per type of music you play..)

I am loving more and more this DP as I can tweak it exactly as I want, and it responds perfectly to all my solicitations (much more than the NU1 which lacks a little of dynamism)

Weird. Strange they don't let you edit the designer settings for each preset and save it, but that the designer parameters are affecting ALL SN piano presets. Sort of a master setting , like a master EQ on the final output. Wonder what the reason is an if it can be "fixed" in a firmware update. Also wonder if this is also valid for the RD700NX (designer settings affects ALL AP SN sounds).

Happy to hear it from someone else, Enzo. I was starting to doubt myself.
You are right, it is so much fun to play this instrument. And truly, I can live with the way it works - it just would have been nice.

I copy here my review from the parallel topic in order to get everything about these DP in on place...


Hello
I have just received the roland FP 80 today for replacing my Casio PX-350
I wanted another stage DP than the Casio fro serveral reasons:
I liked the Casio keybed, but
- I did not like the sound: the piano sound and the EP sounds as well.
- and I had big trouble in getting a correct dynamic response from this DP : it goes to "quickly" from inaudible to extremely loud sound..really really difficult to tame (and really not like a real piano, as I also take my lessons on real upright)
Using VST solved all these issues (letting the major advantage of the Casio : weight for gigging and keybed)
But as I wanted to have a Piano sound that I can tame and appreciate also when gigging, I have decided to go for the Roland (as I formerly owned an HP307)
And I can say that this DP is quite impressive
The Piano sound is really really good, and I also prefer the keybed which is firmer (and more like the upright I also play)
The EP sound and Organ sound are also really good (far better than the Casio)
the sound system are quite impressive as they give really good result with the internal speaker (I used to connect the Casio to external monitors as the internal speaker where quite bad..but here with the Roland, it is not mandatory)

I also own a Yamaha NU1, and I found the Roland a good companion to my NU1 as it is "different" but close in quality, but the NU1 keybed is better, but more difficult to play.
I use my NU1 to practice my classical works, and the Roland for Jazz, Pop, Rock music.
The only drawback I can see to the Roland is...the weight..
It is damned heavy compared to the casio...

If you have question or want more details for comparing these 3 DP I am talking about here, don't hesitate

Cheers

Thanks, Enzo.
I linked it in the OP anyway.

To the FP-50 users:
It would be nice to hear your inputs!

Why is the USB port in the back? On my FP-7 it's in the front which makes much more sense (or does the FP-80 have front & back ports?).

I've always been surprised at how many boards put their headphone jacks in the back, it's obviously the "wrong" place. It's more difficult to plug it in, you have to take more care to route the wire out of your way while playing. It's not like you're ever listening from that side of the board. I guess it's just sometimes cheaper to make it that way.

The headphone Jack is on the front, but the USB plug is on the back...