Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
113 registered (ABC Vermonter, AndyP, Anne H, Alux, ando, 36251, 26 invisible), 1472 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2071847 - 04/26/13 11:11 PM Interesting old Kimball action
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2505
Loc: Olympia, WA
Today I serviced a 1880's Kimball (serial # 1233). It was unlike other old Kimball pianos I have seen: It no brass parts. The backchecks are grand style, and it has a strange spring that extends from the bass of the hammer shank to a slot in the catcher. I can't for the life of me figure out what this spring can possibly do. Any ideas?

One theory that just dawned on me is this: did the springs originally stick out beyond the catcher and interface with the top of the backcheck? That could potentially have an effect on repetition. Maybe a technician in the past cut them off because they were causing problems.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
(ad PTG 757) The Value of PTG Membership
The Value of a PTG Membership
#2071852 - 04/26/13 11:26 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2423
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I think the back-checks have marks that show the spring ends touched the top of the check.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2071855 - 04/26/13 11:30 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21925
Loc: Oakland
Are there patent numbers on the piano? Looking them up is often a good way to get information about strange piano designs.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2071873 - 04/27/13 12:04 AM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2505
Loc: Olympia, WA
The piano was lacking the usual patent numbers - the plate was very nondescript.


Edited by rysowers (04/27/13 12:07 AM)
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2071968 - 04/27/13 07:14 AM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5327
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Yes, the springs were originally longer and did contact the tops of the backchecks after the key had been played and the action was in check. When the key was released the spring pushed the backcheck down and the hammerbutt up. A kind of repetition function.

I've only seen one other action like this -- probably a Kimball but I don't remember for sure -- and it was in pretty poor condition. (The whole piano was in pretty poor condition.) The hammers bounced and "bobbled" quite a lot. I don't know if fussing around with the regulation would have helped or not.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2072024 - 04/27/13 09:51 AM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 389
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
Some early Smith Barnes upright actions are smiliar to this as well. For about a two year spanse of time pre 1900
_________________________
J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation

Top
#2072358 - 04/27/13 06:54 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
It is interesting to note the buckskin to buckskin (check - catcher). This enables more secure checking, which was probably needed with this spring set-up.

I have a grand piano which has a similar thing (without the spring) - regular backchecks, but buckskin covered hammer tails.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
#2072384 - 04/27/13 07:48 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
This is an action which I have never seen.

The lost-motion compensator which was used on a few old upright designs to get rid of lost motion when the half-blow pedal was used is another oddity.

This repetition assistance spring may have cost even more than some of the compensator systems: custom butt milling, custom catcher milling, grand type back check, bushing work, custom spring, and an extra regulation step which was probably easy to do, ONCE YOU HAD DONE IT A FEW DOZEN TIMES. I suppose the cost factor comparison would depend on the maker, because I have seen a few compensators which were really well made and were adjustable note-by-note, if one wanted to be really picky.

The cost/benefit reactions of real world production and marketing must have said, "Nahhhh!" to both systems. That no-thank-you must have been really quick on this Kimball one, though.
_________________________
Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

Top
#2072408 - 04/27/13 08:23 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2505
Loc: Olympia, WA
Its too bad that someone clipped the springs. I would have liked to see how it worked!
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2072432 - 04/27/13 09:15 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5327
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: rysowers
Its too bad that someone clipped the springs. I would have liked to see how it worked!

Yes, it is too bad. As I say, the only one I've seen was on a piano that was pretty well trashed in every respect. The springs were intact, though.

So many of these kinds of ideas have been lost because some technician along the way couldn't be bothered to figure out how they worked and actually work with them. It's easier to just whack it up and get it out of the way.

If you're into making springs it shouldn't be all that difficult to make a few just to see how the feature worked.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2072669 - 04/28/13 07:57 AM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: Del]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: rysowers
Its too bad that someone clipped the springs. I would have liked to see how it worked!

Yes, it is too bad. As I say, the only one I've seen was on a piano that was pretty well trashed in every respect. The springs were intact, though.

So many of these kinds of ideas have been lost because some technician along the way couldn't be bothered to figure out how they worked and actually work with them. It's easier to just whack it up and get it out of the way.

If you're into making springs it shouldn't be all that difficult to make a few just to see how the feature worked.

ddf


Years ago I bought a spring maker from the old American Piano Supply Co (APSCO). One of the best tools I ever bought! I wonder if Schaff continued the product when they bought American. Worth a shot.

Easy to use, and as Del said, you will be able to make a few springs to try them out. Last time I used mine was to make a bunch of springs to replace broken ones on an old concertina (accordion-like instrument, but smaller).
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

Top
#2072761 - 04/28/13 11:10 AM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
I can't log onto Schaff's webstore at the moment, but when I last looked, they still sold a (universal) spring maker. I've never seen any instruction on how to use it, though.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

Top
#2072783 - 04/28/13 12:21 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: rysowers
Its too bad that someone clipped the springs. I would have liked to see how it worked!
You can very easily modify the action to get the exact effect: simply slip short pieces of narrow-diameter brass tube onto the springs. K&S offers small diameter telescoping tubing in an astonishing variety of sizes.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

Top
#2072884 - 04/28/13 03:11 PM Re: Interesting old Kimball action [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2505
Loc: Olympia, WA
Not a bad idea Jurgen!
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bottom of hammer hitting top of damper on upright
by JoeThePro
12/21/14 10:09 PM
Getting better
by Kekewak
12/21/14 07:35 PM
Pearl River vs. Samick
by Zekk
12/21/14 03:41 PM
Kawai vs. Yamaha: what to choose
by SeeSharp
12/21/14 02:19 PM
Disklavier Pro Alternatives? C5X Value for money?
by bryan77
12/21/14 01:15 PM
Forum Stats
77390 Members
42 Forums
160047 Topics
2350302 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission