Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds
Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds with Emphasis on the Piano
Learn More

Buy This Book on Amazon.com
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Pianoteq
Who's Online
144 registered (ajames, alfredo capurso, Al LaPorte, accordeur, anamnesis, 35 invisible), 1804 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2073949 - 04/30/13 05:59 AM Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt
CanCakmur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Ankara, Turkey
I'm posting Aufenthalt by Schubert(Liszt's transcription) which I played in a student concert. My aim is to complete all Schwanengesang (but this is a very long project). I need your suggestions and comments to improve it. I will also post In Der Ferne in a short time.Thank you.

“Perfection itself is imperfection.”
Vladimir Horowitz

#2075120 - 05/01/13 04:22 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18409
Loc: Victoria, BC
CanCakmur :

Suggestions to improve? I don't think there is much here that can be improved upon; this is a stirring and beautiful performance. You and I have a slightly different idea for the initial tempo - mine would be a shade slower - but that's just a personal preference. This is truly a fine, fine performance of a difficult but beautiful transcription; Liszt at his best in a homage to Schubert that is so faithful to the original.

You seem to be of the school of thought that favours "equalizing" the sixteenth-note after a dotted eighth with the third note of an accompanying triplet. This seems quite reasonable at the tempo you take this transcription; it might be too "fussy" to try to add the sixteenth-notes after the last triplet accompaniment notes.

What would you do in "Wasserflut" (from Winterreise) which also has dotted eighth-notes plus sixteenth-notes grouped over triplets, but where the tempo is much slower? Would you still make the last sixteenth-note coincide with the third triplet? (I know what I would do!) Liszt's notation (in the Edition Musica Budapest) suggests that the sixteenth-note must come after the third triplet note, although it can still be argued that it's a question of performance practice that has never been fully resolved.

Nonetheless : One more word to you : Bravo!

It's exciting to hear someone else who obviously admires Liszt's transcriptions of Schubert; I will be eager to hear your performances of "Abschied", "Liebesbotschaft", and "Die Taubenpost" in particular.

Thank you!
- - - - -
Estonia 190

#2075152 - 05/01/13 05:02 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]
CanCakmur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Ankara, Turkey
Dear BruceD
Thank your so much for your compliments! It is wonderful to hear those words in a such forum. Transcription is a dying art , unfortunately. Today, just that we can hear the originals, it doesn't mean that having other versions is useless.
Abschied is the most difficult probably so I will do it when I have more time. My favourite transcription from Schwanengesang is liebesbotschaft: It is next! And I adore die Taubenpost.

What you mention is the greatest dilemma of the Schubert interpreter! (As you said) smile
Brendel is in favor of playing the last sixteenth note with the last note of the triplet and so is Badura-Skoda. However the latter mentions a slight possibility of the other interpretation. I would follow Brendel and Skoda, I think. And what would you do? ( That is one of my biggest problems in the second movement of Fantasie in f Moll d940)
Again thank you very much!

Edited by CanCakmur (05/01/13 05:14 PM)
“Perfection itself is imperfection.”
Vladimir Horowitz

#2075248 - 05/01/13 08:01 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18409
Loc: Victoria, BC
CanCakmur :

In the "Aufenthalt" which I read through this afternoon, I would most likely plan on doing as you do, i.e. playing the sixteenth-note with the last eighth-note triplet.

However, in "Wasserflut" where the tempo is much slower, I think the tension and the stark drama of the work is much better realized when the sixteenth-note comes after the third triplet.

It all depends on context, and I wouldn't categorically state that one is always right and the other is always wrong. For me, the context determines which option I would use.

- - - - -
Estonia 190

#2075298 - 05/01/13 10:09 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7937
Loc: New York City
We had a discussion regarding this issue on Pianist Corner a while back about the coda of Chopin's 4th Ballade, and a couple passages in the Polonaise-Fantasy Op 61. I think the consensus was that in faster passages, the sixteenth note should be played with the last note of the triplet, otherwise confusion would probably ensue and the values of the notes would likely get distorted in the attempt to carry out the rhythm as written; when the piece is slower, then it's better to make the distinction. (Bruce commented in that thread on several of the Chopin Nocturnes, like the C# minor Op 27 No 1, and in these pieces it is indeed advisable to play it as written.)


#2076098 - 05/02/13 06:46 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6292
Loc: St. Louis area
Very nicely done! You are one busy guy, can I buy some ambition from you? laugh
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

#2076454 - 05/03/13 06:55 AM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: Damon]
CanCakmur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Ankara, Turkey

Thank you very much! Love of these pieces are the ambition itself so help yourself and you have it already laugh
“Perfection itself is imperfection.”
Vladimir Horowitz


Moderator:  Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
Forums Rules & Help
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Brahms Shorter Solo Works - Editions?
by DaveInJapan
20 minutes 9 seconds ago
Thoughts on Sauter Schulpiano
by DavidNYNY
54 minutes 58 seconds ago
Dilemma, Yamaha CP4 or Kawai MP7
by davide_86
Today at 06:24 PM
How to practice piano efficiently...for advanced pianists
by piano_friend
Today at 06:12 PM
Question about accent marks
by J Moore
Today at 05:09 PM
Forum Stats
77902 Members
42 Forums
161001 Topics
2365226 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |

copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission