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A local guitar shop uses hooks shaped like fingers to hold instruments on the walls. The hooks are said to be the fingers of students who did not practice.

I would talk to the parent and then to the child at the next lesson. Give them clear boundaries and enforce them. I think so far you haven't done that and you happened to have some kids that will walk all over them. Most likely the one that doesn't want to play will do whatever it takes to get kicked out, but then you will have done all that you can on your part. This will tell the parent that they shouldn't force their child to play. Let him regret it and perhaps he'll appreciate his teacher more when he returns to piano as an adult learner. Or perhaps it will be the best thing for him to not study piano.

Whilst some of the silly mind games, mentioned above, are amusing, you should not have to stoop to this level.

Forget the 'three strikes' approach, all that does is provide licence to repeat his antics, and simply tell the student that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable, and the next time he shows you dis-respect, you will show him the door.
Sometimes, not having a second chance can work wonders.

Only you can decide how much you are prepared to take, whilst maintaining your own sanity.

Don't get me wrong, I have a reputation amongst my students/parents, for being exceptionally patient, and forgiving.
I have only ever done what I described above, once, but it had to be done.

I think perhaps you misunderstood? Showing him the door is a "strike" and the teacher determines how many times he gets kicked out of a lesson before he's dropped from the studio entirely. Or do you mean by "showing him the door" that he gets dumped from the studio right away?

If you never set rules/boundaries, then is it really fair when a student walks all over them when you've never told them how you wish to be treated in the first place? Common courtesy is not so common, and people need to be taught sometimes how to treat you. This is a teaching moment for the teacher, even if she ends up kicking him out, because then he will be knowingly doing things to test to see if she's serious about this. Personally, I would give him two chances, because usually after getting kicked out once it doesn't happen again, but it depends on the kid, and the most important thing is that the teacher be clear as to what the consequences are, and that she sees them through.

People, not just teachers, vary widely in their ability to deal with a rebellious or difficult child.

For some it has become a natural reflex. They know what to say to bring a child back in line without getting either party upset. Probably this isn't natural, but a skill learned by osmosis watching someone skilled, or from one's own parents if they were good at it, or perhaps in training classes at their work.

Others have to learn it. It's the separation of classroom behavior management from the education process.

It's not that hard a skill to pick up. Watching someone do it right is enormously helpful, if you pay attention.

Using fear to control people isn't right, in my opinion. I mean, jokes are fine, but if students are actually afraid of you, then that's way too far.

Human rights have progressed lots since the 1960s; kids are people too, and anyways, it's not healthy for you or for your students.

Really? On what planet? On planet Earth, it appears to be regressing. Especially here in the USA.

What has worked best for me in dealing with a disrespectful child, is to give them a few warnings. If they persist, simply stop the lesson, tell them they may have a seat nearby, give them their music, and ask that they quietly wait for their parent. Then simply go about your business and ignore them. You may inform the parent or not, depending on circumstances. Usually, the behaviour is not repeated. If it pops up again, simply follow through with your response. I have never had it not work. But I have had the student ask to continue the lesson (on a first offense I may), repeatedly. Once they understand that finished is finished, they realize it's not wise to repeat that behavior.

Fear is just one method of teaching. It doesn't work for the great majority of kids, but for some it just might work. You might not agree with it, but in some countries/cultures fear is still being used in education. And those kids are doing way better than our kids are doing.

I just heard on the radio what Los Angeles Unified is doing with the free breakfast program. It was sheer madness. No wonder kids can't learn.

You'll have to spell this out for us, AZN. Our radios don't all receive that far.

I am female and I am allowed to own a house, a piano, vote, and wear pants. Whipping is not allowed. Residential schools no longer exist. The church is no longer the 'higher power'. The court of law is no longer associated with politics nor the church.

In Canada, you are allowed to exercise your rights and freedoms so long as it does not infringe upon anyone else's rights and/or freedoms.

How are human rights regressing? Of course, it will never be perfect and politics will always be tied to it, but it's progress.

Madness to feed them, or not to feed them? Not sure what you mean. But I'm pretty sure hungry kids don't have their mind on math.

I grew up in a small town in a northern state where most kids were bused in from dairy farms.

These kids were up at 0400 doing brutally hard chores, rode the bus an hour to school, and were expected not just to behave but to concentrate all day.

There was no way most of them could compete. They were exhausted.

Ditto, but I googled.

Google on Los Angeles Unified + breakfast

In addition to the articles online, I can tell you that the callers to the radio show were very diverse in their opinions. One teacher called in to say that the classroom is a place for learning, not eating. Some teachers were acting like waiters and waitresses. Kindergarteners were expected to peel oranges?

One Mom called in to say that it builds "team work" to clean up the spills in class, and that eating together is a "teachable moment." I was rolling on the floor laughing.

I'm not able to follow. Has the breakfast program continued, or has it been cancelled? Is the view that a cancelled breakfast program will hurt learning? Or that a continued breakfast program will hurt learning?

By the way, what is the earliest kindergarten age down there?

Fear worked quite well in my growing up years. My dad said if I quit practicing, he would sell the piano, and I really believed he might do that!

That's a different type of fear-- you weren't in fear of bodily harm, it's more of a worry. ; )

The trick to not letting someone (child or adult) get under your skin is paying attention to what YOU tell YOURSELF about their behavior.

"They don't appreciate me etc." is guaranteed to make one feel bad.


"They sure are behaving oddly", which puts the focus on THEM, helps one keep a distance and deal with the behavior.

cognitive behavioral strategy...no charge!!

I guess you can choose to live in your fantasy world and I'll live in mine. After 20 years of living in Germany, returning to the USA, we couldn't believe how lewd and crude it had become. Telling stories to motivate, getting students to recognize their boorish behavior is not violating their "human rights" what ever that might be, but rather to recognize that a form of inappropriate behavior, is, well, unacceptable not only in public but in private as well.

BTW, your statement: is only partly true. But this is not a political forum, so this will be my last post on the subject, and you can have the last word.

Thank you for the free therapy.

OT: It came in useful this evening as I'm feeling peeved over a parent's behavior. You're right. It is important to notice what I'm telling myself about the behavior. And change that.