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#2075889 - 05/02/13 12:50 PM Favorite piano work ....
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
whose title begins with the letter "M" written by a composer between the ages of 30 and 40 while on vacation in Russia?

Favorite piano composition with an opus number that is an even prime number greater than 2?

Favorite piano composition originally written for two kazoos?

Favorite Bach transcription of a work by Debussy?

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#2075901 - 05/02/13 01:15 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 122
'Who cares?'

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#2075910 - 05/02/13 01:29 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Just because you don't like novel threads doesn't mean you have to mock them.

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#2075928 - 05/02/13 02:18 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: JoelW]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Just because you don't like novel threads doesn't mean you have to mock them.


Yes he does. This is the *internet*

laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2075953 - 05/02/13 02:48 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Kreisler]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Just because you don't like novel threads doesn't mean you have to mock them.


Yes he does. This is the *internet*

laugh


This is typical of pianoloverus, and honestly, I often get a chuckle when I see his "joke" threads like this smile

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#2075995 - 05/02/13 03:39 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Goomer Piles]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Goomer Piles
'Who cares?'
Great song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW9YGRA63II

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#2076006 - 05/02/13 03:57 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4854
Answers:

1) Måî V∫âst by Bøhislâv Smétinä

2) øbviously a mîshtakë by PL, as any even number greater than two is divisible by 2 (= 'two'). So, let's correct it to the prime number after 2, i.e., 3. It will have to be Rachmaninoff's Morceaux de fantaisie.

3) Deux kazooræ, Op.2 by A. Kangarøö (1913 - 2013)

4) Prélude à l'après-midi d'un Göldfisch

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#2076011 - 05/02/13 04:07 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: bennevis]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Answers:2) øbviously a mishtake by PL, as any even number greater than two is divisible by 2 (=two). So, let's correct it to the prime number after 2, i.e., 3. It will have to be Rachmaninoff's Morceaux de fantaisie.

Can I switch to a prime number less than two? I don't care if it's even or odd or... anything???


Edited by pianoloverus (05/02/13 04:19 PM)

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#2076013 - 05/02/13 04:09 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
1. Mussorgsky's Moustache: A Romantic Tour by Chabrier

2. I am not sure that there are even prime numbers greater than two

3. I'm going to say the piano transcription of Mozart's Bassoon Concerto, as the bassoon is clearly the instrument which most imitates the kazoo aurally. Especially the French "grande kazoo" which is nearly identical to the bassoon for all practical purposes.

4. There's actually a lesser known Bach Variations on the Debussy Variations on the Reger Bach Variations. Then Busoni actually did a variation on that. It just sounded like beeping noises after everyone was done. Then John Cage performed it.

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#2076021 - 05/02/13 04:20 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: mermilylumpkin]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin

2. I am not sure that there are even prime numbers greater than two

There aren't. I almost made the mistake of correcting him too, until I realized he's a retired math teacher. So it's no mistake. He's simply having fun with us.

Since he has nothing but contempt for emoticons, Plover will never "lead" you to his humor. You either tumble upon it yourself, or you don't.

And the many who "don't" have gotten unjustifiably PO'd at him. grin

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#2076045 - 05/02/13 04:56 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Can I switch to a prime number less than two? I don't care if it's even or odd or... anything???

More bait, folks. Don't bite. "Prime numbers greater than 5, ending in 5" may well be next on the menu. laugh

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#2076060 - 05/02/13 05:18 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Old Man]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4854
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944...

(sorry, just been watching Life of π - great movie! wink )

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#2076081 - 05/02/13 06:08 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Loc: New York City
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)

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#2076089 - 05/02/13 06:28 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4854
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)


Because one can arbitrarily include any number of copies of 1 in any factorization - e.g. 5, 5x1, 5x1x1, 5x1x1x1 etc are all valid factorizations of 5. Therefore, 1 has to be uniquely excluded as a prime number.

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#2076097 - 05/02/13 06:46 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: bennevis]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)


Because one can arbitrarily include any number of copies of 1 in any factorization - e.g. 5, 5x1, 5x1x1, 5x1x1x1 etc are all valid factorizations of 5. Therefore, 1 has to be uniquely excluded as a prime number.
That is not my understanding of the correct answer although I am only going by what one professor told me a long time ago. (I don't see how it's related to my point about the main idea of a prime number.)

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#2076103 - 05/02/13 06:58 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3728
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)


Because one can arbitrarily include any number of copies of 1 in any factorization - e.g. 5, 5x1, 5x1x1, 5x1x1x1 etc are all valid factorizations of 5. Therefore, 1 has to be uniquely excluded as a prime number.
That is not my understanding of the correct answer although I am only going by what one professor told me a long time ago. (I don't see how it's related to my point about the main idea of a prime number.)


bennevis's response is basically exactly right.

The question of whether to consider 1 a prime is, in once sense, arbitrary. If we define a prime to be "any integer > 0 whose factors are 1 and itself", then 1 is a prime. If we define a prime to be "any integer > 1 whose factors are 1 and itself", then 1 is not a prime.

Mathematicians have chosen the second definition. Why did they do that?

The answer is that if 1 were a prime, then the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic, which states that any positive number can be uniquely decomposed into a product of primes, wouldn't be true. The "unique" part would break. The corrected statement of that theorem would become less elegant.

And the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is so important that mathematicians decided it should have a simple and elegant statement!

(Source: I'm a mathematician! smile )

-Jason

p.s. the first three google hits under "why isn't 1 a prime number" corroborate this reason; two of them mention the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic by name!
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#2076113 - 05/02/13 07:14 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: beet31425]
pianoloverus Offline
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: beet31425
bennevis's response is basically exactly right.

The question of whether to consider 1 a prime is, in once sense, arbitrary. If we define a prime to be "any integer > 0 whose factors are 1 and itself", then 1 is a prime. If we define a prime to be "any integer > 1 whose factors are 1 and itself", then 1 is not a prime.

Mathematicians have chosen the second definition. Why did they do that?

The answer is that if 1 were a prime, then the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic, which states that any positive number can be uniquely decomposed into a product of primes, wouldn't be true. The "unique" part would break. The corrected statement of that theorem would become less elegant.

And the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is so important that mathematicians decided it should have a simple and elegant statement!

(Source: I'm a mathematician! smile )

-Jason

p.s. the first three google hits under "why isn't 1 a prime number" corroborate this reason; two of them mention the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic by name!
This sounds much more like(or exactly like) what the professor told me. He said that if 1 was included in the primes than many theorems from number theory(like the one you mentioned, for example)would have to say this is true for all prime numbers except 1.

Are there other relatively basic number theory theorems besides the one you mentioned that would need a disclaimer if 1 was a prime?



Edited by pianoloverus (05/02/13 07:18 PM)

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#2076158 - 05/02/13 08:45 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7518
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)


Because one can arbitrarily include any number of copies of 1 in any factorization - e.g. 5, 5x1, 5x1x1, 5x1x1x1 etc are all valid factorizations of 5. Therefore, 1 has to be uniquely excluded as a prime number.
That is not my understanding of the correct answer although I am only going by what one professor told me a long time ago. (I don't see how it's related to my point about the main idea of a prime number.)

It's correct - at least that's how I learned it. ha
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2076179 - 05/02/13 09:07 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Who knows why 1 is not a prime even though its only divisors are itself and 1(the basic idea of a prime number)? (Seems like a perfectly good question on a piano forum)


Because one can arbitrarily include any number of copies of 1 in any factorization - e.g. 5, 5x1, 5x1x1, 5x1x1x1 etc are all valid factorizations of 5. Therefore, 1 has to be uniquely excluded as a prime number.
That is not my understanding of the correct answer although I am only going by what one professor told me a long time ago. (I don't see how it's related to my point about the main idea of a prime number.)

It's correct - at least that's how I learned it. ha
Apparently you didn't even read my previous post. Without mentioning that the different factorizations of 5 given would contradict to the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra the example is not particularly relevant or at best unclear.

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#2076182 - 05/02/13 09:16 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Alkan Funeral March on the Death of a Parrot.

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#2076401 - 05/03/13 02:49 AM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Didn't John Cleese do a gag about a parrot ...
as I remember he nailed the dead bird to the perch in it's cage ...
a bit of chicanery to be able to sell the smelly thing.

Alkan came later.

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#2076778 - 05/03/13 05:33 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 552
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Favorite piano composition with an opus number that is an even prime number greater than 2?

laugh
I have another:
Favorite piano composition by a composer who owned a Yamaha piano built in 1886?
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2076784 - 05/03/13 05:43 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: pianoloverus]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7518
Loc: New York City
Or, favorite piano composition by a Yamaha piano who owned a composer built in 1886.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2076787 - 05/03/13 05:49 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Polyphonist]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 552
Loc: Germany
OR:
Favorite piano composition without piano?
Click to reveal..
only forte
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2076793 - 05/03/13 05:56 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: patH]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7518
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: patH
OR:
Favorite piano composition without piano, only forte?

Chopin 40/1. (I don't know of any others. grin)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2076853 - 05/03/13 08:42 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: btb]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
Originally Posted By: btb
Didn't John Cleese do a gag about a parrot ...
as I remember he nailed the dead bird to the perch in it's cage ...
a bit of chicanery to be able to sell the smelly thing.

Alkan came later.


Hahaha, I would LOVE if those two things were related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE

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#2076856 - 05/03/13 08:47 PM Re: Favorite piano work .... [Re: Orange Soda King]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6080
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Alkan Funeral March on the Death of a Parrot.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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