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#2075512 - 05/02/13 01:58 AM Underrated and overrated pianists?
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4149
Overrated: Valentina Lisitsa

Underrated: Ingrid Fliter

Who do YOU think is over/underrated?


Edited by JoelW (05/02/13 02:05 AM)

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#2075514 - 05/02/13 02:00 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
So?
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BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#2075517 - 05/02/13 02:01 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6352
Loc: New York City
Joel - come back to our thread! We need you! laugh

Valentina, a bit, yes. Lang Lang is much more overrated, though.
_________________________
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Polyphonist

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#2075520 - 05/02/13 02:02 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: BruceD]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4149
Originally Posted By: BruceD
So?


I guess I should make an edit.

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#2075522 - 05/02/13 02:03 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4149
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Joel - come back to our thread! We need you! laugh

Valentina, a bit, yes. Lang Lang is much more overrated, though.


Definitely, but that was too obvious! Haha.

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#2075525 - 05/02/13 02:04 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
BDB Offline
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Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20749
Loc: Oakland
Few things are so overrated as rating pianists.
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#2075702 - 05/02/13 08:38 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: BDB]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1652
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: BDB
Few things are so overrated as rating pianists.


thumb +1

One person's meat is another man's poison.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#2075724 - 05/02/13 09:17 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
Underrated(meaning not mentioned much at PW but terrific pianists IMO): Kobrin, Achucarro, Annie Fischer, Biret, Conrad Tao, Dong Hyek Lim, Feinberg, Fiorentino, Hae Sun Paik, Janina Fialkowska, Novaes, Maria Tipo, Jonathan Plowright, Gregory Ginsburg, and countless others.

In general I think far too small a number of pianists are discussed at PW. It's as if the entire realm of pianists consisted of 20 or so pianists like Horowitz, Richter, Sokolov,etc. In reality I think there are several hundred pianists well worth listening to.

Same thing for discussion of composers at PW. As great as Chopin is, I get the impression that some PW posters devote 90% of their listening and discussion to Chopin.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/02/13 09:19 AM)

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#2075760 - 05/02/13 10:07 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
erichlof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 358
Lang Lang and...
Lang Lang

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#2075772 - 05/02/13 10:29 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 511
Loc: Germany
Overrated IMO: Glenn Gould.
Underrated: Any great pianist not widely known.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2075776 - 05/02/13 10:40 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
In the recent biography of Adele aus der Ohe there is an interesting quote from a n 1899 article in the New York Times:

It does not really matter who is the greatest living pianist. The only question is who is worth hearing? And Mr. Paderewski is not the only one. The American habit is to try and found out who is the best and then refuse to hear any other. It is a remnant of our Yankee origin, this habit, for it is only an attempt to save money.

Every artist, who has risen to sufficient distinction to claim public attention has something which none of the others have...You may go to hear every pianist in the world except d'Albert without hearing what d'Albert will play to you...No man would say hat Mr. Mansfield's Richard II was enough. He would ask you if you had seen Edwin Booth....

Adele aus der Ohe does not play the Emperor Concerto as d'Albert plays it, but that is nor reason why you should not hear both. Neither of these artists exhausts Beethoven. That is one of the lovely things about works of genius....


Edited by pianoloverus (05/02/13 10:40 AM)

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#2075821 - 05/02/13 11:16 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
That's a wonderful quote Pianoloverus.

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#2076645 - 05/03/13 01:01 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Organist Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/18/13
Posts: 4
Loc: United Kingdom
Zoltán Kocsis is underrated.

Horowitz and Richter are overrated.


Edited by Organist (05/03/13 01:05 PM)
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#2076661 - 05/03/13 01:20 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1457
Underrated: Natan Brand
Dianne Yoffe
Geza Anda
Eric Heidesick
Bruce Hungerford
Wael Farouk


Edited by Opus_Maximus (05/03/13 01:22 PM)

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#2076689 - 05/03/13 02:24 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Underrated:
Anton Nel
Andre Laplante
Lee Luvisi
Zoltan Kocsis
Kun-Woo Paik
Sergio Fiorentino
Rudolf Firkusny
Koji Attwood smile

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#2076697 - 05/03/13 02:34 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 706
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I think the underrated list is quite large. The sad fact is that a huge number of really great artists never make it to the limelight.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2076781 - 05/03/13 05:38 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 338
Loc: Poland
To the question should be added: dead or alive laugh

Somebody wrote hear Idil Biret as underrated o_O
I have few Chopin CD's of her (each of them i got from somebody) and these are the worst Chopin interpretations I have in my entire colletions. To be honest, I cannot listen to them.

Underrated:
Boris Giltburg
Simon Trpceski
Earl Wild - I think it's too less of talks about him than should be
Piotr Anderszewski
Arthur Schoonderwoerd
Polina Leschenko - I found by accident on youtube and... got love in her playing. Listen to the 6th Liszt - Paganinty study, what an immense playing!

Many people which don't want or didn't have the luck in their piano career and promotion

Overrated?
Lang Lang, Grimaud... in some way I think, Stephen Hough (he is just not convincing me with his playing, same as beauty Helen, dozens of "young piano superstars" (I mean below 30 years old) which are acclaimed to be the phenomenal artists, but each of them play exactly in the same way.

PS wrote by fan of Samson Francois, Zimerman, Lazar Berman, Weissenberg, Yuja Wang, Cziffa, Wunder, Hamelin, young Pogorelich, Horowitz, Volodos and Pletnev.

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#2076789 - 05/03/13 05:50 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: kapelli]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: kapelli

Somebody wrote hear Idil Biret as underrated o_O
I have few Chopin CD's of her (each of them i got from somebody) and these are the worst Chopin interpretations I have in my entire colletions. To be honest, I cannot listen to them.
Try listening to her performances of other composers. I don't particularly like the little Chopin I have heard her play but I've heard her play many other composers both live and on YouTube. She got a terrific reception at the Mannes IKIF some years ago from an audience with many conservatory students. If you read her biography at her website, you may find it harder to so bluntly criticize her as her accomplishments are quite extraordinary.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/03/13 05:59 PM)

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#2076799 - 05/03/13 06:13 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
worov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 109
Loc: Paris
Underrated pianists ? Now, let me see... Me ! Of course. I can't believe my name hasn't been mentionned in this thread !

No, let's be serious. Inger Södergren, Maria Tipo, Rosalyn Tureck, Tatiana Nikolayeva, Anne Queffelec, Annie Fischer, Ivan Moravec, Lili Kraus, Louis Lortie, Anton Kuerti, Nelson Freire, Yves Nat, Cristina Ortiz, Emanuel Ax, Tamas Vasary, Zoltan Kocsis, John Browning, Andrzej Wasowski, John Lill.

I'm sure there are many others.

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#2076827 - 05/03/13 07:58 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: kapelli]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
Originally Posted By: kapelli

Overrated?
Lang Lang, Grimaud..


You know, I was having trouble thinking of pianists who I would think of as overrated, but after you said Grimaud, I do think she might be a bit. I don't quite get her interpretations, or maybe I feel that she's a bit too overconfident on playing pieces the wrong way stylistically. I listened to a version she did of Berceuse by Chopin and while I liked it in a certain way, it was sort of over articulated, a bit like Bach. Yet I got the feeling she did that on purpose. It seems like some music is too holy to mess around with that way. But I suppose one man's Grimaud is another man's. . . (I don't know how to complete that sentence)

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#2076833 - 05/03/13 08:09 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: mermilylumpkin]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin
Originally Posted By: kapelli

Overrated?
Lang Lang, Grimaud..


I respect anyone's opinion that Lang Lang is overrated... only after they've heard him in concert play Bach or Schubert.

-J
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#2076841 - 05/03/13 08:22 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: beet31425]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
Why, does he do a bitchin' Bach and Schubert? I might need to go to Youtube and look this up!

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#2076842 - 05/03/13 08:29 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: mermilylumpkin]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin
Why, does he do a bitchin' Bach and Schubert? I might need to go to Youtube and look this up!


I'm not sure if his more recent solo playing is on YouTube. I'm in the minority group that holds that, in addition to his popular concertizing, he's capable of producing extraordinarily nuanced and faithful performances when he wants to. Here's a review I wrote of his recital a year ago:

review


-J
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#2076845 - 05/03/13 08:32 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
mermilylumpkin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 121
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMbBZky-gA Hey, look! I was just watching this as you replied. It's lovely I think. He does a very lyrical Bach.

Haha, I agree with the "partial Lang Lang apologist" on this one.

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#2076897 - 05/03/13 10:45 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: mermilylumpkin]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMbBZky-gA Hey, look! I was just watching this as you replied. It's lovely I think. He does a very lyrical Bach.



I could almost tolerate the Prelude, but then the Allemande made me hit the mute button. Ridiculous.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#2076905 - 05/03/13 10:59 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: mermilylumpkin]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4149
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMbBZky-gA Hey, look! I was just watching this as you replied. It's lovely I think. He does a very lyrical Bach.

Haha, I agree with the "partial Lang Lang apologist" on this one.


Lang Lang has the ability to be the best damn pianist in the world if you ask me. He just lets his crude showmanship destroy his musicality so often. It's a real shame. Maybe as he ages he will steer further away from that.

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#2076913 - 05/03/13 11:42 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: mermilylumpkin]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: mermilylumpkin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMbBZky-gA Hey, look! I was just watching this as you replied. It's lovely I think. He does a very lyrical Bach.

Haha, I agree with the "partial Lang Lang apologist" on this one.


What I heard in concert was much *quieter* than what I hear in these recordings, but I stand by my basic opinions. It's not how I would play them, but I find these interpretations riveting.

-J
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#2076917 - 05/03/13 11:50 PM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6352
Loc: New York City
Next you're going to tell us you enjoy Gould's Chopin 3rd. (Well, it could be worse. ha)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2076925 - 05/04/13 12:07 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: beet31425]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: beet31425

What I heard in concert was much *quieter* than what I hear in these recordings, but I stand by my basic opinions.

I have never heard LL live, and I have none of his recordings in my library. LL's YT videos are rather distressing, but if a live venue has worked for you, then I respect your opinion.

And yet -with the possible exception of the Yellow River Concerto- is his playing anything more than just fabulous in its technical address, or would it possibly be remembered more in the annals of pianistic history?
_________________________
Jason

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#2076927 - 05/04/13 12:10 AM Re: Underrated and overrated pianists? [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
I can honestly say I've never felt anyone was significantly under- or overrated. I've often felt that individuals or particular groups underrate or overrate pianists -- usually involving failure to appreciate aspects that legitimately make some pianists admired, or idiosyncratic high regard for pianists that don't enjoy general renown -- but if we're talking about predominant general views, I can't think of anyone at all that I think has been significantly misjudged.

So there! grin

edit: One exception, sort of -- and OpusMaximum mentioned him:

Originally Posted By: Opus_Maximus
Underrated:....
Eric Heidsieck

(spelling corrected) grin

This is sort of quibbling about vocabulary, but....I wouldn't say he's underrated, just underrecognized. I think most people who are aware of his playing rate him as he deserves -- which is very, very high.


Edited by Mark_C (05/04/13 12:20 AM)

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