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#2076108 - 05/02/13 07:09 PM If it weren't for DP's??????
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1810
Loc: Rocky Mountains
We just had a thread go off on AP's being better than DP's. Yes, I think that's a given. Any audiophile will tell you that live is better than the best reproduction.

Now My question...
How many of you wouldn't be playing piano if it were not for DP's?


I'm one of those. Would love a nice AP. Number one; money. Number two; I live in an apartment. I rent. I will be moving. If it were not for the existence of DP's. I wouldn't be learning.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2076111 - 05/02/13 07:12 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Scott Hamlin Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 531
They are both different tools...
each has their place.

Is one "better" than the other???

Depends on the application...
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2076124 - 05/02/13 07:45 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 40
I for one certainly wouldn't. My most expensive guitar (full custom) ran about 7K and my wife had quite the fit. Heaven forbid I contemplate a decent acoustic piano as 7K barely gets you into the market, much less something I'd actually be proud to play and own.

Right now all my instruments are in a building on my property about 600 ft away from the main house as my wife isn't supportive of constant practicing and insists my playing upsets the cats. Thankfully I live out in the sticks so at least I don't have to worry about neighbors complaining, although the donkeys and horses that live in the area beg to differ.

DAVID

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#2076144 - 05/02/13 08:23 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 706
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I would be playing a lot less piano without my DP but I would try to keep playing no matter what.

Outside of attending a university or conservatory or owning your own instrument getting access to an acoustic during non-working hours can be quite difficult and costly.



Edited by Vid (05/02/13 08:24 PM)
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2076160 - 05/02/13 08:48 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
rnaple< I read your post, here:

We just had a thread go off on AP's being better than DP's. Yes, I think that's a given. Any audiophile will tell you that live is better than the best reproduction.

Now My question...
How many of you wouldn't be playing piano if it were not for DP's?


I'm one of those. Would love a nice AP. Number one; money. Number two; I live in an apartment. I rent. I will be moving. If it were not for the existence of DP's. I wouldn't be learning.


______________________________________________

nice post, Ron.

Who knows what the past could have been, but I grew up in trailer with my family and animals and a bird, so there was no room for anything - The only good chair went out the door and was replaced with a Christmas tree till the New Year. Affordable digitals were not available until very recently. Some of the earlier computers were a hundred thousand each. And the Clavinova bought in the 1980s was 3000 dollars and my p 95 bought a year ago was $600.

I don't know what things cost around the world
but I read in a piano magazine about a week ago that there used to be something like 65 piano manufacturers in China - I don't know if that is digital or acoustic - but there are now around 300 or 600 - sorry, can't remember the number but the point is that pianos are being built by the millions and becoming cheaper day by day. I have seen a few youtubes clips of young pianists just playing an awesome very, very, very fast music on a digital keyboard and you could see the piano just moving slightly as the guy played the piano hard and fast as a young guy would.

I think as we live our lives we see daily that people who have less can do the impossible because it is not the talent- just go to the teachers forum and look at the postings about talented students that don't want to practice - it is not how much money, or how good or bad the instrument they play, it is the drive to learn by that person that takes them to the top alone - leaving the rest behind thinking how did he/she do it!


Edited by Michael_99 (05/02/13 09:03 PM)

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#2076171 - 05/02/13 08:59 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Interesting thread. I think it's a good 'reality check' for a lot of us because while Digital Pianos are far from perfect, and some purists may look down on them, at least they give people the chance to make music who otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity. I would rather have something "inferior but usable" than nothing at all. Kind of like if you don't own a car and have a several-mile trip to work every day. So you can't drive, but wouldn't you at least rather have a bike to ride?
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#2076173 - 05/02/13 09:01 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Amateur Jerry Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: Mokena, Illinois
I am one of those who probably wouldn't even be playing piano without a DP. Would love to have a nice AP in my house, but money, space and (the ability to use) headphones have made it a practical choice. I practice mainly at night. At least I will be better prepared should I ever get the chance for an AP
_________________________
Czar

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#2076255 - 05/02/13 10:46 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Dan Clark Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 174
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Without a DP, I would not be playing. I'm a beginner. Right now, I make noise, not music. I could afford a decent AP, but it would drive my wife nuts. DP + headphones = marital bliss.

Dan.

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#2076277 - 05/02/13 11:12 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 269
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
I'll be the different one here. I've owned 3 APs, all uprights, one was a studio upright. Two were sold and I still have one small spinet upright made by Yamaha. It plays OK but it always somewhat out of tune. Tuned it once and it quickly began to sour. I didn't play it much because I can't stand anything being slightly out of tune. I have a keen ear for tonal accuracy. I bought my first DP a little over two years ago, a Casio PX 130. I played and loved it to death! The action was great and the sound was OK, at least it was in perfect tune and that made it sound 1000 times better than my old Yamaha AP. The following year I upgraded to a Yamaha CP5. Super action and sound. Love the thing. Because of my DPs I've put in more playing time in these past 2 years that I have in the last 20 years. Does that answer the question?
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#2076410 - 05/03/13 03:33 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: dkong99]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3143
Loc: Northern England.
"I for one certainly wouldn't. My most expensive guitar (full custom) ran about 7K and my wife had quite the fit. . . "

You could`ve spent it on a motorbike. Or extra cigarettes over a prolonged period. . . both of which could prove fatal . . . !

The motorbike is tempting though. And you could get a decent digital with the change . . . cool
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2076411 - 05/03/13 03:36 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3143
Loc: Northern England.
Russ - my thoughts exactly! I`ve yet to find an acoustic I`d like to play. Now if I was playing it and hearing it from a distance, that`d be much better. They sound good from a distance.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2076415 - 05/03/13 03:40 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as rnaple. Money wouldn't be that much of a constraint as used uprights are not that expensive (most are probably even cheaper than the DP I chose) but the facts that I'm just starting out and that I live in a block of flats are more important.

Friends who also play the piano tell me that I should not worry about those things much but I just don't want to push my luck with the neighbors.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2076434 - 05/03/13 05:12 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4400
I'd still be playing acoustic pianos, but it would be any old banger I can get my hands on, like I used to do for decades before I finally bought my DP.

Having my own DP means I can play at any time of the day or night with headphones, and I don't have to put up with lousy acoustics anymore. These days, I only play on the finest, well-prepped acoustic concert grands......

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#2076435 - 05/03/13 05:12 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: peterws]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
Russ - my thoughts exactly! I`ve yet to find an acoustic I`d like to play.


You are building a false agreement with Russ there, Pete. He wasn't saying there are no good APs, he was saying a good DP is better than a crappy AP. I have no issue with people saying that a DP suits their lifestyle or even playing style better, but honestly, if you can't find an AP that you'd like to play, even a little bit, you have major limitations in your technique or you haven't looked very hard. They aren't all poorly maintained/tuned bohemoths. Keep in mind that DPs are actively trying to replicate these things that you find so abhorent. How bad could they be? I think you just enjoy your role as pot-stirrer, because I don't think you'd find anyone who would agree that there are no APs around that they'd like to play.

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#2076441 - 05/03/13 05:48 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: ando]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3143
Loc: Northern England.
A pot-stirrer! Who, me? It`s true what I say, but I`m aware it only seems to apply to me. There are loads on this and the other sites who play great stuff on acoustics which they thoroughly enjoy. It`s just if I had to it`d grate . . . Maybe when I get a bit older . .. a little grand would be nice. I could paint it white, or something . . crazy
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2076447 - 05/03/13 06:24 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1810
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I can remember as far back as when I graduated Jr.High and going to High School. Even though I had played two instruments in two years. I dropped band. Didn't want to go to all the sports games. No marching on the football field. That just wasn't for me.
Yet, I still had music in me. Just like now. If there were DP's then. I would have gone for it. I could work and earn a little money part time. I was very interested in piano at that time. Interested in musical instruments. Very interested in music. I would have gone for an entry level DP and lessons. There was no way my parents would pay for piano lessons. Much less a piano.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#2076460 - 05/03/13 07:48 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: ando]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 269
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: peterws
Russ - my thoughts exactly! I`ve yet to find an acoustic I`d like to play.


You are building a false agreement with Russ there, Pete. He wasn't saying there are no good APs, he was saying a good DP is better than a crappy AP. I have no issue with people saying that a DP suits their lifestyle or even playing style better, but honestly, if you can't find an AP that you'd like to play, even a little bit, you have major limitations in your technique or you haven't looked very hard. They aren't all poorly maintained/tuned bohemoths. Keep in mind that DPs are actively trying to replicate these things that you find so abhorent. How bad could they be? I think you just enjoy your role as pot-stirrer, because I don't think you'd find anyone who would agree that there are no APs around that they'd like to play.


This is true. I have had rare opportunities to touch, feel and play fine concert grand pianos. They are without having to say, "fantastic", spoiling, in fact! It's a work of art and that alone must be appreciated. However, had DP's existed when I was a kid at the price range and quality they are today I could have learned sooner than I did at an age where learning comes best but we were struggling just to make ends meat back then. Living in apartments as we did puts limits on when you can play.

DPs most definitely have their attributes. I would venture to say that without them, many kids of today would go without the opportunity to learn.
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#2076465 - 05/03/13 07:58 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3143
Loc: Northern England.
I did back a local musician on a 9 foot Bluthner back in the 80`s. It was fantastic, no question. I`ve not seen or heard it`s equal since but I`ve heard some on the AB form which impress greatly.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2076468 - 05/03/13 08:01 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3340
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE


DPs most definitely have their attributes. I would venture to say that without them, many kids of today would go without the opportunity to learn.


Being a music teacher, I totally agree. I see it everyday. DPs are the new uprights, as students advance they tend to want to purchase an acoustic grand at some stage - if they have the means. I'm still saving for my first grand! But getting my U3 was a graduation from my old DP (it's in good order and I can tune and adjust it myself).

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#2076519 - 05/03/13 09:23 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Elkayem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 159
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Of course DPs are a gateway drug to a more expensive acoustic piano (as evidenced by ando's post above). How many here wouldn't have that upright or grand if it weren't for that initial fix on the DP? I'm certainly in that camp. Plus, I still like the option of playing with headphones to give my family some peace.
_________________________
Schimmel 130T

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#2076523 - 05/03/13 09:33 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: peterws]
Scott Hamlin Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 531
Originally Posted By: peterws
Now if I was playing it and hearing it from a distance, that`d be much better.


Now THAT is a performance I would like to see....
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2076549 - 05/03/13 10:19 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 132
I would have absolutely not been playing the piano now! When I first started, I was living in a college dorm, 5 guys in a small room. No way an upright would have fitted in there (the Korg SP250 barely had any room).
Now I rent an apartment - neighbors + the thought of moving again, it's a no-no combination for an acoustic.

Add to that I've been searching for a place to practice on an acoustic and found none (the Conservatoire administrator basically laughed in my face when I asked if they have any piano rooms for rent), then for sure, even if I had started, I would have stopped by now due to the lack of a practice instrument.

Mmmm...stop thinking about the imperfections and just be grateful for what you have! Now if only this day would be over so I could get home and play... laugh
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

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#2076593 - 05/03/13 11:11 AM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: Elkayem]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 269
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Originally Posted By: Elkayem
Of course DPs are a gateway drug to a more expensive acoustic piano (as evidenced by ando's post above). How many here wouldn't have that upright or grand if it weren't for that initial fix on the DP? I'm certainly in that camp. Plus, I still like the option of playing with headphones to give my family some peace.


Again, for me it was just the opposite: The studio upright I had did fit into our apartment nicely. It was old, cheap but had a very deep sound to it. The problem became the practically of being able to play at all. I would either drive my wife crazy or the neighbors crazy so my time to play was limited at best and what good is that when you need the practice. And even when I could play, I had to be soft about it. I got use to holding down the left pedal full time. After a while the situation just eats away at your desire to play and you begin to lose interest.

Today, with my CP1 and headphones, I can BANG the crap out of it to my heart's content at 2am in the morning and disturb no one. That's a HUGE plus.

If I had the money would I buy an expensive grand? Absolutely! Would I be able to play it whenever I wanted and how I wanted at any time of the day or night? NO..............but it would sure be a beautiful thing to look at.

The reality is: I don't have the money anyway nor a place to use it and I couldn't settle for just any AP grand. However, the DP has given me a great desire to play and practice because of the freedom to do so whenever I want.
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#2076653 - 05/03/13 01:09 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: dkong99]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5261
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: dkong99
I for one certainly wouldn't. My most expensive guitar (full custom) ran about 7K and my wife had quite the fit. Heaven forbid I contemplate a decent acoustic piano as 7K barely gets you into the market, much less something I'd actually be proud to play and own.

Right now all my instruments are in a building on my property about 600 ft away from the main house as my wife isn't supportive of constant practicing and insists my playing upsets the cats. Thankfully I live out in the sticks so at least I don't have to worry about neighbors complaining, although the donkeys and horses that live in the area beg to differ.

DAVID


Your wife is upset that your practicing upsets your cats. Are you kidding me?



Edited by Ken Knapp (05/03/13 11:27 PM)
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#2076657 - 05/03/13 01:14 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 647
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE
The reality is: I don't have the money anyway nor a place to use it and I couldn't settle for just any AP grand. However, the DP has given me a great desire to play and practice because of the freedom to do so whenever I want.
like drugs cool
_________________________
AvantGrand N2, FP-4, Gallien-Krueger MK & MP

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#2076685 - 05/03/13 02:11 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: 36251]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 269
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Originally Posted By: 36251
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE
The reality is: I don't have the money anyway nor a place to use it and I couldn't settle for just any AP grand. However, the DP has given me a great desire to play and practice because of the freedom to do so whenever I want.
like drugs cool


"Wine, women and song" - "sex, drugs and rock and roll". Yep, I guess I'd put in that category! Ever been away from you keyboard for a while and then you start to experience an itchy feeling to play? I guess it is sort of addicting.

For me, unlike many people here where playing and teaching is a carrier that pays the rent, music is just a hobby. It's not a "take it or leave it" hobby. It's serious. I have to have a keyboard and I feel the need to be playing it and it often interrupts other things I should be doing instead, like going to bed at a decent hour! Does that sound enough like drugs?
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#2076686 - 05/03/13 02:14 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: Dave Horne]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: dkong99
I for one certainly wouldn't. My most expensive guitar (full custom) ran about 7K and my wife had quite the fit. Heaven forbid I contemplate a decent acoustic piano as 7K barely gets you into the market, much less something I'd actually be proud to play and own.

Right now all my instruments are in a building on my property about 600 ft away from the main house as my wife isn't supportive of constant practicing and insists my playing upsets the cats. Thankfully I live out in the sticks so at least I don't have to worry about neighbors complaining, although the donkeys and horses that live in the area beg to differ.

DAVID


Your wife is upset that your practicing upsets your cats. Are you f+ร—รท=%โ‚ฌ kidding me?



It does beg the question... Uh, nevermind.
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2076796 - 05/03/13 06:03 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
Scott Hamlin Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 531
She should've married a mime.
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2076800 - 05/03/13 06:17 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: Dave Horne]
dkong99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 40
No. But it's her roundabout way of saying she can't stand my playing - hence the separate building on our property.

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#2076900 - 05/03/13 10:49 PM Re: If it weren't for DP's?????? [Re: rnaple]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
I have a 4-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a 6-month old. They keep me hopping during the day and they are pretty light sleepers in the evening. If there were no digital pianos, I could pretty much forget about playing, except for the odd children's tune.

So yeah, DP's are the shizzle.


Edited by gvfarns (05/03/13 10:50 PM)

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