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#2076804 - 05/03/13 06:24 PM Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts?
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I wanted to try something different with my ES7 setup. I originally had the Mackies on a different stand above the built in speakers and kept the on-board speakers off. It was starting to be a bit too much right in my face, sound was inconsistent with certain songs. I eventually stopped using them and went back to using on-board speakers.

Granted that studio monitors are directional I still wanted to try something new in combination with the on-board speakers on the ES7. So I picked up some ISOAcoustic stands (very nice, solid) and put the speakers below the keyboard next to sub woofer. After tweaking the the sound a bit with the mixer I and on-board speakers I found a great combination and sound that I did not expect. Works well without tweaking nearly as much as I used to. It almost reminds me of playing the CA95 when the sound board kicks in - and even bigger if I turn the sub woofer on. However, a mixer is a must for this setup. I am going to try raising the speakers a little higher. The ISOAcoustics comes with 3" and 8" bars. I know my setup might seem absurd to most sound engineers, but it sounds remarkable good. So, just putting it out there to see what you guys think or suggest. Below are some pictures to see my odd setup.




Edited by Marko in Boston (05/03/13 09:38 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2076814 - 05/03/13 07:20 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Pretty decent. wink

However, I would also consider replacing the X-stand for something more leg-room friendly.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2076820 - 05/03/13 07:33 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I agree . I HATE the X. I just dont know what to get. Don't want the ES7 proprietary stand. I really want a K&G stand but would like to see it instead of buying blindly. Any suggestions?
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2076822 - 05/03/13 07:38 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9156
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Keyboard-stands/Keyboard-tables

Either the 18950 or 18953. Built like a tank, and solid as a rock.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2076996 - 05/04/13 04:19 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3816
Loc: North Carolina
And consider getting speaker stands that will bring them up to ear level. You'll get much better sound.

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#2077013 - 05/04/13 06:02 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3609
Loc: Northern England.
Looks good. They do sound better with decent external speakers and amplifiers. I had a Hohner accordion stereo amp (25W per channel) which was heaps better than the onboard speakers in my ole Yam even though the power output was similar. It was easy to set up and play too.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2077028 - 05/04/13 07:03 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: MacMacMac]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Hi MacMacMac, I did have them at ear level but found it to be unpleasant sometimes and spot on perfect other times. But way to much too much tweaking that started to distract from my playing and practicing. Funny about studio monitors that they are almost too perfect, you hear every detail whether good or bad.

This new setup seems to work well; sounds great, using the on-board speakers for face level, monitors below push detail sound on the low end, less tweaking, and more playing. Very full sound altogether.

Concert Grand Kawai ES7 sounds incredible. Studio Grand sounds very clean and detailed. I have not messed with Mellow Grand not soft an clear. Regardless, again the mixer is key


Edited by Marko in Boston (05/04/13 08:25 AM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2077055 - 05/04/13 08:38 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Amateur Jerry Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Mokena, Illinois
Marko,

Have you tried putting the studio monitors behind the piano? I have a pair of DefTech SM-45's that I am using with my CA-63 and I place them at piano height behind piano. 1) It eliminates some of that in your face feeling. 2) In an acoustic piano the sound resonates behind the music rack, with the speakers in the position, the sound now resonates more naturally.

If you have room you may want to try pulling the piano off the wall some.

I know what you mean about the tweaking. I spent just as much time tweaking as practicing. What solved that is I bought an SPL meter placed it on the music rack and calibrated as much as possible to an AP. I get from the low 70's to about mid 90's db and I leave it at that. Not quite the range of an AP but not bad. Now when I play p or mp I am getting more of a string sound instead of a bell. Instead of testing the piano for how loud and full it can sound, I now look for how real it sounds at mid range with p-mp-mf. The realism has greatly increased.

I basically use concert grand and some studio grand with just a little EQ in the mids and highs. I found the less processing adjustments reduces that "electronic" effect. The only time I use mellow is when I want to simulate having the lid down.

With an old but working stereo amp and the DefTechs I run my volume slider at about 2 and the piano is much improved.
_________________________
Czar

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#2077082 - 05/04/13 09:47 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
I only have to push the 'on' button on the FP-80. smile
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Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2077087 - 05/04/13 09:54 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Cmin]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Same here on the ES7. But this is a "fun" project I got myself into after buying these Mackies that I never needed in the first place. The ES7 and FP-80 speakers are both very good but limited. Sometimes I just feel like rattling the windows a little bit if you know what I mean.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2077137 - 05/04/13 12:26 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Hi, Just the same experiment have I had in mind, being an advocate for a sound perspective improvement in previous post.
I am using most of the time SW pianos (Galaxy BD, VG; Pianoteq)

If we have more then just the 2 stereo speakers, this should allow for the resulting sound image to sound more rich like an acoustic where the sound source is the much bigger whole body of the instrument.

I found it also an improvement having my Genelec monitors slightly below ear level (out of the radiation axis). (Not on the floor level though.)

To be able to combine the DPs (my candidate is the CA65) own boxes with my monitors + sub I'll need possibly a monitor controller like this one: Monitor Controller

Or alternatively, if the audio interface supports parallel output Balanced / unbalanced line out level output (like my EMU0404USB does), I could connect the DP line in with the unbalanced out and the monitors/sub with the balanced connectors. With my previous CA51 seemed only the balanced to work well, there was with the unbalanced ones a strong humming noise - was really unusable.

Would be very interested for experiences/expertise with such setups.

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#2077591 - 05/05/13 10:54 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
I hate the X and Z stands, I suggest you try the Quik-Lok WS-550.

As other have stated, the speakers need to be up off the floor. You might try aiming them out 90 degrees rather than have them pointing at you. The ideal thing might be some kind of stereo full-range speaker system in open baffles and EQed.
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2077611 - 05/05/13 11:35 AM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: dewster]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I just raised the speakers form 3" to the highest setting 8" and it surprisingly made a noticeable difference for the better. You cant see in the photo but these stands are also slightly angled pointing up. Like I mentioned before, I did not like them at ear level. I love the sound now, keep in mind I am still using the on-board speakers mixed with the mackies. So , I have plenty of sound at face level. Now the the Mackies really give it the sound of a higher end console DP with better sounds systems like the CA95 or a Yamaha NU1 with speakers at the knee level. Again, this is "fun" project. The ES7 is amazing on its own in every way. I just like to shake the house sometimes and this setup is beyond my expectations.









Edited by Marko in Boston (05/05/13 02:23 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2079454 - 05/08/13 06:06 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I found a GREAT option to make the Mackies (or any studio monitor I guess) less directional. I turned off the onboard speakers (dont need subwoofer w Mackies), set the mixer basically flat, then set the "magic button" : Voicing (2-2) to Dynamic. The sound completely opened up as if where coming from a great stereo system. Bass is very tight and clear, house shaking but not muddy or boomy. Mids are very detailed and pleasant. Highs are amazing. I just played with some of my musician friends and they were shocked at how good the piano sounds even at very load level (hence house shaking). The sound is getting closer and closer to the sound through my headphones. The Dynamic setting the Kawai ES7 does the trick, not sure how that translates to other DP's.

I wish I could articulate what Im hearing a little better, but just thought I would share my experience. I have been seeing many post lately about external speakers so I thought some might interested in the Mackies. I really love them more and more. More importantly, makes me want to play more


Edited by Marko in Boston (05/08/13 06:06 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2079524 - 05/08/13 09:51 PM Re: Trying a new combo w/built in speakers & monitors. Thoughts? [Re: Marko in Boston]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 477
I use a table stand like the k&m referenced with my ES6. Really nice and easy to transport

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