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#2076664 - 05/03/13 01:22 PM Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions...
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
So I have this key with a small but annoying sound playing with the note.
After lots of communications with the dealer, they decided to not send their normal tuner (that blamed my super ears for hearing too much) and are sending their technician which prepares their pianos for concerts.

He will be also tuning of course.
Is there anything you guys think I should make sure he checks?
I dont want to be annoying to him but also I want to make sure this time I dont get some half done job.

This is the first tuning of this piano at home. I am not even sure if it has been regulated by the other tech at the store.

Thanks for any recommendations!


Edited by shaolin95 (05/03/13 01:22 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2076719 - 05/03/13 03:06 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1653
Loc: Chicagoland
Just be sure to be able to demonstrate what is bothering you, as well as a different note that you don't hear the sound. Much of what we have to do involves figuring out what the client is listening to before we come up with a solution...
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#2076720 - 05/03/13 03:08 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1653
Loc: Chicagoland
Oh, and check it again before he leaves. If it is better and then returns after some time, you may be hearing a tuning issue.
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#2076738 - 05/03/13 03:58 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
I am printing a keyboard layout and marking the keys that I have problems with so we do not miss anything and what the issue is.
I hope that is helpful instead of annoying to him lol


Oh and that particular key, the other tuner tried tuning it but the problem did not go away at all so must be something else.
Thanks!


Edited by shaolin95 (05/03/13 04:11 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2076882 - 05/03/13 09:44 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
BenP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 166
Loc: South Jersey
If possible, I would be sure to describe to the tech about the key that is bothering you before he comes. Particularly if it's a problem that has been worked on before and not resolved to your satisfaction. It may be a simple fix, but you should also be prepared to pay him for his time (in addition to the tuning price).

Edit: unless this is a free service call being provided by the dealer - that would depend on your arrangement with the dealer.


Edited by BenP (05/03/13 09:45 PM)
_________________________
Ben Patterson
Part-time Piano Tech
Rural South Jersey

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#2076912 - 05/03/13 11:37 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3564
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
I am printing a keyboard layout and marking the keys that I have problems with so we do not miss anything and what the issue is.
I hope that is helpful instead of annoying to him lol


Oh and that particular key, the other tuner tried tuning it but the problem did not go away at all so must be something else.
Thanks!


That's a very clever idea actually!

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#2077959 - 05/05/13 10:44 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2521
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
So how did it go?
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2081627 - 05/12/13 11:31 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
hotcat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 104
You've left us wondering how this all worked out!

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#2081774 - 05/13/13 09:06 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Oh yes, my bad! laugh

Well, let'see so this guy was a totally different experience.
He actually paid attention to what I was saying and he explained to me so many things of what he was doing to the hammers, the strings, how it works, I really learned a lot in all the time he was there.

He was able to tame that strange noise I had on a key as well as work on others that to my ears, were not sounding right. He was very humble too about things. He did some different things on some hammers like with a needle, also like shaving a bit on some.
That key with the odd noise, he showed me the hammers was hitting a lot on the left one then a bit on the middle one and almost nothing on the right string.
He tried getting me the most sustain possible on the upper register but also worked on some one the more "bell" sounding keys, so overall the piano feels better balanced and a smoother transition from key to key.
Not perfect of course, but much better for sure!

He actually went by a second time because of two things...
First, on the upper register area he seemed to have worked on some hammers which took away some of the extra bell/metallic sound on 3 keys but not others so I was playing I noticed right away the change between the keys. I wanted that smoother.

Second, there was a "thumping or knocking" sound on 4 keys. I recall him showing me that the keyboard was not sitting completely flat under those particular keys..like there was this tiny gap.

Well on the second time in, I reminded him of that but he said he took care of that (I dont recall that at all) and instead focused on the hammer and how it was hitting the strings.
Well, the problem is still there and easy to tell when I am playing on those 4 keys but I felt it was not going to get me anywhere to keep trying so I said it was fine and called it a day.

So, the piano is still not perfect, or perfect to my ears that is so I am still considering that other guy (which I have to pay on my own) to give me that peace of mind and ears! lol
My concern is...what if he comes by and is unable to get it done..am I just throwing money away?
When a tech is working for you...should he be the one explaining how it should sound specially when they are used to work on much more expensive pianos...or is it normall for you (even with my limited experience) to be telling them hey this is not blending fine, or this one has too much metal sounds?

I was a bit surprised that I was doing that in many keys....

So yeah, overall, it feels much better and even but I am still not sure what to do next.

Thanks for following up guys!
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2081808 - 05/13/13 10:08 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7316
Loc: Rochester MN
Seeing as the piano is so new, I think it's time to just play it in for about 6-8 months. Let the piano mature (break in) and then make an assessment. This is SOP for all new pianos.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2086519 - 05/21/13 11:38 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
UPDATE!

I went ahead and got one of the top techs around to come by and WOW, now this IS how my piano should have been. No more "thumping" or knocking keys. He had to shave some sections that were uneven to fix that then also adjust inside where the keys sit inside the piano to align them better with the strings. This is the most annoying issue that remained even after the other tech's visit as he only worked on the hammers that day no matter how much I insisted on the knocking sound.

He also fixed a squeaky sound from the pedal which the original tech claimed it was part of how pianos are and the second tech didnt even check.
This one fixed that and had to add some liquid stuff to stop the squeaky noise and now the pedal is very silent and working beautiful.
He really checked everything I could think off and even when I thought it was good already he will keep at it until perfect. Also did voicing and I LOVE how the metallic bright sound is now gone and all is one beautiful even tone.
The tenor break he also made sure to make it as seamless as possible.
A true perfectionist...just what I needed. While the voicing I dont expect the dealer to pay for, there were many things that they should have corrected during the setup so I am surely gonna have a talk with them and the tech said is is more than happy to explain all he did. It is all on the receipt anyway.

In any case, NOW, I can truly say, I am extremely happy with my Piano at long last! smile


Edited by shaolin95 (05/21/13 11:40 PM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2086628 - 05/22/13 07:54 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7482
Loc: France
Hello , that is pleasing to see that you where lucky in the end to find a good technician.
I admire your gopod listening.

Even for bedding the keyframe (the thump sound) not all technicians are equal, this is a delicate operation, as it may change the key dip, the touch, it is not so often that a thump is noticed, but many technicians avoid to touch the glide bolts (the screw that regulate the bedding) by fear of complications.

The last technician may have give the hammer the last part of the first voicing that have not been done enough originally. The second probably only evened the tone without changing it fundamentally.

Thanks for the witnessing.


PS the "bedding" can be a little instable during the first years, so do not be surprised if your piano have a different touch in dry season (or the opposite)

On some instruments it is even possible that the glide bolts are tweaked a hair at the season. The thing to avoid there is being extreme and "over correct".

Knowing the type of keyframe construction and if it is more or less stable (not bad on Y.C. if memory serves) and taking in account the season is part of the difficulty in that regulation task.
Some pianos have a very soft keyframe and accept to take a lot of shape, other are rigid and the keys tend to rise in the mediums at humid season.
Other also are installed under some stress .
Some have a clear tendency to bow in winter, and some rattle can happen on the extremities.

Keeping your instrument in the most stable hygrometry can help to avoid some of those problems . I know about Dampp Chaser and they help a little, but do not influence the keybed.

Best regards




Edited by Olek (05/22/13 08:07 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2086642 - 05/22/13 08:24 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2366
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: shaolin95

When a tech is working for you...should he be the one explaining how it should sound specially when they are used to work on much more expensive pianos...or is it normall for you (even with my limited experience) to be telling them hey this is not blending fine, or this one has too much metal sounds?


This is a very good question because both you and your techs' personalities come in to play here. Years ago I was concerned that one part of my business was truly lacking, salesmanship. I took a few courses in it and learned an important thing I needed to change in how I dealt with customers. My problem was that I talked too much. When working in such a specialized trade, this is easy to do.

To properly address a customer need, the tech really needs to listen, sometimes even soliciting more information than what the customer willingly gives up. It is also important for the tech to hear out all the concerns before addressing them since many of the adjustments and alterations we can do to the piano brings along with it more than one change.

Quite often two people are not on the same page when dealing with what we hear in a piano. Physical things like touch and response are easier to deal with, they can be objectively measured. I would say that as a customer you should feel free to express all your concerns, regardless of your experience, but at the same time, be prepared to make adjustments in your expectations. A good tech will inform you if the piano you have is a Fiat and will never perform or sound like a Ferarri. The best that can be done is often limited by the piano's size , inherant quality of workmanship/materials and design and this is often a bitter pill to swallow after the fact of getting a piano. In your case, if there are sections of the piano you are happy with, the chances are very good that the rest of the piano can be voiced or adjusted to blend and even things out throughout the whole keyboard.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

Top
#2086650 - 05/22/13 08:40 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: Olek]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Originally Posted By: Olek
Hello , that is pleasing to see that you where lucky in the end to find a good technician.
I admire your gopod listening.

Even for bedding the keyframe (the thump sound) not all technicians are equal, this is a delicate operation, as it may change the key dip, the touch, it is not so often that a thump is noticed, but many technicians avoid to touch the glide bolts (the screw that regulate the bedding) by fear of complications.

The last technician may have give the hammer the last part of the first voicing that have not been done enough originally. The second probably only evened the tone without changing it fundamentally.

Thanks for the witnessing.


PS the "bedding" can be a little instable during the first years, so do not be surprised if your piano have a different touch in dry season (or the opposite)

On some instruments it is even possible that the glide bolts are tweaked a hair at the season. The thing to avoid there is being extreme and "over correct".

Knowing the type of keyframe construction and if it is more or less stable (not bad on Y.C. if memory serves) and taking in account the season is part of the difficulty in that regulation task.
Some pianos have a very soft keyframe and accept to take a lot of shape, other are rigid and the keys tend to rise in the mediums at humid season.
Other also are installed under some stress .
Some have a clear tendency to bow in winter, and some rattle can happen on the extremities.

Keeping your instrument in the most stable hygrometry can help to avoid some of those problems . I know about Dampp Chaser and they help a little, but do not influence the keybed.

Best regards



Thanks for the comments and recommendations. I do keep a humidifier next to it and keeping the room at 40-45% That is my goal for the year. May need another one during strong Winter time but yeah, I will make sure to control that as much as possible.
I plan to keep the same tech for my tunings as well. I just dont feel comfortable now with any other tech dealing with my piano...sort of like finding a good hairstylist laugh


Edited by shaolin95 (05/22/13 08:52 AM)
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2086658 - 05/22/13 08:50 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: Emmery]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Originally Posted By: shaolin95

When a tech is working for you...should he be the one explaining how it should sound specially when they are used to work on much more expensive pianos...or is it normall for you (even with my limited experience) to be telling them hey this is not blending fine, or this one has too much metal sounds?


This is a very good question because both you and your techs' personalities come in to play here. Years ago I was concerned that one part of my business was truly lacking, salesmanship. I took a few courses in it and learned an important thing I needed to change in how I dealt with customers. My problem was that I talked too much. When working in such a specialized trade, this is easy to do.

To properly address a customer need, the tech really needs to listen, sometimes even soliciting more information than what the customer willingly gives up. It is also important for the tech to hear out all the concerns before addressing them since many of the adjustments and alterations we can do to the piano brings along with it more than one change.

Quite often two people are not on the same page when dealing with what we hear in a piano. Physical things like touch and response are easier to deal with, they can be objectively measured. I would say that as a customer you should feel free to express all your concerns, regardless of your experience, but at the same time, be prepared to make adjustments in your expectations. A good tech will inform you if the piano you have is a Fiat and will never perform or sound like a Ferarri. The best that can be done is often limited by the piano's size , inherant quality of workmanship/materials and design and this is often a bitter pill to swallow after the fact of getting a piano. In your case, if there are sections of the piano you are happy with, the chances are very good that the rest of the piano can be voiced or adjusted to blend and even things out throughout the whole keyboard.


I think you nailed it there!
It is a matter of finding a tech that is really in line with your own needs. Is like when he was testing and fixing things, it was exactly what I would hear and wanted to fix even without me having to point it out. It was VERY refreshing having to constantly tell the previous one to go back to a certain key etc and explain what I was hearing.
This one just heard it and even more so I did not feel like I was telling him how to do things and the whole process (about 3 hours) felt very smooth and friendly because of that compatibility between my needs and his style of work.
He is mostly a Steinway tech so of course his piano sound ideally will be like that and in a way, I kind of like the idea of having someone like that working on it because after voicing the sound I got is just beautiful and not like it was originally on the bright side but I can get a lot more dynamics now than before. I was having a blast yesterday! laugh
So yes, you really got that right on the changes you made.
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

Top
#2089791 - 05/27/13 10:03 AM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2521
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I'm glad you got it worked out.

So when will you be hosting your piano party?!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2089945 - 05/27/13 02:45 PM Re: Piano technician coming tomorrow. I have some questions... [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Thats a good question! laugh
Right now I am in the fun part of trying to get the dealer to pay for part of the service that should have been done by them when delivered.
I knew the sales guys was going to say that voicing is not something they cover but apparently he missed the LONG list of things that were done to FIX issues with the piano that had nothing to do with voicing.
I am taking this to the owner next.
You dont buy a new car and have to take it to your mechanic to fix issues right from the get go.
What bothers me how the first thing they mention is the 10 year warranty the piano has....well, if 2 months into it, I have to go through so much trouble...I can imagine how awesome it would be in a few years. smirk
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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