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#2077135 - 05/04/13 12:22 PM Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Hi. I don't have my Casio PX-150 yet, but I'll be buying it this month, so I'm looking again at external speakers. I've decided I don't want to deal with a subwoofer, as I'll be transporting my piano several times a week and I'll only be playing it quietly for the most part.

I'll pay anywhere up to $120, and the two things I'm looking for are 20w or more (to equal or beat the PX-850's 20w) and they need to be small enough to sit on the piano's internal speakers. I've been searching for two hours now, and here are two that I've looked at.

The first one has no reviews, but is 20w and small enough. The second one has lots of reviews, but doesn't give the wattage.

First

Second

I don't even know how important wattage is -- I assume it's important as it's the difference in the speakers of the four pianos in the Privia PX-x50 series.

If you have any you like or can suggest any that are small and have 20+ watts, please let me know. Thank you!
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#2077141 - 05/04/13 12:31 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Actually, wattage is not necessarily important. In fact, 10 watts into high efficiency speakers can be louder than 30 watts into low efficiency speakers. Plus, companies don't all specify watts the same way (i.e. over what frequency range, with what distortion, continuous or peak).

Are you sure the piano's internal speakers won't be sufficient?

Also, looking at the speakers you linked to, I'm wondering how you intend to place them. You talked about having them sit on the piano's internal speakers, but I think they would be prone to fall off.

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#2077146 - 05/04/13 12:47 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The speakers aren't very nice -- they don't do the sound justice as the highest two models do. This is one of the areas they cut back on this model to reduce price.

Yes, I want to sit them on the speakers themselves, really as a replacement. I'll soon be getting the wooden stand afterwards, which would make the piano especially sturdy, and I doubt they'd fall off. smile
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077307 - 05/04/13 05:59 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9404
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
While I have not heard the speakers you linked to, for $25 I'm doubtful that they will sound any better than those built-into the PX-150.

I also would not recommend attempting to place the speakers on top of the PX-150 itself, at least, not without some Velcro pads or something similar to prevent the them from sliding-off when playing.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2077404 - 05/04/13 10:13 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 554
FWIW - the wattage on the Creative Labs are 9 watts.
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http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2077450 - 05/05/13 01:01 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks, James and Plinky. I agree, I don't think 25 - 50 dollar speakers are going to sound very good. I'd like something closer to 100 dollars, but everything seems to come with a subwoofer! Maybe I should suck it up and get one with a sub? It just seems a waste if I'm not using it half the time. I live in an apartment the size of a bedroom and share a wall with two people.

If I shouldn't put the speakers on top of the piano, then maybe under it on the left and right? I'm not sure what to do, as this isn't going to be a permanent setup and I'll be transporting it four times a week.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077455 - 05/05/13 01:25 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Are you playing alone, for yourself? Or are you playing for other people to listen? Or are you jamming with other players? The purpose might lead people to different suggestions...

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#2077456 - 05/05/13 01:26 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Behringer MS-40 ? They're 20 watts per side, and they sound a lot better than the speakers in my PX-350.

But I doubt that they'll fit on top of the PX-150 loudspeakers.

You have a problem:

. . . It's not just the loudspeaker driver that matters,
. . . but also the enclosure that it's in.

The MS-40's are about as small as anything can be, and still give decent bass. Other 5" "powered monitor" loudspeakers will be more-or-less the same size.

I've had poor luck with "computer loudspeakers". The highs are OK, but the midrange is weak.

. Charles

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#2077458 - 05/05/13 01:42 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
anotherscott: I'm playing alone for practice. If I take it for performances, I'd be plugging into the DI. I'll also be recording for Youtube, which I would do using a lead from the headphone jack. When I take it back to my mum's house, I'll also often be playing with my mate on guitar and singing. The main thing is the detail in the piano sound that I'm missing out on.

Charles Cohen: Thanks! I think I can fork out for these. Is this what you're using? If so, where do you place them?
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077482 - 05/05/13 03:25 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Have you ruled out using studio monitor stands?

http://www.sweetwater.com/c762--Studio_Monitor_Stands
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Les C Deal





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#2077504 - 05/05/13 05:55 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Yep. Another expense, and wouldn't fit in my bedroom-sized studio apartment.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077582 - 05/05/13 10:35 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
For $120 you could build a pretty nice set of close monitors. Here is an interesting full-range driver that is fairly efficient and handles a fair amount of wattage:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-915

These are less expensive, but probably not as good sounding:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-010

Then build some ported boxes, and drive them with an inexpensive amplifier:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-300

The final solution is to remove the DP guts, and build them into a flight case with better speakers and amplifier. That might only run you a couple of hundred if you DIY. I'll probably do this some day when I get completely tired of the lame commercial offerings.
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2077586 - 05/05/13 10:47 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Originally Posted By: Maechre
I'm playing alone for practice.

For that, your best solution might be headphones. Good quality at low cost, and no placement issues. And maybe you already have a set you can use, which would make them free!

Originally Posted By: Maechre
I'll also often be playing with my mate on guitar and singing.

I'd probably go for the Behringer B208D. For this application, I wouldn't worry so much about stereo. One good speaker is better than two lesser ones. Compared to the little speakers you're looking at, this will have a lot more power and bass fullness. It's designed for "live performance" levels. And for transporting back and forth, it's nice to have something that is designed to take a bit of "road handling."

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#2077595 - 05/05/13 10:58 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Originally Posted By: Maechre
I'd like something closer to 100 dollars

Another thought... if the PX-350 speakers are good enough for you, but the PX-150 speakers aren't, maybe it's better to pay $200 more for the upgraded model, and not have to worry about placement, wiring, ease of transport... and then you get the other advantages like line in and out, MIDI connectors, more sounds, better split/layer functionality, etc.

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#2077596 - 05/05/13 11:01 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Yes, with my current DP I plug in my Philips in-ear headphones through a 1/8" to 1/4" adaptor. I use them when I'm practising in my box of an apartment from dark onwards, and even at daytime when I don't want anyone else to hear.

The other thing is I'll be teaching on it, which is another reason it has to be portable. I think for those purposes its own speakers would be fine
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077597 - 05/05/13 11:06 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I've considered that. But all the buttons would act as distractions for my seven year old student, and I never use anything other than the concert piano sound. If I want to use MIDI sounds, Í can plug it into my DAW and use it as a MIDI controller. smile If the 350's speakers were better, it'd have a better case, but I'd still want a better sound out of it.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

Top
#2077600 - 05/05/13 11:10 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I like the idea of the Behringer MS40s. I guess I won't really know if I NEEEED them until I have the piano and have played it for a while, but I feel much better thinking this through now.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2077639 - 05/05/13 12:35 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Originally Posted By: Maechre
I've considered that. But all the buttons would act as distractions for my seven year old student, and I never use anything other than the concert piano sound.

I'm curious, did you consider the Yamaha P105? I think its piano tone and speakers would beat out the PX150 at the same price. But the Casio would probably win on feel.

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#2077668 - 05/05/13 01:50 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Another option might be to crack the PX-150 open, measure the speakers (dimensionally and electrical TS specs), and try to find more efficient replacements that have decent frequency response in the given enclosure. That's probably what I'd try first. And if it's still not loud enough put a small amplifier in there.

Sad all this stuff we have to do after buying the darn DP in the first place. It would be great if they offered models with sufficient wattage and maybe neodymium drivers to save weight.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2077676 - 05/05/13 02:03 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Originally Posted By: dewster
Another option might be to crack the PX-150 open, measure the speakers (dimensionally and electrical TS specs), and try to find more efficient replacements that have decent frequency response in the given enclosure. That's probably what I'd try first.

Also, it's possible that the speakers for the PX-350, if purchased as replacement parts, might pop right into the PX-150. I think the big (only?) difference is that the 350 speaker is a dual driver design, the 150 is a single. I don't think the difference is loudness, per se, I think it's that the 150 is missing the tweeter so it provides a duller sound.

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#2078031 - 05/06/13 01:12 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Maechre

Charles Cohen: Thanks! I think I can fork out for these. Is this what you're using? If so, where do you place them?


I have them on a desk, next to the PX-350. Not the best position!

The boxes are too large to fit on top of the PX-350. Also, the tweeters are directional. The loudspeakers should be pointed toward the player's head. That would mean tilting them backward.

You might be able to buy a set of MS40's, try them, and return them if you couldn't figure out how to mount them. Wall brackets, and bookshelves, might work if there's a wall behind your keyboard (and you are permitted to drill holes).

. Charles

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#2078558 - 05/06/13 09:34 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
emenelton Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 498
Maecher
I listen to your YouTube Video
sounds good
I can't understand why you want to get such a
complicated set-up when the P-105, to me, is a
much better choice.
For singing accompament the sustain and
intonation of the yamaha, as well as it's
speaker system, is hard to beat.

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#2078599 - 05/06/13 11:32 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
From the Yamaha website on the P105:

Quote:

Amplifiers and Speakers

Amplifiers 7W x 2
Speakers 12cm x 2 + 5cm x 2


That's comparable to the Casio PX-150, but with tweeters added. The "PA section" of the P105 is still low-powered, probably with inadequate bass.

The low-end market is fiercely competitive. Good amps / drivers / cabinets are expensive (and bulky!), and they don't get included in low-price digital pianos. Especially not "slab pianos".

A music-store salesman suggested to me that a Fender "Passport 150" PA system would be a good choice for my PX-350. I thought that was a joke ("overkill" squared?). But the PX-350 sounded really nice through a 300-watt Yamaha PA system, with 8" woofers and horn-loaded tweeters. The "Passport 150" (150 watts, 6" woofers, twin tweeters for each woofer) would probably put out a fair bit of righteous sound.

It's not _everyone_ who needs (or wants) an upgrade to their DP's speakers and amps. But for those who do, both money and space will be needed.

. Charles




Edited by Charles Cohen (05/06/13 11:41 PM)

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#2078609 - 05/06/13 11:57 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Charles Cohen]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3322
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
From the Yamaha website on the P105:

Quote:

Amplifiers and Speakers

Amplifiers 7W x 2
Speakers 12cm x 2 + 5cm x 2


That's comparable to the Casio PX-150, but with tweeters added.

The specs may be comparable, but that really doesn't tell you whether the sound will be comparably loud and full. A lot depends on the efficiency of the speaker, and even the enclosure itself makes a difference (even if they are rating the power the same way, which they also may not be).

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#2078664 - 05/07/13 05:25 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: emenelton]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: emenelton
Maecher
I listen to your YouTube Video
sounds good
I can't understand why you want to get such a
complicated set-up when the P-105, to me, is a
much better choice.
For singing accompament the sustain and
intonation of the yamaha, as well as it's
speaker system, is hard to beat.


I've played the P-105 at my Uni, and I don't like it as much as the PX-150. Why would I want the 150 so much? Because I have the PX-730 and I like its sound and key weighting. What does the 150 have the the 730 doesn't?
1. Portability so I can teach/accompany with it.
2. The ivory feel keys which I love.
3. An improved sound on top of what I already like.

I played it again yesterday and while I don't think its volume level is an issue at all, I think its speakers restrict the tonal quality a little bit. I've made my choice, now I just want to maximize on it. Just the tonal quality is what I'm after.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2078807 - 05/07/13 12:17 PM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
emenelton Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 498
Marcher,

is your YouTube piece with the 730?

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#2079069 - 05/08/13 12:47 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: emenelton]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1410
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
There are some favorable comments about the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 loudspeakers in a thread here -- try a search for:

promedia-2-1-computer-speakers

"pv88" thinks they're adequate for a Roland V-Piano, so they ought to be fine for a Casio.<g> I think they're in your price range.

The "satellites" might be small enough to fit on top of a PX-150 -- each has a small horn tweeter and a 3" midrange driver. The subwoofer (6.5" woofer) sits on the floor.

If you're going to be close to them, volume should be more than adequate.

. Charles

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#2079085 - 05/08/13 01:36 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Charles Cohen]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2635
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
The "satellites" might be small enough to fit on top of a PX-150 -- each has a small horn tweeter and a 3" midrange driver. The subwoofer (6.5" woofer) sits on the floor.

If you're going to be close to them, volume should be more than adequate.


Yes, the Klipsch 2.1 satellites fit quite nicely on top of the V-Piano at each end and the subwoofer sits under the piano to the furthermost left side corner of the stand which is directly under the "bass" section of the keyboard.

And, you don't need a lot of volume along with a low subwoofer setting to get good results.

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#2079122 - 05/08/13 04:57 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
emenelton: The silver keyboard is an old 72-key I've been using to teach on. The black one in most of the other videos is the PX-730.

Charles Cohen and pv-88: Thanks! I had a look and I'm happy with the reviews. Here's a picture of the PX-150 with the stand I'll be using.

PX-150 with stand

Do you still think the "satellites" would sit on top comfortably? Might need something on the bottoms to hold them down?
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2079126 - 05/08/13 05:13 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2408
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
You have pretty much confirmed though in your use of this piano that headphones will do the job. No crappy add on speakers at the price you are willing to pay will get you even 10% of the experience of playing with decent headphones. And by decent I don't mean "in-ear" Philips either. They will be rubbish. Get some mid range Sennheiser or AKG 'phones and your problems are sorted. For when you really need the speakers like jamming with your mate or teaching (a 7 year old, who won't know good speakers from bad!) the onboard speakers will be more than adequate.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2079127 - 05/08/13 05:18 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Fair point, EssBrace. Fair point. smile
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2080646 - 05/11/13 07:20 AM Re: Searching desperately for comp. speakers to sit on DP [Re: Maechre]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Update!

I was telling my sister's fiance about how I was hoping to find some speakers that would beat the 150's own speakers. Turns out he had a compact 2.1 system that he didn't use anymore and said I could have it. I tested it out on my keyboard (an older non-weighted Casio) and I was very pleased with the sound. They'll be nice for when I come home, and later on when I have a more static setup.

Here's what I've got.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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