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Topic Options
#2078192 - 05/06/13 09:09 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Qbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
You could consider also one of the newest and maybe best action (with triple sensor) equipped keyboard: Numa Concert.


Edited by Qbert (05/06/13 09:10 AM)
_________________________
GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m

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#2078269 - 05/06/13 11:34 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Qbert]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Originally Posted By: Qbert
You could consider also one of the newest and maybe best action (with triple sensor) equipped keyboard: Numa Concert.

It has no speakers and 'only' 9 layered samples.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2078340 - 05/06/13 02:12 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Qbert]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
May I ask you why do you think the Numa Concert has the best action
Is it the Fatar TP40 which is used in there ?
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2078354 - 05/06/13 02:32 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
TP40 Wood with triple sensor (and perhaps some other small improvements we don't know about). Seems to be a good keybed. Pitty no-one sells the Studiologic in our country, cause I would have liked to be able to test it somewhere.

@ Cmin; with all due respect , but to my knowledge the Kawai PHI 'only' has four layers and the amount of layers on the Roland SN is unknown. Both use special interpolation algorithms to smooth out layer transitions, but the Numa concert does that as well, so layer transitions should be inaudible. All-in-all the NUMA offers the most layers of these offerings and some nice sounding piano modeling effects and has the most recent recorded piano sample base of all brands, apart from the coming Kurzweil Artis. All the other known brands have been using the same old or older base material for years in a row , just adding an extra layer or longer samples here and there or offering an extra modeling effect (Roland added soundboard resonance, but seems to have ditched the lid simulation). So the NUMA seems to be a nice package offering - presumably - good keys and fresh new and dynamic piano sounds.

Indeed it doesn't have the speakers...

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#2078364 - 05/06/13 02:40 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: JFP]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: JFP
TP40 Wood with triple sensor (and perhaps some other small improvements we don't know about). Seems to be a good keybed. Pitty no-one sells the Studiologic in our country, cause I would have liked to be able to test it somewhere.

Isnt it the same keybed as the one used in the Physis Piano ?
I tested the Physis piano and found the keybed quite good (but not superior to others brand)


Edited by enzo.sandrolini (05/06/13 02:49 PM)
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2078397 - 05/06/13 03:24 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Seems to be the same yes. Again all from product info, Internet posts and hearsay; neither the Physis , nor the Studiologics are on display here. What's also important is how well the keybed and sound are matched , giving the player good feedback and control over what he/ she is playing. Just a good keybed is only half of the story, though its the starting point, cause a good sound with shitty keybed = big frustration & no use.

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#2078426 - 05/06/13 04:16 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: JFP]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
I know we are getting a bit (very) side tracked here, but....
JFP check this Roland video. It seems that Super Natural has a different technology concerning the dynamic layers.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2078809 - 05/07/13 12:20 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: JFP]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: JFP
Requirement of onboard speakers leaves ES7 and Fp-80 in the race if you want some speakers that make enough noise and are of reasonable quality (for build-in speakers). Keybed's are quite alike. They both have some good EP's and Organs too, but the Roland has more sounds and options to tweak them (tone wheel simulation). The AP sound is a matter of taste. Some like Roland SN Piano, others like the Kawai Grand sound. Also there is a price difference (if you're not in the States) ; the ES7 is cheaper and by the way a tad lighter.

All-in-all I think you have to try both the ES and FP , but of you need a bigger palette of onboard sounds the Roland has more to offer , but at a higher price. The RD700NX has more AP SN sounds to choose from and is a real stage controller piano , whilst the others are NOT. Different design, different purpose. From your list, the FP80 might be a better fit, since you don't particularly list extensive master keyboard controls as a requirement.


So we're back at the beginning. The only reason NX keeps on coming up is because Enthusiast keeps on bringing the NX back in the mix again and again. First advice of most posters (like myself) was indeed go for the FP or ES. In other words Enthusiast may have to get back to the drawing board and decide what he 'really' wants from a board, stick to that and take a pick. ES/FP and NX different kind of breed , different purpose, different setup (external speakers etc); you'll have to make a choice at some point...


Built in speakers are just preferable for me not a necessity which opens up more options. I already knew the MP6 and NX 700 didn't have them when I started the topic. Maybe they offer enough advantages to offset that deficiency though.

Yes I will have to rethink what I want as I'm still learning about the potential possibilities offered in DPs. I've picked up a lot of good info from this thread though but I'll know more when I've had the chance to visit a few shops and try them out.

Another thing I may do is take a couple of lessons from a teacher who specializes in adult beginners and gives a free trial. It'll give me a chance to get a good go on an acoustic so I have a point of reference when trying out DPs.

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#2078845 - 05/07/13 02:09 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Hi 1st post here, I'm a beginner looking to take up the piano and would like to learn on a DP. Mostly interested in the models mentioned and this would be a long term investment also to be used by young relatives to learn on and have fun with.

Main requirements:
Key action that is closer to an AP
Great piano sound
Good selection of voices (particularly organs and strings)
Portable and not too heavy
On board speakers would be preferable

I'd be particularly interested to know if the RD700NX is worth paying extra for someone with my requirements.

As an owner, 700NX is a heavy slab. I think you should look at the Yamaha P-105 just in case first. You're not going to find light weight, great piano sound, great key action, on-board speakers all-in-one. If my DP were suddenly destroyed, I would rush out and grab an economical P-105, personally.

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#2078862 - 05/07/13 03:05 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: xorbe]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: xorbe
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Hi 1st post here, I'm a beginner looking to take up the piano and would like to learn on a DP. Mostly interested in the models mentioned and this would be a long term investment also to be used by young relatives to learn on and have fun with.

Main requirements:
Key action that is closer to an AP
Great piano sound
Good selection of voices (particularly organs and strings)
Portable and not too heavy
On board speakers would be preferable

I'd be particularly interested to know if the RD700NX is worth paying extra for someone with my requirements.

As an owner, 700NX is a heavy slab. I think you should look at the Yamaha P-105 just in case first. You're not going to find light weight, great piano sound, great key action, on-board speakers all-in-one. If my DP were suddenly destroyed, I would rush out and grab an economical P-105, personally.


According to the specs it's 25kg (55lbs) which would be ok. ES7 would be 22kg and the FP-80 23.8kg so not much between them. It's Nothing like my old CRT TV which weighed nearly 50kg and something I had to carry (with someone else) up and down the stairs a few times.

In terms of size I'd need to see them in person. So far I've only seen and tried out the MP6 which didn't seem too big at all.

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#2079110 - 05/08/13 03:23 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Valencia, Spain
If you are an absolute beginner perhaps you shouldn't go for NX or MP6, as they are designed for live music, I mean both are true stage pianos with lots of functions you'll never use.
The ES7 and FP80 are portable but mostly built for home pratice or small gigs, they include less sounds and buttons and are relatively simple to use.
The quality of AP sounds is about the same in this range, and it will end in a matter of taste. ES7 has good average sounds and speakers, and I guess the same for Rolands and other brads. I don't know how many time you are going to dedicate to your daily lessons/practice, but unless you were a genius, such NX or the like will run out of parts before you use half of its functions. And the time you should spend playing or studing music, will be spent reading user's guide.
I would stay near ES7/FP80/Yam. P155 range.
(I won't drive a Porsche as a daily first car).


Edited by mabraman (05/08/13 03:24 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2083823 - 05/16/13 08:12 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: mabraman]
cabi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/15/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Brazil
I am beginner and I tried the yamaha CP 50 and roland fp7.I didn´t like the piano sound(SN) in the FP7, metalic sound for my amateur ears.The cp 50 piano sound is better for me, the action seemed better too, heavier Keys than fp 7 keys.The EPs in CP 50 are good for my taste. Are there better EPs in FP 80 or CP50?

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#2084778 - 05/18/13 01:55 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: cabi]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: cabi
I am beginner and I tried the yamaha CP 50 and roland fp7.I didn´t like the piano sound(SN) in the FP7, metalic sound for my amateur ears.The cp 50 piano sound is better for me, the action seemed better too, heavier Keys than fp 7 keys.The EPs in CP 50 are good for my taste. Are there better EPs in FP 80 or CP50?


Is that the fp-7 or fp-7f? The fp-7 is quite a bit older isn't it whereas the fp-7f is very similar to the fp-80? I've arranged a lesson on an acoustic next week so that I'll have a better idea of what to look for when I go to the shops. Might have a couple more too on different pianos to get started. My nephew gets occasional access to a grand piano and a Yamaha Clavinova DP at his school and he'll come along too.

How does the new Casio Px-5S compare to the others? Key touch, sound quality, extra sounds/features etc. It seems small and very light but are the keys shortened to achieve that?

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#2084831 - 05/18/13 03:59 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
cabi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/15/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Brazil
Sorry, I wanted to say FP7F not FP7. FP 80 I Watched in the internet video and the EPs are better than FP7F and AP has a metalic sound too. I liked Kawai ES7 , but the AP soud of CP 50 is better for my taste, but it must be replaced in the next year, probably.

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#2085335 - 05/19/13 05:11 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
About the metallic sound, based on my experience with my HP-505, which pretty much has the same electronics inside as the FP7F / FP-80, according to what I read about those portables:

The following parameters affect very similar parts of the sound, and thus should be adjusted in relation to each other:
KEY TOUCH (= key dynamics to volume and timbre translation)
BRILLIANCE (= brightness of sound adjustment)

If I have either too sensitive reacting KEY TOUCH or too high BRILLIANCE adjusted, then heavy strikes on the keys easily result in the timbre to feature too strong the overtones which color the sound towards a more "metallic" timbre. These overtones are in general nice and natural to have, i.e for hitting low tones ff or high tones fff. Well, if not adjusted well, then these overtones already appear on my HP-505 dominant at mf and f playing, which is of course too exaggerating. I suppose that this is what you experience as well and commented on.

My simple solution is, to never play with the neutral KEY TOUCH setting.
I sometimes play with the KEY TOUCH = H2 (the most heavy setting), then these overtones hardly appear anymore, already no more for the midrange tones, they are only achievable for the low tones. I at H2 do balance BRILLIANCE to the max value (= 10) then, in order to compensate for in my taste a generally already too strong reduction of the bright overtones everywhere. If here not rising the BRILLIANCE extremely, then the sound can sound muffled, but if compensated with the BRILLIANCE then to me SN sound is (almost) perfectly fine. I say almost, because I love these overtones at ff playing, and at H2 to my impression they are already restricted too much and the BRILLIANCE compensating is not completely satisfying.

So, most often I play at KEY TOUCH = H1, and then balance BRILLIANCE = 7. With some reverb (AMBIENCE = 3) this to me sounds just perfect, not muffled, sweet and warm up to f, and at ff to fff able to explode in volume with a nicely accompanying change of less warm but sharper and brighter timbre during the attack phase of the tone.

(with headphones I by the way don´t need to rise BRILLIANCE. I use for H2 the BRILLIANCE at its neutral value, and for H1 even lower it to "-2")

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#2085924 - 05/20/13 05:53 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Marco M]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Had my first lesson today, on an acoustic (a Kawai) in a piano shop. Been a while since I had the chance to touch an acoustic piano but it felt as I expected it to however the keys were really quite slippery.

On the way out I noticed a digital, the Kawai CS7 I think.
http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CS_KDP/cs7.html
Not sure if it's the same one but it had that wooden key sample you see in MP10 vids and the piano looked just like the one in the link. I could really notice the difference in feel between the acoustic I'd just been learning on and this one. Also it had non slip keys. It was switched off though so I couldn't hear it's sound.

Is Kawai's grand feel action as good as it gets on a DP?

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#2086151 - 05/21/13 07:37 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Had my first lesson today, on an acoustic (a Kawai) in a piano shop. Been a while since I had the chance to touch an acoustic piano but it felt as I expected it to however the keys were really quite slippery.

On the way out I noticed a digital, the Kawai CS7 I think.
http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CS_KDP/cs7.html
Not sure if it's the same one but it had that wooden key sample you see in MP10 vids and the piano looked just like the one in the link. I could really notice the difference in feel between the acoustic I'd just been learning on and this one. Also it had non slip keys. It was switched off though so I couldn't hear it's sound.

Is Kawai's grand feel action as good as it gets on a DP?
I think you are talking about two different things. Action refers to not the caps on the keys but the mechanism that allows the hammer to strike the strings (or in the DP's case, the imitation of that feel). Some APs and DPs will have a faux ivory feel to the keys, others just plastic. Maybe I misunderstood your post, so sorry if that's the case.

All DPs and APs have a different feel, and even if you are playing two Kawai APs they will feel different depending on how it's been regulated and voiced. DPs are generally more consistent in the action between instruments of the same model, but DPs of the same make can be quite different.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2086373 - 05/21/13 04:55 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Morodiene]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Had my first lesson today, on an acoustic (a Kawai) in a piano shop. Been a while since I had the chance to touch an acoustic piano but it felt as I expected it to however the keys were really quite slippery.

On the way out I noticed a digital, the Kawai CS7 I think.
http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CS_KDP/cs7.html
Not sure if it's the same one but it had that wooden key sample you see in MP10 vids and the piano looked just like the one in the link. I could really notice the difference in feel between the acoustic I'd just been learning on and this one. Also it had non slip keys. It was switched off though so I couldn't hear it's sound.

Is Kawai's grand feel action as good as it gets on a DP?
I think you are talking about two different things. Action refers to not the caps on the keys but the mechanism that allows the hammer to strike the strings (or in the DP's case, the imitation of that feel). Some APs and DPs will have a faux ivory feel to the keys, others just plastic. Maybe I misunderstood your post, so sorry if that's the case.

All DPs and APs have a different feel, and even if you are playing two Kawai APs they will feel different depending on how it's been regulated and voiced. DPs are generally more consistent in the action between instruments of the same model, but DPs of the same make can be quite different.


Yes I was describing two different things, the feel of the key surface and the action of the keys. I tried out a Yamaha acoustic today and that did feel a little different (slightly heavier keys and not as slippery). However they both felt noticeably different (action & key surface) to the the DP in the shop (CS7?). I would need more time to test them really but I was expecting a great DP action like that (Grand Feel?) to be closer at least from my inexperienced viewpoint.

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#2093506 - 06/01/13 05:40 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Finally had a chance to try them all out today and also the Kawai CA95 and MP10.

The FP-80 which I had been most likely to go for and which was set up just below an ES7 was very disappointing. The piano sound was weak and dull and the other voices didn't impress. The ES7 on the other hand sounded much brighter, clearer and more powerful. The church organ sound was also very nice. Couldn't really tell which was the better of the 2 in terms of action.

The CA95 felt and sounded really good, the pedals felt exactly like on the Kawai acoustic I'd been playing just before. If I could find a good permanent spot for this in the house I'd seriously consider it.

RD-700NX I think was hurt by the speakers they had on it in there. It sounded rather muffled. I was however very impressed with the Mid Pipe Organ voice, it was probably my favourtie organ sound out of those I tried. This was way ahead of the others in terms of sounds/features and I'm sure we'd have a lot of fun with them. The action felt quite different from all the others I noticed, don't know how to describe it. The FP-80 is supposed to feel the same but didn't to me.

The MP10 I thought had the action that came closest to the Kawai acoustic Piano I'd been playing. It also had the heaviest keys (a good thing I think). Sound wise I can't recall too well as I was focusing more on the action and again the speakers might not have been ideal. It has the least number of instrument voices and no organs which is unfortunate. It's rather bulky and heavy too but not unmanageable. It also doesn't have the triple sensor of the others but does this really matter that much? I'm a beginner but would it become significant later on?

After today I'm veering towards the MP10 for it's highly impressive key action. I will learn to use VST's to get round the lack of sounds on it. I'll go back next week with my headphones and hopefully make a final decision soon after.

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#2093659 - 06/01/13 10:20 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Finally had a chance to try them all out today and also the Kawai CA95 and MP10.

The FP-80 which I had been most likely to go for and which was set up just below an ES7 was very disappointing. The piano sound was weak and dull and the other voices didn't impress.

When trying to FP pianos, be sure to take into consideration that the piano sounds (Roland's SuperNatural Piano) are quite customizable. You can change many different resonance settings as well as the EQ. It's totally possible that someone else had changed the settings to create a duller sound before you (if, in fact, you didn't try changing any of them). The RD series, of course, has the same settings and at least theoretically the same basic piano sounds (and you're right about the speakers that were connected to it -- try those two side by side with headphones and if the customizable piano settings are set the same on both, I'll bet the sound will be identical or very close).

I'm less familiar with Kawai digitals, but will agree that the MP10 feels awesome. I love Roland's SuperNatural piano sounds though, and their action is great as well.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2096047 - 06/05/13 09:17 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Thomas Williams]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Thomas Williams
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Finally had a chance to try them all out today and also the Kawai CA95 and MP10.

The FP-80 which I had been most likely to go for and which was set up just below an ES7 was very disappointing. The piano sound was weak and dull and the other voices didn't impress.

When trying to FP pianos, be sure to take into consideration that the piano sounds (Roland's SuperNatural Piano) are quite customizable. You can change many different resonance settings as well as the EQ. It's totally possible that someone else had changed the settings to create a duller sound before you (if, in fact, you didn't try changing any of them). The RD series, of course, has the same settings and at least theoretically the same basic piano sounds (and you're right about the speakers that were connected to it -- try those two side by side with headphones and if the customizable piano settings are set the same on both, I'll bet the sound will be identical or very close).

I'm less familiar with Kawai digitals, but will agree that the MP10 feels awesome. I love Roland's SuperNatural piano sounds though, and their action is great as well.


Yes I think you must be right about that. I can't see how the FP-80 would get as much praise as it does if it normally sounded like it did in the shop. I'll look into the settings next time particularly on the 700NX which I found far more interesting to use.

Someone mentioned the ES7 had 4 layers. Is that to do with dynamics? 4 levels of touch response doesn't seem too impressive considering that's also what my 20 + year old keyboard has. It's another thing to look into next visit.


Edited by Enthusiast (06/05/13 09:22 AM)

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#2096069 - 06/05/13 09:56 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3412
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Someone mentioned the ES7 had 4 layers. Is that to do with dynamics? 4 levels of touch response doesn't seem too impressive considering that's also what my 20 + year old keyboard has. It's another thing to look into next visit.

In theory, more velocity layers creates more natural sounding dynamics. In practice, not always the case. But I don't think any pianos had 4 velocity layers 20+ years ago. Your "touch response" reference sounds like it's probably a velocity curve setting, which is entirely different.

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#2096084 - 06/05/13 10:14 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: anotherscott]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Someone mentioned the ES7 had 4 layers. Is that to do with dynamics? 4 levels of touch response doesn't seem too impressive considering that's also what my 20 + year old keyboard has. It's another thing to look into next visit.

In theory, more velocity layers creates more natural sounding dynamics. In practice, not always the case. But I don't think any pianos had 4 velocity layers 20+ years ago. Your "touch response" reference sounds like it's probably a velocity curve setting, which is entirely different.


Yes possibly I don't understand the differences as I'm quite new to all this. Next time I'll be going to the shop directly after a lesson on an acoustic hopefully with my teacher in tow. I'll also be interested to test the 2 sensor vs 3 sensor feature on these models. It's a bit of a concern with regards the MP10 which I really liked.

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#2096089 - 06/05/13 10:19 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Ewen Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 9
I have an MP6; it has 4 Zones - is that what you mean?
Each zone can be the full keyboard or any part of it, and each can have a different sound, or Layer

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#2096112 - 06/05/13 10:46 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Ewen]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Ewen
I have an MP6; it has 4 Zones - is that what you mean?
Each zone can be the full keyboard or any part of it, and each can have a different sound, or Layer


No, I meant the levels of volume you get depending on how hard/fast you strike the key.

I still remember when I went to keyboard class 20 years ago the keyboards they had us playing on didn't have this at all. My own keyboard at home had touch response though and far better sound so I used to think I had something special laugh

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#2096288 - 06/05/13 03:12 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast


Someone mentioned the ES7 had 4 layers. Is that to do with dynamics? 4 levels of touch response doesn't seem too impressive considering that's also what my 20 + year old keyboard has. It's another thing to look into next visit.


Although the ES may or may not be using 4 sampled layers of different volume strikes (e.g. pp mp mf ff); that's not something you will notice because of the PHI processing which smooths the sound all the way going from ppp to fff. So no audible switches or anything, don't worry about that. Piano's with many more layers may, or may not sound better, depending on the additional algorithms used (like PHI / SN) and on the quality of the samples itself and the way they gradually match each other in increasing velocity. Amount of ROM, layers, samples doesn't say all about the sound and playability of the DP. You can have 5GB piano emulations, with 16 layers and still a crappy end result.

PHI = Progressive Harmonic Imaging (Kawai)
SN = Super Natural (Roland)

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#2105605 - 06/21/13 08:00 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: JFP]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
I was having a really hard time deciding and ended up wanting to choose between the RD700NX and the MP10 but considering the talk about successors for both by next year I didn't go for either.

I was very tempted to get the ES7 especially considering there were a couple of places selling it at just over £1100 with the lovely furniture stand and triple pedal attachment for free. That's about the same price a Yamaha P-155 goes for here without any stand/triple pedal. The rather shallow key travel put me off though and I felt it's action was overshadowed by the MP10. The RD700NX also overshadowed the FP-80 for me too.

I ended up getting a cheap Yamaha P-35 for now just to get started which I'll likely sell off and upgrade from when the successors to the MP10 and NX eventually come out. For it's price (£350 including a free stand, headphones and sustain pedal) I'm impressed.

When I was in the shops trying out Yamaha's however I made the mistake of going from the CVP 609 and AvantGrand series to the P-35. It had a light, plastic and somewhat hollow feeling to the action in comparison. Still when I compared it to my old keyboard it was a major upgrade and when playing at home now I can really feel and hear the difference. I'd also like to learn to use VST's with it. If I got confident enough with that I could also consider upgrading to the VPC1 in the future.

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#2105649 - 06/21/13 09:24 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 249
Loc: Czech Republic
What exactly did you like better about RD700NX than FP80?

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#2105677 - 06/21/13 10:28 AM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Hookxs]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 245
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Hookxs
What exactly did you like better about RD700NX than FP80?


Mainly the extra sounds & features on it. My teacher who tried it out seemed to like the Studio Grand piano sound on the NX best which is not featured on the FP-80. There were a number of other great sounds on the NX that were missing on the FP-80 like the impressive Mid Pipe organ. I mentioned before that I noticed a subtle difference in the key touch but the last time I went to the shop I didn't get enough chance to check up on this more.

The ES7 placed just above the FP-80 also blew it away in terms of sound and power. As someone else mentioned in this thread however this might have been caused by the settings on the FP-80.

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#2108619 - 06/26/13 06:36 PM Re: Kwai ES7, MP6, Roland FP-80 or RD700NX [Re: Enthusiast]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
Dude where did you find the ES7 for £1100 with stand and pedal unit?

Myself I am very very stuck between 700nx (£1400) and ES7, nowhere has an ES7 to try.

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