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How successful a venture to hopefully be held at Carnegie Hall were the greatest select pianists are invited to compete against one another. Lets say this event will have technical feats similar to Chopin vs Liszt were the sight read masterpieces. Scales in all shapes in styles, playing chamber music etc. lets say its topped of by a one million dollar prize. You invite to precipitate Perahia, Sokolov, Brendel etc the best professionals. What do you think would be the resulting interest and results?

If I were one of the top performing artists, I would not enter this competition. The winner could not possibly earn more anything by entering (prestige, audience, accolades, etc); and everyone else "loses". Considering judging is subjective at best, there's no way I'd even consider it if I were one of the top artists.

However, if they were to agree to it, I think it would be a highly watched event.

I think if you have Perahia, Sokolov, Goode, Lang Lang (he is a thrown in I really do not admire him), Hough, Hamelin, Serkin, Berezovsky?, etc. it would be a very big media event. Say the prize is 2 million, 1 million and 1/2 million in prize money for the top three finishers. I think this could break whatever 10 day attendence figures for Carnegie Hall. Maybe add the winners of the Tchaikowsky, Leeds and Van Cliburn.

I find the idea mildly interesting but mainly nauseating.

Competitions are bad enough among unknowns, even though they do seem to be a part of the musical world, but I find the idea of holding a competition among well-established pianists something far beneath the artistry that these men and women (should)represent.

Oh sure, there will always be people who thrive on Rubinstein vs. Horowitz or Sutherland vs. Callas and intelligent discussions about the virtues of each may be productive.

However, to those who want a full-fledged competition purely for the sake of declaring a winner, I really wish them better things to do, such as enjoying the individual artistry that each musician has to offer. Leave the puerile titillation of "I am better than you!" to the likes of so-called reality shows.

Regards,

I think a slightly better question would be "which living pianist has the best technique?". I'd say Pogorelich.

Good definition of "puerile" (perhaps):
giggling over the word "titillation"

This made me actually log in just to reply to this post. Are you serious? Have you heard him after he came out of his retirement? And have you heard the usual suspects (ie: Wang, Hamelin, Volodos, etc?)

I am still interested in the 21st century Chopin vs Liszt result. Pianist would need to improvise on a theme maybe with variations and each one on one would have a winner. Somehow I think it would be a big success. Thing Hamelin vs Perahia needing to take a theme and improvise 6 variations in front of a Carnegie Hall audience and with judges like Argerich(if she is not competing) etc. The eleven o'clock news would give the country updates it could bring classical music a much needed infusion of energy and attention

Are YOU serious? As if his technique got worse because he chooses to play things slowly?

The way he played at the Chopin competition required an insane amount of dexterity and stamina. I've never seen anyone play anything with such conviction at those speeds.

And I'd bet Pogorelich can do anything Wang, Hamelin and Volodos can do.

That was then, this is now. He's not the same. And the difference probably involves dimensions way outside of "dexterity" or "stamina."

You're going to have to elaborate.

Although I agree with Derulux and Mark here, I was impressed by Pogorelich's Schumann Toccata, which I heard on Youtube. I prefer it to Horowitz's.

No I don't.

And that shouldn't cause any problem for you. I'm sure that if you search a little bit, you'll find lots of stuff about this, much of it speculative -- but you'll get the idea of what kind of thing is probably involved.

I also thought of a name "The World Championship of Piano". We would need to get the Rockefeller or Gates Foundation to sponsor this event. With the revenue going to sponsor full scholarships at the Worlds Finest Conservatories.

Golly you're persistent.

Aren't you seeing that just about nobody thinks this is any kind of idea?

(Please tell us you're joking.)

Yeah, I'm actually pretty serious. It's not just the fast stuff, or the slow stuff. It's just that if you gauge technique as dexterity, he doesn't have that now, or it's clearly not working out for him. He's completely removed anything resembling "virtuosity", "technique", or possibly even "allegro" from his musical vocabulary - you can hear it in a lot of his recent pirated recordings. Maybe he's still able to bring the house down by playing Islamey, but no, I don't think he's a strong contender for the title of "omg lyk, teh best tekniq evars" (sorta silly, hence the bad spelling) anymore. Musically, he's in a different universe. But in terms of raw technique...no.

Imagine to say that this Monday night we would have two pianists competing against each other in scales, improvisation and their favorite repertoire while the judges are perhaps pianists like Pressler etc who decide the victor. Can you imagine Perahia vs Sokolov. A display of scales and arpeggios , then improvisation on a theme. Then both play some Bach Goldberg variations, Mozart Sonata, Beethoven Apassionata, Chopin Etudes galore, Prokofiev 7th piano sonata. Can you imagine the ruckus that would cause. NYC would be ablaze every night of the competition. It would be front page news for each World newspaper. People would gladly pay hundreds of dollars for a seat.

...or not.

His technical flaws and ridiculously slow tempos don't lend themselves to the most musical renditions of very many pieces.

Serge, are you reading any of this?

I guess not.

Not since his last post, at least.

(Only one thing's been said, what has he missed? )

I'm not so sure about that front page news bit. It's not a sporting competition, after all. Oh wait...

Joel, I think this post was fine in itself. You felt it needed elaboration. I don't.
Especially since the basic kinds of things involved are fairly common knowledge (among those who are interested), although we can only guess about most of the details within it.

If you want more discussion of it, maybe start a separate thread on it. I won't want to participate much, for a variety of reasons, but I'm sure quite a few people would gladly talk about what's probably involved.

Would it annoy you more if he didn't engage in conversation in the first place?

How do you link to a specific post like that?

Oh, I see, you add "#Post" and then the post number after the URL of the thread.

Gentlemen I am in constant contact with this thread. But still it has captured my attention.

But evidently what we've been saying hasn't.

Yep, that gets a thumb. hahaha


Serge- in all seriousness, instead of continuing to push your point/agenda, try responding thoughtfully to the people who have posted. It might create a more engaging conversation.

You were doing fine until you wrote this.

That sounds like a great show. Please send a ticket when it happens!! I don't think I could afford to get into the back of the audience of that one

Sounds like a Monty Python skit, should be great!

Personally, I prefer the collaborative approach when you get a din (or herd, or collection, or stampede, or conglomeration, or....) of great virtuosi - each (secretly) trying to out-do the other:

Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, as you've never heard it before (and might not ever wish to hear again ): http://youtu.be/EQd2pse-psU

A Rossini overture. Question: What does an orchestra of pianists do prior to the start?
(Answer: they tune up) http://youtu.be/M5G71_vGrYw

Well, there's a question mark over his technique,and sorry, that takes him out of the race, because there are so many others where you don't have that issue.

I feel like this is a non-conversation because all you're doing is quoting bits of people's posts and giving passive-aggressive replies. If you really thing Pogorelich has the best technique today, why not explain it yourself?

I don't think it's the responsibility of me to prove why he's not the best - I think it's yours to actually give proof that today he's even worth considering.

No they wouldn't.
Just look at Olympic sports with judges; like Figure Skating.
The participants have a few minutes each; and still it has less spectators than an average Football game.
So if each pianist had to play all the pieces...

I'm guessing that you are indeed joking.

I'm not married to the idea that Pogorelich has "the best" technique. 1980s Pogo is a fitting candidate for such a contest if you ask me, but if his technique really has gone to heck somehow then so be it.

Where things went south is when you decided to mock me:



This is no way to have a productive conversation.

This whole thread has a BachMach atmosphere to it. Sort of weird and inscrutable intent on the part of the OP. Joke? Serious?

Yeah -- but Serge's history here doesn't suggest anything like that. I vote for completely serious.

If serious, then I would seriously consider packing my bags and moving out of the States if such an event ever occurred here!
Well.. maybe it's more like

I think it would make a great live-action episode of Celebrity Deathmatch.

Ohh...okay oops. Sorry about that. Though IMO, it's not exactly the a very "answerable" question...but yeah, in hindsight, probably the leetspeak wasn't warranted. Apologies!

No damage done.

Now that my gag reflex is back under control, I have to say that no pianist of any repute would demean themselves by participating in such an event. (Or, that is my hope, anyway).

However, I appreciate and share your desire to spread classical music to a wider audience. So, along this line, I would much prefer something like an American Idol for young, budding, unknown classical musicians. Even though classical music is not well liked in America, I think the sheer novelty of it might attract quite a substantial audience -- at least for the first couple of shows. Of course, the show would need to be consistently entertaining enough to retain the audience, but I think it could definitely fire up some interest in classical music.

Of course, finding entertaining judges would also be a challenge. Maybe a panel of PW folks? I think Mark C, Plover, and stores would make a fine panel, with Kreisler on hand to maintain order and confiscate any sharp objects.

That could work OK as long as I was chairman.

Sorry but I have already agreed to replace Nicky on American Idol.

It would bring us back to Liszt vs Tausig etc. I would love to hear competing premier pianist play all the major and minor scales in thirds or sixths. Improvise on a theme. Then movements of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt and Prokofiev. Can you image if it were 1960 and Richter and Horowitz pair off. They would still be talking about it. Back in the 1840-1850's I believe there were several spectacles performed by the best pianist of Europe. Really now we could have Sokolov vs Volodos, Perahia Vs Zimmerman, Brendel vs Goode, Watts vs Bere????, Lang Lang vs Kissin, etc. I think you could charge 200/seat and record each event on DVD.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm sure BruceD or Damon could fill in.

Well, I think you really can't let go of this, can you?

I think you sorely underestimate the cost of this endeavor, and the prices people would be willing to pay.

To pay out $2M, you would have to raise $713.27 per seat just to break even. Not including the cost of the people who work the venue, or the electric bill.

Now, if it was televised, you'd have a better shot..

It would probably be something like a Superbowl of classical music. Maybe people would pay thousands for tickets.

Simple solution : Get someone like Budweiser, Nike or Ford to sponsor the event (covering all costs), and the pianist who does the best paraphrase on the commercial jingle is the winner and gets

1) a year's supply of Bud
2) a dozen pair of Nike
3) a free one-year lease on a Ford Fiesta!

Ta-da!!



Cheers

Joel- I left that part out (what people would be willing to pay). I've no idea, but I'm sure "thousands" is probably in the right market.


Bruce- Love the prizes. For a year's supply of Bud, I might even enter myself..

Dam!

Serge: Forget it, that does it -- Plover is irreplaceable.