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Hi Matt!

I cant resist posting in this thread even though I've only been a lurker before (for 4 years!!! I'm hooked).

I played for one or two years as a child but I never practiced then. I started feeling very drawn to piano at 23 and two years later I started lessons with my current teacher. I went hypomanic and practiced, practiced, practiced. If I wasn't practicing it was because I was having a panic attack, drinking too much alcohol or falling asleep with the help of benzodiazepines or screaming and throwing stuff because I was feeling so frustrated. I've done ten to twenty hour piano days for 2.5 years now. I've practiced at the expense of my social life, my health and my university studies. Results: I'm completely isolated from the real world, the ONLY thing I feel connected to is piano. My right wrist was sore for a while even though my teacher is extra careful about playing with as little tension as possible. Also I can't feel any feelings anymore not even anxiety, I'm numb. Recently there have been days when all I could do was sit and stare at a wall (it actually felt good compared to the anxiety).. But .. my teacher is amazed at how well I'm playing for an adult beginner! I've tried to act as cool as possible and hide this obsession but maybe I havent been able to she keeps saying " you're not normal". Today I met with a psychiatrist and she recommended I start taking Quetiapine, an atypical antipsychotic.

I just want to warn you piano can be a very dangerous hobby! Don't leave everything else behind, don't do ten hour days too often..

I can't sing very well but I sing loud and proud in my head as I play Bohemian on the piano lol. But I don't play Bohemian as it is in the original - I play the "voice" as well. I'm sure there's a proper term for this. I play the piece as it was originally but add in the singing. Do you know what I mean?

Hi omnia probans,

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. You said you have been doing 10 to 20 hour piano days for 2.5 years. Out of the 10-20 hours, how many hours per day do you spend at the piano practicing or playing (time actually at the piano hitting keys)?

Also, are you continuing to do this even though you recognize all of the problems arising out of this?

I sincerely hope you you get well and begin to feel emotion again and recover from all of the associated problems.

Thank you for sharing and your warning. I don't know if you also mis-read what I was asking about 10 hour piano days - that I would be playing piano for 2-4 hours and spending the rest of the time reading, studying, watching, listening, learning etc. That is why I am curious how you spent your 10-20 hour days and how long you would actually play for each day?

I wish you all the best, Matt

That is not the first time you've used that expression when referring to playing the piano or practicing material at the piano. As you get more experience, you will, I hope, realize that good pianists don't "hit" the keys.

Regards,

Good pianists caress the keys .

There is, however, a language problem here. What verb do you propose? I haven't come up with any, which is why I ask. (Now to catch up to the thread. )

It's not a joke, but it is misunderstood advice which is too often given. The point is learning to read music. Reading in this case means to be able to look at written music and be able to play what is written. The advice aims to abolish dependence on looking at the hands as a way of orienting at the keyboard. I'd rather focus on the skill being aimed for and how to get it, rather than on a means that is supposed to bring that about, which has some flaws to it.

I haven't read all the posts but will offer a comment just the same.

No one practices ten hours a day let alone five. Don't believe me?

Take a stop watch and measure the amount of time you spend playing. When you stop to take a drink of coffee, tea, or water, the clock stops. When you take two minutes to walk around the room, the clock stops.

Report back and tell us if the amount of time you think you spend at the piano is close to what the stop watch tells you.

Piano involves many things, and once you become aware of them and chasing them, your hours will naturally stretch out. It is definitely not a matter of simply playing a piece as slowly as possible, never making a mistake, until it is perfect. As a creative person who loves discovery, it's all the other things that go with it which are fascinating. Piano involves much more than producing a piece of music.

In the single act of playing a series of notes one after the other as in a melody, you already have more things to explore beyond playing the right note in the right time. Will these notes all have the same loudness, or do you want to vary that - and do you know physically how to do that? What is the timing between the notes - is there a small space (staccato), do they almost blend (legato)? You can end up on tangents from either of these.

Two or more notes played at the same time brings you into harmony, harmony theory, maybe improvisation. Here's another branch to explore and develop.

There is music history, understanding genres of music, and other similar things. Btw, combined with the Internet, music history can get quite deep and also consume a lot of time. For example, when you learn about the Renaissance, you can find period dancers and period instruments, so that you can get a sense of what practical aims the musicians had and what types of things they had to work with. I was weak in history itself since all we studied in school was a perpetual "discovery of America", so there was a side study right there.

Learning to develop a piece of music involves working in chunks, on technical issues, and involves interpretation, at which you point you are applying knowledge from what you have studied, and playing skills that you have gleaned.

A caveat if you are a late starter: in doing all this you will have to balance out with the limitations you still have. Ofc these limitations also become your map of where you need to grow and what you want to develop. For example, coming back to piano after playing it self-taught when young, I knew that in a given piece, I'd want to bring out the main melody with lots of dynamics, while playing the LH accompaniment quietly, and things could be done with that too. My physical reality was that I could not play loud in one hand and soft in the other, let alone do subtle things. So I used very simple music, started off playing the quiet hand followed by the loud hand and gradually blending them together until the coordination was there. Eventually the subtle things were possible.**

** This example leads to "how to spend your 10 hours". As you identify a goal such as "I need to learn to play different dynamics with my two hands." because of the ultimate musical goal, you also get into various exercises, simpler music, and quite specific things. This also brings you into a much different kind of practising. Playing even 8 pairs of notes where you make one loud and one soft is exhausting when you're first getting it. Your neurons have to develop and your nervous system is working overtime. If you go at it for more than 15 minutes you've probably lost concentration. In fact, 5 minutes can be long. ---- Additionally, your goals of "what to practice" develop out of this kind of thing.

There are also limitations in listening, because our ability to hear (discern?) grows.

Sorry, this has become rambly.

Hey guys thanks for the responses.

I have told Keystring this but would like to let everyone know as a courtesy I won't be able to respond to every message in detail over the next few days. Just in case you ask questions or leave a long post. I will read it properly and respond when I can.

Bruce, I actually sympathize with this and will no longer refer to it as hitting keys

Key string, thanks for commenting on the not looking at your fingers topic. I understood what the aim was. Being able to read and play sheet music fluently is right at the top of my priorities as I develop my playing. What I didn't agree with was how to get there. If I never looked at my hands or fingers as a beginner, I would progress incredibly slowly. That wasn't to say I don't recognise the importance of being able to play eyes up at the sheet, just the process of getting there that was advised strongly

Dave, Aaaaarrrggghhh

I have posted about this so many times! I don't want to practice 10 hours per day (time actually at the piano gently caressing keys). I will be aiming for 2-4 hours per day and am after suggestions on how to spend the rest of my day on anything that might help develop myself as a pianist. I do completely understand your point about how time can be mis-judged. I learned this when I had to use a stop watch for working at home. A big eye opener to how many minutes are spent doing this and that and anything other than the task. Those minutes add up so fast it is unbelievable. However, I have actually used my same stop watch at the piano when I was curious. It was actually a coincidence due to the stop watch being right next to my keyboard.

Well, I don't think I have played 10 hours in a day but I have probably come very very close. I have however, done 5 hours in a day quite a few times. And 4 hours many times. That is mostly because I was practicing in long stretches with no breaks. I will no longer be doing that after what I have learned since starting these threads. Over the last few weeks though, it was not uncommon for me to text a friend and put my phone on top of the piano, play without breaks and without the phone going off, and getting interrupted by a reply 2-3 hours later. That happened numerous times and I checked the times because I was curious how long I had been playing for. I was/am very keen to play! But like I said, won't be doing that any longer.

Kind regards

That's what happens when you post a teaser topic like that - you get people who don't bother to read the thread before responding

I can accept that

I didn't mean for it to be a teaser at all. But now I can see how it could be taken that way

Watch this blog: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2013/apr/26/james-rhodes-blog-find-what-you-love

One piece of advice I can give is this, anytime you are listening to music whether in a shopping mall, on your car radio, in an elevator, analyze it. Typically music in public places is simple enough and repetitive enough (remind anyone of New Age music? ) to analyze. Assign scale degrees to the melody and Roman numerals (or function) to the harmony. It gives me something to do when my wife is shopping for shoes or clothes.

Thank you for your empathy! Lately I've been trying to do less music-related stuff and I've been feeling better.

You asked how I've spent my piano-hours.. maybe I exaggerated a little with those 10-20 hours but it IS close to the truth! I've spent maybe 1-6 hours a day actually playing. Its hard for me to tell you anything more precise. Also, a lot of my time at the piano is not time well used. Away from the piano, I've imagined playing the pieces I'm learning in slow motion. Not looking a the score I've written down names of all the notes of pieces I've memorized (in the correct order of course). I've recorded my playing and compared it to recordings of professionals or my teacher. I've studied Alexander technique and relaxation methods, I've learned a new way to stand, sit, walk and breathe. I often play in front of a mirror to check body and wrist positions. I've studied theory, some sight singing, started singing in a choir, seen tons of live performances, taken long walks listening to piano music and to recordings of my own playing, read music-related books. I've accompanied friends singing some pop songs, I've played for people so that I'd get used to doing it and I've even performed officially at two funerals. I just feel like wherever I am at least 40 % of me is constantly thinking about piano and its driving me crazy. This just feels so weird because nobody not even myself is making me do this, this is just happening.

To prevent injury and to learn to play with good precision I think mental practice is very important.

Melissa

Hmm... I wonder is it really driving you "crazy" or is that just a normal mindset for a musician? I guess the key is to balance the *extreme interest* so that it does not tip over into obsessiveness, which is where it starts to have a negative impact on your daily life and sense of well-being. Anyway, it's good you are doing more non-music things and feeling better. Hope you can stay dedicated to music and enjoy it and the rest of your life at the same time!

But then sometimes the piano reaches climax and it makes a huge mess. Ivory everywhere. Watch out for that.

Seems folks around here love semantics :-)

Ten hours a day. Sure, if you have the time go ahead. I can't give much advice concerning a practice schedule because my practice goes from 15 minutes of warmup to 1 - 3 hours of practicing whatever I am working on. I can tell you that my piano coach used to practice three hours, and yes it probably can kill your hands(my piano coach has an exercise for that though, message me if you are curious. It worked for him and his hands are fine)

With that kind of schedule I would think you could go far with piano. You are doing many of the things people have suggested I start doing. As long as your practice was focused and goal oriented. But if it is causing you problems like you said earlier, it may be best to stop or change your schedule

If 40% of you is constantly thinking about piano I don't think that's crazy, that's just having a passion for something. I think anyone who has gotten very far in their field has their passion on their mind a lot of the time. For my mate its body building and fitness. For me it's piano. I don't see it as a problem unless it has negative effects on your life, as cefinow mentioned. It does sound like it is causing you problems and may need to be thought through

Hi Tyler, thanks for the reply.

Yes would you please message me the exercise? I am interested in that.

I had to stop playing for a day and a half when my hands were in a lot of pain. I don't do crazy long practice days anymore but I'm still interested in hand exercises.

Thank you