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#2081084 - 05/11/13 10:59 PM Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ?
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Hi!

I do not place anything on my pianos so those marks were there when I got it and I want to remove them
From my search, looks like Meguiars Swirl removal should work.
This is a Young Chang Y185 and I have been told it is a Polyester finish.
Thanks!
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2081102 - 05/11/13 11:30 PM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Dale Fox Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1072
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
You may need to start with a slightly more aggressive polish and then use the swirl remover. It's polyester as you said so should be able to polished this way.

Anyone else have a thought?
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Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

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#2081141 - 05/12/13 01:20 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: Dale Fox]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1316
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Dale Fox
You may need to start with a slightly more aggressive polish and then use the swirl remover. It's polyester as you said so should be able to polished this way.

Anyone else have a thought?


Dale is correct.

The common mistake of the beginner is to use too fine of a grit too soon. Polishing will not remove scratches. The scratches first need to be removed with a sandpaper grit coarse enough to "get under" the scratch. Then, the scratches produced by the sandpaper need to be erased with succeedingly finer grits. Final luster is achieved with the paste or polish which has a very fine grit suspended in a liquid. Your last one or two steps may need to be done over the entire section or panel to maintain uniformity.
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USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2081143 - 05/12/13 01:30 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Thanks for the information guys!
BTW, those scratches are not normally visible you have to be on an angle under the right light to see them but it still bugs me when I dusting it.
Just letting you know in case the picture is giving the wrong impression.
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2081150 - 05/12/13 02:09 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
In your pictures, those scratches don't look super bad. Polyester will over time pick up all kinds of micro-scratches, some of them from dusting itself. Of course, on a new piano any kind of blemish can be an eyesore for the owner.
However:
Polishing out polyester properly/perfectly takes considerable skill and practice. People pay money to attend courses to learn the proper procedure. What can easily happen is that someone starts out with a small scratch or blemish they want to fix or polish out, and in the end, what was originally a small blemish has grown into a large unsightly area.

I highly recommend practicing your technique on an invisible area before tackling a visible one.

This could be high up on the inside of a leg or some other place that does not catch the eye. Ideally, remove the leg and support the piano on a saw horse or similar. (Sounding too involved already? Then best abandon the idea altogether.) Create a small scratch if you have to, and see of you can accomplish a perfect repair. Use good lighting and be critical of your work. Only then would I tackle a highly visible area such as the one you show.

But hey, some rush in where others fear to tread. I just want you to understand this is not without its challenges....
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Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

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#2081174 - 05/12/13 03:17 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 806
Loc: Seattle
Which is why I suggest to people to never buy the black high gloss car.
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AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
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Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

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#2081201 - 05/12/13 05:23 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Pianos & Pianos Mexico Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 46
Loc: Mexico
Its had to say or encourage you to have the job mad by yourself. firs of all look for for some body else

polyester polishing is the hardest finish to polish, it requires tons of practice and the right materials and tools. also is the hardest finish. is not a car finish (polyurethane), thats why is so durable and scratch resistance ( to normal wear)

but if you decide to go ahead try to find a hidden spot or better yet, look for a piano shop and ask if they can sell you an old board from a wasted piano who has polyester finish to practice on it

you´ll need
sanding rubber block 1/4 of sheet size
sand paper 3m wet-dry 600,800,1000,1200,1500,2000 grid
3m trizact 3000 grid foam abrasive disc
extra cut abrasive polishing compound
medium cut abrasive polishing compound
fine cut abrasive polishing compound
squirl mark remover abrasive polishing compound
100% carnauva wax
variable speed polisher machine
3m hook-it back for the polisher machine
white foam polisher pad
black fine foam polisher pad
blue skirl mark foam polisher pad

once you have the courage to start.

Disassemble the music rack and hold it on a table securely so it does´t move.
Cover with masking tape the sides and the felt.
Cut the 9X11 wet-dry 600 sand paper in 4 pieces and using the rubber block star by dry sanding the piece length wise until you don´t see the scratches, sand the hole piece and do not over sand the scratches or you lose the perfectly flat mirror surface. once done proceed to 800 in the opposite direction (cross wise) until you don't see ANY 600 scratch. from now on you have to wet sand and keep on as before, use a water spray bottle and do not over spray.

keep going cleaning and drying the pice to reveal scratches left by previous sand paper.

once you get to 3000 grid make sure that there´s not any scratch left behind only the 3000 scratch patron or you´ll have to start all over.

if you get this far

now you can start polishing..

But seriously. more scratches over the time are gonna appear. better wait a couple years and do the hole piano keep in mind that you can only deep polish it 2 or 3 times over the life of the piano depending on the thickness of the polyester.

to avoid more scratches use first a disposable electrostatic duster, then a very fine mist of water95%/5% isopropyl alcohol mix or piano finish cleaner over a microfiber towel (never spray the piano) and do not clean in circles only lengthwise.

Good luck
_________________________
Sergio L. Ruiz Jones
Piano Tech
Pianos & Pianos
Afinacin y Restauracin de pianos
www.pianosandpianos.com
Sergio.ruiz@pianosandpianos.com
Mazatln, Mexico.

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#2081234 - 05/12/13 07:43 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
good explanations - particularely dusting before using even a microfibre is important.
The scores are enough to scratch the polyester in time, there the poly hardness/quality play a role

for a cheap repair use directly the wax, it is sold also black, for cars.

it will shine correctly when front viewed, and have a whitish look under oblique sun rays.

The simpler method used on rented pianos is to use a polish that make a film on the surface so all microfine scratches diseappear.

You can also directly bottom a small scratch with cotton wheel on a polishing machine. it round the edges of the crack and you can sometime avoid sanding, at the cost of a slightly rounded surface.

The perfectly flat mirror is not an absolute necessity to me, , it will depend of the quality of the piano, the thickness of the finish high gloss polyester, which is sometime very thin.

There are differences in the easiness of cutting down, as some polyester are twice as hard as others.

The foam mounted 1500 - 3000 (or even 4000 but above 3000 we are yet polishing) are excellent, as they can be used wet with a machine.

The best tools for sanding before piano polishing are compressed air driven, and they are expensive. Those are kits used by automotive repairs, they have a flower style motion and perfect equilibrium. You can file directly a polyester repair without leaving more scratches.






Edited by Olek (05/12/13 07:45 AM)
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#2081293 - 05/12/13 10:10 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Whoa,

These are mico-scratches and it takes just the correct angle of light to even see them. They are inevitable with all piano finishes and it's best to not charge in where angles fear to go.

I would think that step one would be to try a simple good polish. Many have good luck with the Gibson guitar polish or here is what I use:

http://www.corycare.com/piano-care-products/super-high-gloss-polish.html

To support Piano World, it is available at:

http://www.pianosupplies.com/pianos/SHG-8.html

Chances are that the dealership where you bought the piano has it in stock. It is a standard polish used by many piano owners.

Don't get extreme!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2081337 - 05/12/13 11:25 AM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1974
Loc: Philadelphia area
I agree with Marty. Try the Cory polish first.

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#2081365 - 05/12/13 12:14 PM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
shaolin95 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 476
Wow thank you all for all the amazing comments and procedures explained.

I am for sure not trying this on my own if it requires so much. I would like them gone but not if I end up making things worst.
Since it takes me from some exact angle to see them, I which is not anywhere from where I play or normally stand. I think I better ignore then.
I do have the Cory product and while it helps make it glossier and keep dust away, it does not do anything with those hair line scratches.
But not big deal...after learning from your comments, I rather live with them. laugh
_________________________
*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)

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#2081432 - 05/12/13 03:33 PM Re: Should I be able to remove these marks with Meguiars swirl ? [Re: shaolin95]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2674
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
Wow ...after learning from your comments, I rather live with them. laugh


Sounds like a good plan!
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A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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