Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2069906 - 04/24/13 11:00 AM Piano Sonata in 1 Month
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Hello I have a serious project going on right now. Feel free to follow me on my newly created blog for it. That will help keep me somewhat accountable. You can learn all about it below, thank you!

http://thepianojourney.wordpress.com/


Edited by Teodor (04/24/13 11:00 AM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2070099 - 04/24/13 05:10 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1417
Loc: Australia
Teodor, I enjoyed reading the blog and listening to your first recording.

I can't even imagine how much pressure you are under to achieve this sonata, but can understand your desire to see what you are capable off. Good luck and please update the thread with your progress.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

Top
#2070115 - 04/24/13 05:34 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Last time I played a Haydn sonata, actually just one movement, it took me over a month. I've been playing about as long as you, maybe 3 years, so you are doing well. I'm not in school, so I guess I have the option to take the long route. Anyway good luck. I'll drop in on your blog from time to time to check your progress. Got my own worries with RCM Exam closing in just over a month away, I'm feeling the pressure more each day.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

Top
#2070261 - 04/24/13 10:25 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
ShannanwL Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 11
Great job for a first run through.
_________________________
Currently in Albert's Adult Basic Piano Level 2
Working on:
Light and Blue
Hungarian Rapashody
Bagatelle
Minuet by James Hook
Little Prelude
First Lessons in Bach- Minuet in G Major
Czerny Opus 599 Exercise 2

Top
#2070403 - 04/25/13 02:34 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
Last time I played a Haydn sonata, actually just one movement, it took me over a month. I've been playing about as long as you, maybe 3 years, so you are doing well. I'm not in school, so I guess I have the option to take the long route. Anyway good luck. I'll drop in on your blog from time to time to check your progress. Got my own worries with RCM Exam closing in just over a month away, I'm feeling the pressure more each day.


Thanks for all the support. I knew I'd have to learn this sonata and I knew 6 months in advance. However, I always had something else to work on and I am not organized so I kind of put it off till all else was going good. I can panic and do nothing or I can give it a shot and see how it goes. Nothing else to do in this situation.
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2070521 - 04/25/13 09:31 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11586
Loc: Canada
Nice start.

I'm wondering, when you first looked through the movement, did you do any kind of analysis for understanding it as music? I'm thinking of things such as how the whole thing fits together - for example if this movement is in sonata form, finding the three sections that make up a sonata and then the smaller bits that make up a section. For example, in what you have played there are two phrases that talk to each other in a call-answer way, and then other things are happening. I find that seeing these things in advance helps me immensely, even if the first work isn't on a musical level. If not helpful, please ignore or tell me to go away. smile

Top
#2070522 - 04/25/13 09:34 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11448
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Teodor
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
Last time I played a Haydn sonata, actually just one movement, it took me over a month. I've been playing about as long as you, maybe 3 years, so you are doing well. I'm not in school, so I guess I have the option to take the long route. Anyway good luck. I'll drop in on your blog from time to time to check your progress. Got my own worries with RCM Exam closing in just over a month away, I'm feeling the pressure more each day.


Thanks for all the support. I knew I'd have to learn this sonata and I knew 6 months in advance. However, I always had something else to work on and I am not organized so I kind of put it off till all else was going good. I can panic and do nothing or I can give it a shot and see how it goes. Nothing else to do in this situation.


You'll be fine, and you are off to a great start. Don't forget to also work on the other movements smile. Just be methodical in your approach, don't waste time running through except to see where things are at every once in a while at the tempo you'd like to reach. Once you do that, then make notes as to what still needs work or new areas that need work, then get back to the grindstone!

Also, as far as memorization goes I wouldn't try to memorize yet. Let it happen as naturally as possible and work on the musical/technical things first. Set a timeline for yourself as to when you need to begin memorizing. I recommend 2 weeks before you have to perform it at the latest, that gives you 1 week to memorize, and 1 week to finalize everything and just work on performing it.


Edited by Morodiene (04/25/13 09:36 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#2071495 - 04/26/13 12:29 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
I am having trouble staying consistent with this. One day I am working hard at it and I am super concentrated. The next day I can't make any progress at all and I just keep gliding through the material and wasting time.

No idea how to stay focused each time I practice. It will take more effort than I thought.

The first page is now more fluid than before but the second page is a mess and I haven't progressed further. My general understanding of the piece has increased and I know how everything in the 3 movements should sound like but my hands can't quite keep up.


Edited by Teodor (04/26/13 12:31 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2071498 - 04/26/13 12:31 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2375
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Teodor
I am having trouble staying consistent with this. One day I am working hard at it and I am super concentrated. The next day I can't make any progress at all and I just keep gliding through the material and wasting time.

No idea how to stay focused each time I practice. It will take more effort than I thought.


Sometimes something simple like a big sign that says "Focus" (or the equivalent in Bulgarian) pinned above the piano can help.

How about a plan for each day that you do before you start? That might help too.

At the end of the day, I could never focus at University until my final year so I probably can't give too much advice wink
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebestrume No. 3, S541
  • Scarlatti - Sonata in D minor, K. 213

Kawai K3

Top
#2071503 - 04/26/13 12:37 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11448
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Teodor
I am having trouble staying consistent with this. One day I am working hard at it and I am super concentrated. The next day I can't make any progress at all and I just keep gliding through the material and wasting time.

No idea how to stay focused each time I practice. It will take more effort than I thought.

The first page is now more fluid than before but the second page is a mess and I haven't progressed further. My general understanding of the piece has increased and I know how everything in the 3 movements should sound like but my hands can't quite keep up.


I would concentrate on just page 2. Very slow practice, practice in rhythms, blocking if that applies, make sure you really understand what should be happening at every moment here. If you don't and you kind of skim through, take this time now to figure it out outside the context of the whole piece. Write in the sheet music whatever notes will help you in the midst of playing (finger numbers, note names, sometimes just circling a note that is troublesome is enough to draw your attention when you are playing).
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

Top
#2071511 - 04/26/13 12:48 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Those are some good ideas. I'll make coffee and start day 3. The focus note is useful, I used to have a "relax" note which helped me avoid getting tension each time I looked at it.
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2071544 - 04/26/13 01:31 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
AimeeO Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 04 2013


Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 803
Loc: New Orleans
Originally Posted By: Teodor
I am having trouble staying consistent with this. One day I am working hard at it and I am super concentrated. The next day I can't make any progress at all and I just keep gliding through the material and wasting time.

No idea how to stay focused each time I practice.


If you figure that out, bottle it up and sell it! I need to know too!

Top
#2071551 - 04/26/13 01:45 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
I know the cause but not the solution. We live in a time with lots of distractions. Internet, social media, television, friends, school, work, pressure. It's difficult to separate yourself from your daily life when you sit at the piano but that's just what needs to happen. Also we tend to like playing already "mastered" sections or pieces too much instead of concentrating on the difficulties in our current studies.

If we want to have good practice we need to have strong will and be present when playing. Everything your hands do when learning a new piece should be completely directed by you and not random and by chance. It should be deliberate.

My teacher keeps telling me that in order to truly experience a piece and perform it well, you need to first make sure you have the basis for it. You need to have something to step on and that's perfect knowledge of all the notes you are supposed to play and the correct rhythm. You cannot expect to be able to play with good expression and dynamics and articulation if you don't get the notes. She tells me to get the piece going steady even if it sounds mechanical at first. If I can do that I can then proceed to working out all the little things that will make it meaningful. I know some people say you need to always play very musically but for someone who doesn't yet have good technique, it's not so possible. You cannot concentrate on 5 things at once. Concentrate on 1, playing it fluently. If you think about expression, articulation, dynamics all at the same time before you know the piece and before your hands perform it with no trouble, it's a waste of time.

Once you are at the stage when the notes are no longer an issue then you can play as musically as you want but before that you need to lay the foundation for that. Effective practice is not necessarily one where you sound pleasing to anyone who might listen. Especially until you finish mastering the notes and rhythm.


Edited by Teodor (04/26/13 01:52 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2071580 - 04/26/13 02:18 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Teodor
We live in a time with lots of distractions. Internet, social media, television, friends, school, work, pressure. It's difficult to separate yourself from your daily life when you sit at the piano but that's just what needs to happen.


Months ago, Valentina Lisitsa had a live stream of her preparing for her concert the week before going on stage. So she's sitting in this small room playing the whole day, like 12 hours that week, repeating without stopping some passages, over and over, then her iPhone, which is on the music desk, chimes, and she stops, look at the text, then responses to it, taking many minutes.

I cannot imagine someone like Rubinstein while practicing at the piano would be interrupted every few minutes by a text message or email. I suppose Lisitsa could practice without the iPhone right there on her music desk, but she does. Is that what our society has come to?

The millenial generation really need to learn to unplug everyday for a certain amount of time.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

Top
#2071630 - 04/26/13 03:20 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
I saw that when she was streaming her practice. It's good to take short breaks like that but it's also very beneficial to forget about the existence of the pc and phone for a few hours each day.

I remember reading somewhere that when you are practicing and you take a break it's good to rest for a while but don't do something too different that will redirect your attention away from the music you are practicing. It's not easy to come back into the proper mindset once you get out of it.


Edited by Teodor (04/26/13 03:21 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2076408 - 05/03/13 03:23 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: Teodor
I am having trouble staying consistent with this. One day I am working hard at it and I am super concentrated. The next day I can't make any progress at all and I just keep gliding through the material and wasting time.


On days like this (and maybe just in general with such a project), decrease the scope and increase the depth of your focus. Instead of "gliding through the material," pick out a small handful of measures. Practice and make them comfortable one at a time until this small section of measures is as absolutely flawless as you're capable without completely leaving them alone to digest for a period of time. At the end of each day with such a project as this, you will walk away with a whole brick in hand - maybe even a small pile of them. While you won't yet be able to build a house with what you have, it certainly puts you closer to that goal than a pile of pieces of bricks.

Here's a quote about time constraints - that's certainly very true of my practicing - that can greatly help us whether we have a modest 30 minutes a day to practice or 3 or 4 hours. Don't even go near a piano if you don't have a very clear and achievable goal and want to improve.
Originally Posted By: JazzAdvice.com | Practice Less and Improvise Better
No distractions. Period.

If you have only 30-45 minutes a day to spend practicing, the way you spend that time is extremely important. Treat it like gold. Turn your phone off. Log out of email, Facebook, and any other time-sucks. You don’t need a snack or anything else. Focus.

In some respect, having so little time is an advantage. People who have plenty of time in a day often have trouble finishing what they need to because they say to themselves, “I’ll just do it later,” and it never gets done. With a specific amount of allotted time for a given task, you’re forced to do it. Knowing the start and end times helps motivate you through the entire process, all the way to completion.



P.S. I commend you for your goal. I'm thinking about undertaking a similar project this summer. A music teacher of mine said that in his time at college, his piano teacher would require him to follow this schedule:

Week 1: Receive new assignment.
Week 2: You must have all the notes of the piece under your fingers.
Week 3: The piece must be playable at tempo.
Week 4: The piece must be memorized and performance-ready.

With this kind of schedule, whether you like practicing or not (which he didn't), you sure had better develop a functional routine if you don't want to fail.

Top
#2076737 - 05/03/13 03:56 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Thanks for the feedback, Bob. I don't know what the end result will be in terms of playing a sonata but so far working on it has taught me many many things that will be useful in the long run. My hands as it turns out are capable of complex coordination if I put my mind to it and practice hard. If I was given this sonata last year I'd be at a loss but now it's within reach.

I am attending a summer music camp in the mountains in August, so after the exam, no matter the outcome I will keep at it and make it better for the master classes in August. It will be 2 weeks of daily lessons and it each week ends with a recital. The second week has 2 recitals, one in the town where the summer music course is held and one in a bigger town where we will conclude the course.

Last year I attended and it was divine. The beautiful nature, the calm pace of life in the village... Can't describe it good enough, you have to experience it to know. Walks at night with the sky filled with stars so close and so bright...... Perfect.

It may not sound like much because for most pianists this is something they sight-read prima vista but last two days I managed to get the piano of the first Bartok Romanian Folk dance going at half the tempo with no mistakes at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTBC734Lljk

Now 2 more of these dances and I'm ready for the chamber music exam. The mozart violin and piano sonata will need most work, it's still difficult for me but I'm getting there. I will have to make some time for it as well soon.
smile


Edited by Teodor (05/03/13 03:58 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2081992 - 05/13/13 04:32 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Hi Teodor, are you there? I was just wondering how this is going?

Top
#2082263 - 05/14/13 03:45 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Hello I'm making progress but it doesn't look as if I will be ready by the deadline. The first two movements are going ok, second one in tempo, first one much slower. The third movement however is not even close to going smoothly.


Edited by Teodor (05/14/13 03:46 AM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2083492 - 05/16/13 03:38 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Good morning, Bulgaria. True, Haydn sonatas are deceptive material, they appear easy but then ...

Proof that Haydn was a great artist !

I'm a bit surprised, though, on bumping the thread back up I expected to read that after your worries early on you would have the thing well in hand. Sorry!

Is there a consequence to not having the piece ready "on time" ?

Top
#2095972 - 06/05/13 03:44 AM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Not really, I am taking another 2-3 weeks, there is a makeup exam for those who wish to improve their grade or just weren't prepared the first time.

I only need to somehow get the 3rd movement together, 1st and 2nd are easy now but the 3rd is terrible.

If I fail to sit this exam however, I have to wait till September and pay money to do it yet another time.


Edited by Teodor (06/05/13 03:45 AM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2107855 - 06/25/13 02:17 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
I am happy to inform that I just passed my exam. This turned into a sonata in 2 months but I couldn't learn the last two pages of the 3rd movement in time.

At home with no distractions I play mostly good but at the exam it was difficult to concentrate. The examination board consisted of only two professors this time and I have worked with both so that wasn't the issue. But the lack of time to prepare resulted in lack of confidence. (2 months is still not enough for a beginner pianist to master anything of the scale of a sonata)

I have a B. Which makes me happy because there is room for improvement for next year and I know I did not practice hard at all during those two months, so I am not surprised that I did badly. There were days when I did not play or barely played at all.



Something that made it way worse was that the phone of one of the examiners rang and she answered it right when I was playing. I think that's unacceptable but what do I know I am just a student. Also they asked me to stop in the middle of the second movement right at the best part because they wanted to hear the 3rd movement. That was just stupid. I guess I'll have to play it in a recital next year if I want someone to hear it completely.

All the other pianists were playing advanced repertoire and none of them seemed to be having trouble but it always seems that all is ok when listening to a piece you are not completely familiar with, especially complex ones.

On to the next great adventure with more piano and chamber music next semester. smile


Edited by Teodor (06/25/13 02:19 PM)
_________________________
Music Pedagogy Student

Recitals:

Top
#2107882 - 06/25/13 02:49 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
Good for you, Teodor! And I think your "room to grow" attitude about your B grade is exactly the point of view which builds healthy motivation. So congratulations on all counts!
_________________________
Oops... extremely distracted by mandolins at the moment... brb

neglected piano blog

Top
#2107890 - 06/25/13 03:18 PM Re: Piano Sonata in 1 Month [Re: Teodor]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3464
Congrats!

Doing phone calls in the middle of your exam, that's weird indeed. Maybe she thought that the part you were playing at that moment was not critical to evaluate you and that you should be able to cope with distractins.

Regarding skipping, I think that's not uncommon. They need to assess you and they probably want to hear certain parts they know that are hard. I guess the third part is harder than that middle of 2nd movement?
_________________________

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
87 registered (Ben_NZ, barmassimo, Atrys, accordeur, 23 invisible), 1200 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75602 Members
42 Forums
156326 Topics
2295889 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
piano technician cost list
by ascc
Today at 01:36 AM
Liszt on Steinway A3
by Reno
Today at 01:35 AM
Roland RD800 initial impressions
by fizikisto
Today at 12:28 AM
Connected Slurs
by TX-Bluebonnet
Today at 12:17 AM
Recital 35 --- Call For Submissions
by AB Forum Recital
Yesterday at 10:17 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission