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#2079910 - 05/09/13 04:10 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Play at least 1 chorus. Otherwise no rules.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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Piano & Music Accessories
#2079967 - 05/09/13 06:10 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
It's too bad I missed that course, I think I would have enjoyed it.

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#2080120 - 05/10/13 02:12 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
Elkayem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 160
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Yikes, I can't believe I'm posting my really lame attempt here!

https://soundcloud.com/elkayem/intro-to-improv-assignment-1

The 160 bpm tempo is simply too fast for me at this stage of my development. 120 bpm would have been more ideal, and my lines sound much more interesting at that tempo. What am I going to do when faced with a really uptempo tune?!

I know everyone learns at their own pace, but I seriously would like to know how many years it is going to take until it starts to happen. You wouldn't know it but I've been at it for over 2 years and still sound like a beginner. My secret weapon is that I am stubborn and refuse to give up until I die.
_________________________
Schimmel 130T

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#2080176 - 05/10/13 06:26 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
you're being way too hard on yourself.
your time was good . your lines ended well and you used good rest.

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#2080201 - 05/10/13 07:56 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Hey elkayem
That was a nice Lesson 1 solo.
Personally, I'm happy to be a beginner forever, insofar as if you have high expectations of yourself, it causes unnecessary stress, and decreases your performance level.

Hey Knotty
I'm impressed with how professionally the course is run. It is worth signing up for just to receive Gary's solos and backing tracks.
I expect it will run again later in the year.

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#2080724 - 05/11/13 10:15 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
Elkayem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 160
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Thanks knotty and custard apple. You are right, I am being hard on myself. It is amazing how much time and effort is required to make noticeable progress, but I am improving little by little. Problem is my standards are set way too high. I expect I should be playing at Oscar Peterson's level in about 200 years, meanwhile I should enjoy the journey more. Thanks for the encouragement!
_________________________
Schimmel 130T

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#2081045 - 05/11/13 08:53 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Thanks to Chris who noted that I could still join, I did join the course!
Here's assignment 1 for which I'll get no credit (not that I need any).
http://snd.sc/1396BXr

Anyway, I find it odd the way Burton approaches improv. 10 scales to learn but it isn't quite clear when to use which.
For example, when are Phrygian and Aeolian used?

And more importantly, some of the most common scales are missing (at least to me):
- Melodic minor - 1st mode. What are you supposed to play on the 1 of a minor 2-5-1. Maybe we'll find out next week?
- Pentatonic - half the real book is made up of pentatonic melodies)
- Blues. Nothing like a good blues scale to bring it home.
- Harmonic Minor - maybe you don't like that one, but it's my 5 year old's favorite. First scale C minor, 2nd is A melodic Minor and 3rd he ever learned was A harmonic minor. It's gotta be worth something.

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#2081067 - 05/11/13 09:52 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: knotty]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
Masterful! I'm hoping he is going to explain the rational behind all of those missing core scales. I think it is because they are not chord scales and Berklee is at war against non-chord scales. Melodic, harmonic and blues go across a harmony. I will bet that they burn melodic and harmonic at the stake, and reluctantly offer blues as an alternative when necessary.
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2081072 - 05/11/13 10:15 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Thanks ken.
see I thought the basic scale on the 1 of a minor 251 was melodic minor.
just like major scale for major 251.
modes of melodic minor are used as altered (7) and lydian dominant (4). but not the 1st mode. that is odd.

I know some here dont like harmonic minor in jazz (I wont say any names).
but I do, so take that Sweden ;-)

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#2081100 - 05/11/13 11:28 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: knotty
Thanks to Chris who noted that I could still join, I did join the course!
Here's assignment 1 for which I'll get no credit (not that I need any).
http://snd.sc/1396BXr

Anyway, I find it odd the way Burton approaches improv. 10 scales to learn but it isn't quite clear when to use which.
For example, when are Phrygian and Aeolian used?



Hey Knots
Thanks for posting your fun solo.
In terms of modes, I only got up to learning Aeolian as I'm working on other things at the moment.
So I never ended up learning Phrygian.

Aeolian is typically used in a very specific setting in jazz, I still actually haven't found a chord in a jazz standard which calls for this particular type of dark sound.
But also there is a type of jazz standard (that I haven't yet played) with such a long minor harmonic progression such that you can switch modes/scales to maintain listener interest - switching from dorian to blues to aeolian would sound very cool.

I think in this coming week, Gary will talk about when to use chord-scale x or y.

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#2081156 - 05/12/13 02:23 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1614
Hi Custard, Aeolian is used often on vi-7 especially in the very common
Cmaj7 A-7 D-7 G7 progression , like in "I Can't Get Started" or "Blue Moon".

and Phrygian on iii-7

iii-7 vi-7 ii-7 V7

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#2081199 - 05/12/13 05:15 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
Thanks to Chris who noted that I could still join, I did join the course! Here's assignment 1 for which I'll get no credit (not that I need any). http://snd.sc/1396BXr
Nice Knotty, very nice.

Originally Posted By: knotty
Anyway, I find it odd the way Burton approaches improv. 10 scales to learn but it isn't quite clear when to use which. For example, when are Phrygian and Aeolian used?
Lesson two is about scales, not chords, that's next week. smile The approach, as I understand it, is getting to know the sound/texture and shape of the different scales; from light to dark (like Gaffa tape; it has a light and a dark side - keep the Universe together . . . ).

However, there is a method to this "madness", it's Gary Burton's method for ... sake. So there must be a reason why he's teaching the stuff in this manner. laugh
Look at the scale choices we have been given for the 2nd assignment, nothing arbitrary there.


Edited by chrisbell (05/12/13 05:57 AM)
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2081200 - 05/12/13 05:17 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
I know some here dont like harmonic minor in jazz (I wont say any names).
but I do, so take that Sweden ;-)
Yep. And I'm man enough to admit it. smile
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2081222 - 05/12/13 07:18 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: rintincop]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: rintincop
Hi Custard, Aeolian is used often on vi-7 especially in the very common
Cmaj7 A-7 D-7 G7 progression , like in "I Can't Get Started" or "Blue Moon".

and Phrygian on iii-7

iii-7 vi-7 ii-7 V7


Thanks rintincop, I didn't know that.
I found "I Can't Get Started" in Real Book 6th, and will play around with it tomorrow.
Are you suggesting that the b6 in the leads to the A ?

Are there any excerpts of solos which use Phrygian ?

Cheers
cus

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#2081245 - 05/12/13 08:11 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
thank you Chris and rintincop and cus. That makes perfect sense.

Chris, I am looking forward to that Barrista in 2 months. I hear Sweden is the largest consumer of coffee.

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#2081268 - 05/12/13 09:16 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
Chris, I am looking forward to that Barrista in 2 months. I hear Sweden is the largest consumer of coffee.
Ah yes, Quills. Great coffee!
Sorry, only 6th, the Finns are the heaviest consumers.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2081768 - 05/13/13 08:39 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
So assignment 2; 6 Scales: http://snd.sc/10ltJEk
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2081788 - 05/13/13 09:43 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: chrisbell]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
I kind of like yours a whole lot more than I like mine. The six vignettes put together is really nice. I tried to put them all together with one theme and common notes transitioning. Ugh.

I also start and end with a bar or two of C (not in the lesson), but shoot me.

Ken's Week 2 assignment
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2081800 - 05/13/13 09:54 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks. I played them one after another . . I found it very stimulating and challenging.

Pow! Nice idea that, putting a chord/scale/mode as a start and end. I'm so a... that I "have to" follow the given order . . . it's great hearing other version; very interesting. . . . nicely played.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2081818 - 05/13/13 10:21 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
Thanks! I'm not sure if I'll redo it, but its really giving me a hankerin' to look at working up a modal jazz tune now.
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2082028 - 05/13/13 06:02 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: kenjazz]
Lost Woods Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 104
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
So assignment 2; 6 Scales: http://snd.sc/10ltJEk


wow I wish I could "see" the notes being played. Ofcourse I could transcribe and know the scales which are used.. but that will take too much time for just an exercise.. but some really neat ideas!!!

Originally Posted By: kenjazz


Love it smile

Love what u guys do with the left hand.. I will try the exercise tomorrow but I think it's likely I'll only just play the chords smirk


Edited by Lost Woods (05/13/13 06:05 PM)

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#2082064 - 05/13/13 07:24 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Lost Woods]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
I'm definitely going to redo this. I thought that I could make the scales sound like they had the right character even though I was was playing them over LH that was different (like D Dorian over C6add11 preceded by a G to C bass note). I was wrong, wrong wrong. At the end of the day, it sounds like just playing in C no matter what you emphasize in the RH. I made that mistake on some of the others too. So a redo is in order. It is a nice little exercise, though. Now I know for sure what the sound difference would be.
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2082307 - 05/14/13 07:58 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Hey Chris
You've captured the six different modes really really well. Thanks for posting.

Hey Ken
Looking forward to your new version. Yup, you have it, moving out of the parent scale is the key.

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#2082350 - 05/14/13 09:51 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
Elkayem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 160
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Chris and Ken, thanks for sharing! Great playing! Ken, nice idea using Flamenco Sketches. That's the same motif Bill Evans also uses on Peace Piece, and is a great vehicle for modal improvisation. I enjoyed hearing how you used it for the assignment.
_________________________
Schimmel 130T

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#2082356 - 05/14/13 10:20 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
Elkayem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 160
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Just checked out the new assignment. 500 Miles High?! Whoa, this is going to scare a lot of folks off (those who haven't left already). All I can figure is that Gary wanted to find a tune where a more traditional functional analysis doesn't work, so his more deductive approach to chord scales would be needed. I'm can't tell where the key centers are on this tune, though I do spot a minor 2-5-1 in there.
_________________________
Schimmel 130T

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#2082475 - 05/14/13 02:01 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: custard apple]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hey Chris. You've captured the six different modes really really well. Thanks for posting.
Thanks Custard . . and thanks LW. Appreciate that you had a listen.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2082494 - 05/14/13 02:50 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
Lost Woods Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 104
Loc: The Netherlands
Anyone got any tips for (easy) LH patters for the week 2 assignment?
I hear u guys do all kind of stuff but don't know what (maybe it is advanced so I can't even know smile )..

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#2082559 - 05/14/13 05:02 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
Hopefully I fixed them to keep the character of the scales.

Ken's Fixed Up Scale Lesson
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2082565 - 05/14/13 05:05 PM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Elkayem]
kenjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 228
Loc: Massachussetts, USA
Thanks for picking up on the Flemenco Sketches. I wasn't sure if it was identifiable enough to pick up.
_________________________
The Melody Never Lies

Schimmel 120J

Learning To Play Jazz Piano After Age 50+

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#2082974 - 05/15/13 08:35 AM Re: Berklee improvisation course on Coursera [Re: Veelo]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
I have to say the method for finding scales is very very interesting. I'll try and post a version 500 Miles in a few days.

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