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This has probably been discussed on here before, but my apologies since I can't seem to find anything.

How do you teach students how to properly use the sustain pedal?

This seems to me to be one of the most difficult things to explain and and for them to learn.

I think the difficulty is that it is the opposite of what seems natural. They want to make the foot and the finger do the "up-down" motion at the same time, but of course that leaves a gap in the sound which is exactly what we are trying to avoid.

When a student has trouble with this, one idea I have tried is to teach it in dramatic slow-motion ("ok, RH plays a C, push pedal down, now change smoothly change RH to a D, NOW quickly pedal up-down... Now let's practice pedaling even closer to when the RH changes notes..") This usually results in the student having a very jerky/awkward pedal "up-down" technique. They know they're supposed to do it "fast," but they can't quite grasp when.

Other ideas?

Hand press C--hold on finger--foot go up down--hold on foot
--hand press D--hold on finger--foot go up down--hold on foot
--hand press E--hold on finger--foot go up down--hold on foot.....

This may seem an odd suggestion, but over on the ABF a number of ideas and resources on ideas have been flowing in on just that subject. http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2081000/Pedaling.html#Post2081000

This works? Seriously?

For teaching legato pedaling, I do have the student work slowly at first, as I think you are describing. I think it is important that the music (or exercise) they are first using their pedaling on is very easy for them. The music must be easy enough or well learned enough so they have the brain power to focus on the pedaling.

I show them how it should be done more than verbally describing it.

However when I do describe it,I describe it as lifting the pedal as the keys fall for the next notes. Most students also need coaching in making their pedal movements efficient - using no more than required motion and keeping the heel planted.

It sounds confusing to me too. Is this is an exercise EZ's students use?

Yes it works.
If you are not teaching in this way doesn't means other teachers cannot teach in this way and it also doesn't mean it won't work for other teachers.
If you doubt about if it works or not, the best thing you can do is to try out with one of your student then come back to tell me that it won't work on your students.
If after you try out with your student and it doesn't work, it just means that it won't work for you or for your student, it doesn't mean it won't work on MY teaching and MY students.
So, in conclusion, your comment is dispensable in this thread.

I think you're way reading into this the wrong way. This is simply a slowed-down description of how anyone is supposed to properly pedal...

That.

I always use the exercise in book 2B of piano adventures. I had no idea how to teach it before I found that! It helps that the first piece after the exercise is "Beach Party" which kids love to play.

The great romantic pianist, Anton Rubinstein, said that the pedal is the soul of the piano. That was an understatement if there ever was one!

Let's see: there's syncopated (legato) pedaling (with many timing variations), metric (on the beat) pedaling. Then there's full, half, quarter pedaling. Oh, and butterfly pedaling. And that's just with the damper pedal. Then we need to teach use of the sostenuto pedal and the una corda pedal.

You'd probably need a short book to cover all the teaching aspects of pedaling. FWIW, it's an on going project for most students. As they advance with their playing technique, we constantly work on improving the pedal technique.

So here's my take on teaching very elementary damper pedal technique.

First, I teach proper foot placement. Heel on the floor, never elevated; ball of foot over the end (wide) part of the pedal. Use a gentle down and up motion, pivoting at the ankle. Under no circumstances should you allow the student to raise the heel off the floor.

I generally start them off with syncopated pedaling. Play the note, then press the pedal. Release the note, then release the pedal. This permits a legato sound and is generally enough for the first few years or so. But as soon as the student can handle it, I teach them to sense where the pedal picks up the dampers and the point where further depression of the pedal becomes wasted motion. There is no sense to "over pedal" and if you're repeating pedal motion, you should learn how far up to raise the pedal and then go no further. I don't know if this makes sense or not, but the range of the damper pedal is about double the actual distance required just to begin lifting the dampers to the point that the dampers are fully lifted off of the strings.

The technique can then be transferred to other pedal timings, which follow as the student advances.

And every piano's damper pedal has different depths. One needs to listen attentively in order to adjust to the instrument's pedal and to the acoustics of the room. Earlier this year I was evaluating CM in a small room with a Steinway that has the shallowest pedals I've ever seen. Every single kid struggled with it; notes got cut off, and I heard some of the driest chord progressions.

On the subject of the soft pedal (una corda), I have a few students who are doing gradations of soft pedal. It's one of those fascinating ideas, extremely helpful for playing Debussy.

AZN, maybe I'm misunderstanding your anecdote, but if you say a piano has a *shallow* damper pedal, I would think this means that one's foot only has to depress it slightly for it to function. In other words, the dampers would lift off the strings almost as soon as the foot contacts the pedal.

Why would that make for struggle, or chopped-off notes, or dry chords for kids? I'm confused.

Because most pianos' pedal have a certain depth to allow for gradations of pedaling. When kids are confronted with a shallow pedal, they don't know what to do. There was hardly any gradation; half- or quarter-pedal was nearly impossible. It was all or nothing.

That's why I tell all of my students to test the pedal before playing.

Usually - not always - the pedal is out of adjustment. There should always a bit of "play" at the "top", and it needs to be there. You would not want the pedal to begin lifting the dampers when it is depressed a tiny fraction of an inch.

But the big problem usually happens when the pedal has to be depressed too FAR before it begins to "engage". And if the adjustment is that wacky, there will be other problems. Probably the dampers will not lift uniformly or "cleanly" so you will have to be especially careful about lifting the pedal far enough to get a clean "clear".

With the low pedal setting the attempt to go high enough to get a clear change will be too much - because the pedal is set so low. Then you have to remember to re-depress the pedal way down or the sustained notes will bleed away as IF they are half pedaled.

And that totally wipes out the feel for real half pedaling.

It also makes it very hard to do the light "flutter" or "butterfly" pedal, because there is no feel.

And, Gary, as your point well illustrates, regular piano maintenance by students and TEACHERS is critical to good education.

This is one of the things I talked about with Dr. Kolar in Part 2 of our interview.

You can check it out here: http://www.irvinepianostudio.com/2/...hopins-pieces-with-dr-j-mitzi-kolar.html

She shares a couple ways to teach syncopated pedaling around the 19:00 mark. Like what ezpiano mentioned, your mileage may vary depending on the student. That's what makes teaching piano so fun! Coming up with different ways to teach different students. HAHA.

I have also found that talking about the PURPOSE of syncopated pedaling--to connect one note to the next using the FOOT(pedal)--and focusing on listening helps a lot. When the student understands the purpose, it fixes the "opposite of what seems natural" thing you talk about.

Also, musicpassion is right about the exercise being super easy when learning to pedal. Pedagogically, whenever you introduce a new concept/skill, you want to make sure the student isn't bogged down with any other technical difficulties. Makes sense right?

One exercise I have found that works well with my students is to have them play a scale slowly, saying the word "up" as they play each note. Then have them say "up" as they play each note and "down" after they play the note. Finally, add the pedal and have the foot match the words the student is saying. This seems to help those students who can't quite coordinate the foot and hand movements.

Oh, and don't forget to remind them about keeping the heel down! I like to demonstrate for my students how silly it looks to lift your whole foot off the floor when you pedal. We get a good laugh from that!

Your comments reminded me of something my students probably laugh at - I tell them to "tie a string from their fingers to their foot, so when they raise their fingers from the keys, they are pulling up their foot at the same time." That mental picture helps quite a few students.