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#2083756 - 05/16/13 05:02 PM for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . .
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
. . . the phrases starting with the second beat of measure seven, and other moments, might be interesting.

http://michaelsayers.com/compositionpdfs/PRAYER_THANKFULNESS_TIME_WITH_GOD.pdf

This is a high-res pdf for printing so it will need to be downloaded to be viewed without distortion.


Mvh,
Michael

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#2083918 - 05/17/13 12:39 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6411
Loc: New York City
I'm not going to try to decipher your handwriting - get composition software and put it into there, then save it as a PDF and post it again.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2083938 - 05/17/13 01:39 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
I've tried music software in the past and found it to be very time consuming - time that is needed for more composing. Probably a learning curve is involved but I just don't have the time available for it.

I fully understand your position though. Handwritten music manuscripts are normally of interest to archivists, researchers, persons performing the music, et c.

With music, engraving really is the job of a publishing company and an expert music editor, not the composer, right?

Mvh,
Michael

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#2083943 - 05/17/13 02:00 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6411
Loc: New York City
First of all - software is not "time consuming", it gets the job done many times faster than handwriting the score. And, it looks professional.

Engraving is the job of the composer, if he wants people to read his music...
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2083944 - 05/17/13 02:07 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Polyphonist]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Engraving is the job of the composer, if he wants people to read his music...
While I see your point, and personally find it extremely valuable that I was able to notate things with Finale from an early time, I do disagree:

The job of the composer is indeed to compose (and orchestrate if his works requires that, though film composers don't even do that much), not to create scores and parts.

Indeed a well presented score will shift the odds to the favour of the composer, but a busy composer may indeed not have the time to care. Then again if the composer is busy then he's probably being paid for his works, in which case the music editor and publishers will take care of the issue. Otherwise the composer is not exactly busy composing... wink
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2083945 - 05/17/13 02:09 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Polyphonist Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6411
Loc: New York City
My point is that, disregarding other factors, it's just a lot faster to use a program than to try and write the whole score by hand, especially when it's an orchestral score.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2083976 - 05/17/13 03:13 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Even if I were to use Finale, I know that many persons such as Nikolas and yourself would be able to readily make improvements in the presentation . . . so my use of Finale might even make the music look amateurish, even the inexpert eye I am sure can see when things need improvement though without knowing exactly what the issues are.

Here is a short little funereal composition from this month which is far more minimalistic and should be endurable to read:

http://michaelsayers.com/compositionpdfs/COMPOSITION_130512.pdf

(also needs downloading to view without distortion; these are all high-res scans for printing and maximum readability of the hand writing)


Mvh,
Michael


Edited by Michael Sayers (05/17/13 03:25 AM)

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#2084072 - 05/17/13 09:12 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Steve Chandler Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2629
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
I compose on paper then transfer to Finale. I would love to spend more time composing and less on notation (engraving), but there's simply no hope for being taken seriously with a hand written score. Those are the facts and the contemporary composer eventually learns to deal with it.

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#2084123 - 05/17/13 11:29 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Steve,

The pros and cons go both ways . . . anyone who is unwilling to read handwritten scores and notations will not be able to thoroughly study the music of the great masters, some of which, as with Debussy, still is unpublished and only in handwritten form.

I think if one's music has durable value everything will work itself out eventually one way or another - even if this has to be done posthumously!

For me to do my best in that capacity restricts the activity to endless handwritten sketches, advancing drafts, and time not being spent on music often goes to the regathering of focus when it has slipped.

Just my honest thoughts here . . .

Mvh,
Michael



Edited by Michael Sayers (05/17/13 11:37 AM)

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#2084133 - 05/17/13 11:43 AM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
I'll be dead honest here...

I don't mind a well written hand score... But yours are not such, Michael, sorry... They are just sketches of a score...

In any case, my initial impression when looking at the score is dual:
"How much does a composer know"
"How much does a composer cares for his/her music"

For the first it can be seen in any instance of a score, and it's somewhat easy to tell. for the second though, regardless of how ugly it may seem, an ugly handwritten score is an indication that the composer hasn't gone in trouble to showcase his/her music in the best way possible, even more so to performers (who do appreciate a well written score)...

Sorry... smile
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2084190 - 05/17/13 02:03 PM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Nikolas]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Nikolas,

I agree in the practical significance of outward impressions - and my handwritten scores can be a challenge to read, so I fully respect this view.

Thanks for your frank response, and bottom-line you are right that it would be in my favour to use Finale - if there were time to develop any additional specialized skills without slacking off at either piano practice or composing I would do it.

Time is pressing and anything that adds to the pressure needs to be minimized or avoided . . .

p.s. - you only publish fully modernistic (harmonically, timbrally, et c.) compositions, right?


Mvh,
Michael

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#2084271 - 05/17/13 03:49 PM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
p.s. - you only publish fully modernistic (harmonically, timbrally, et c.) compositions, right?
Michael,

Not "fully". If there's something that's "original" and "interesting" I don't have a problem publishing it. Yes, most works are rather "modern" but as with my music, several other works are quite timid in their use of dissonance... smile

BTW, it's not just "me", but "us", so while I'm the spokesperson behind the company, I'm not pulling all the strings... smile
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2084345 - 05/17/13 06:10 PM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Nikolas]
Charles Peck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 50
Loc: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Hand written scores are great and a rare few folks are able to make these look quite professional. However, if it is consuming time that you are worried about, then I don't think there is any other option than to learn a notation software. Particularly when it comes to composing large ensemble works and creating parts.

It takes some time to learn a program well enough to engrave a solid product, but it is vital. Quality engraving will really affect a performers opinion of you and your music.

And the whole publisher thing is really going by the wayside in the last couple of decades, so I don't think there is much value in hoping that they will take care of it. Composers are more and more able to publish there own music (this is more profitable too) and publishers continue to shrink.

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#2084753 - 05/18/13 01:10 PM Re: for those who enjoy Liszt's later music . . . [Re: Michael Sayers]
Michael Sayers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 723
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
I am not interested in making money from music except in particular circumstances . . . but definitely presentation is significant so maybe there is a pianoworld member with the skills to produce a solid engraving who I could pay to do this with the better of them.

If anyone is interested just PM me, I can send links for the specific scores (which will include a long virtuoso work just completed today but not yet in a clean draft copy), you can have time to evaluate what would be involved with them and think of a fee if you want to do it.

There would need to be an opportunity included with that fee to review the Finale versions for possible corrections (not about aesthetics, just about notes and the literal music notation, such as which sides of chord stems certain note heads are on, groupings of connected sixteenth notes "all as one" vs. two groups of three vs. three groups of two, et c. - I assume Finale can manage all these types of specification?).


Mvh,
Michael

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