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Joined: Nov 2009
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The only way I can understand where youse guys are coming from is that either in general you don't value rhythms as much as I do (very possible, since I value them very highly), or (probably doubtful) you don't realize how much performances of such pieces depend on the player's flair, subtlety, and creativity with rhythm. Maybe try this: Just imagine playing the pieces with no flair or lilt -- like, basically metronomically -- and compare it to some good performances that you can find online -- and see if you still think what you just said.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Wow, the competition hasn't even started yet and the heated discussions/controversies have already begun. This should be fun.
Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA
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Wow, the competition hasn't even started yet and the heated discussions/controversies have already begun. This should be fun. No good! You have to take sides. 
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Joined: May 2001
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The only way I can understand where youse guys are coming from is that either in general you don't value rhythms as much as I do (very possible, since I value them very highly), or (probably doubtful) you don't realize how much performances of such pieces depend on the player's flair, subtlety, and creativity with rhythm. Maybe try this: Just imagine playing the pieces with no flair or lilt -- like, basically metronomically -- and compare it to some good performances that you can find online -- and see if you still think what you just said. As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree. I don't think the first two waltzes allow much creativity, flair, or anything else. I think he just chose them because he wanted to make that little segment unified in some way other than just choosing several more random Lyric Pieces. I listened to Rachmaninov playing the a minor Waltz. He didn't play it metronomically but OTOH I don't see how anyone could think "What a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in that little piece."
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As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree. No.  Let me talk about what I know -- I mean facts -- and then about what's "points of view." What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition. As for points of view: You may not feel those things are important, although to tell you the truth I don't see how you couldn't (and yes, that's a point of view).
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Joined: May 2001
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As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree. No. Let me talk about what I know -- I mean facts -- and then about what's "points of view." What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition. As for points of view: You may not feel those things are important, although to tell you the truth I don't see how you couldn't (and yes, that's a point of view). Mind bogglingly arrogant. Again, you assume what is just your opinion(calling it "what I know") is fact. Then more arrogance and a put down with the "You may not feel those things are important" part which only makes sense if the first part(your opinion) is true. Then(again!) the usual shock("I don't see how you couldn't") that someone might not agree with you.
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Joined: May 2005
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PL and Mark - As is usually the case gentlemen, you BOTH have valid arguments !!!!  Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant - even if he plays all three waltzes extremely well. Given the difficulty of everything else he's programmed, and the brevity of the first two of the three waltzes, in the great scheme of things this may not be a big deal. And just because it is a Grieg "Lyric Piece", there is absolutely nothing lightweight about the Opus 47 No. 1.
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Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant
He gets points from me just by not programming Chopin.
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Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant
He gets points from me just by not programming Chopin. And he loses points from me for not programming Brahms !!!
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I have disqualified Yekwon Sunwoo. 
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Grieg is one of my favorite composer so he gets extra bonus points from me.
Anyways, I have never been told by any of my teachers that playing extremely difficult pieces will get me better points. They said properly preparing the pieces and performing well is always better.
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
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Some observations.......
Hard to believe that Jury Chairman John Giordano has been involved with the Cliburn since 1973. He certainly carved out a wonderful career for himself in Fort Worth.
In looking at the US schools/conservatories attended by the contestants....Juilliard and Curtis are heavily represented. Other schools included in the mix are the Boston Conservatory (2), New England Conservatory (1), TCU (2 - no surprise there), Yale (1), Peabody (1), Indiana University/South Bend (1) and Principia College (1).
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....[this that and the other, but nothing about the substance].... Do you have anything to say about the substance of what we were discussing? Do you really want to say that any of those specifics I stated aren't so? Which ones? I welcome you to give it a try. The "it's just your opinion" stuff that you love so much doesn't apply to everything, you know.
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OP
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Not to backtrack the conversation to Grieg, but I have to say that the only servicing the other end of the spectrum is probably a worse idea than a few delicacies, e.g.:
Preliminary Recital, Phase I
LISZT Hungarian Rhapsody No. 9
MUSSORGSKY Pictures at an Exhibition
Preliminary Recital, Phase II
WAGNER-LISZT Isoldens Liebestod
BRAHMS Sonata No. 3 in F Minor, op. 5
Semifinal Recital
THEOFANIDIS Birichino
BEETHOVEN Variations and Fugue in E-flat Major, op. 35 ("Eroica")
PROKOFIEV Sonata No. 6 in A Major, op. 82
I love all of those pieces, but that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth and such heavy programming really wears down an audience.
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[...] I love all of those pieces, but that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth and such heavy programming really wears down an audience. Exactly! The program itself deserves as much artistic attention as the execution of the individual pieces of which it is comprised. Pacing, flow, texture, dramatic arc, etc., apply to the macro (program) as well as the micro (performance). The program itself should "do" something.
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
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....that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth.... Nonsense! -- he includes the Theofanidis Birichino! (Everybody has to include the Theofanidis Birichino.)
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Preliminary Recital, Phase I
BACH Toccata in G Minor, BWV 915
SCRIABIN Three Études, op. 65
RAVEL Gaspard de la nuit
Preliminary Recital, Phase II
BEETHOVEN Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, op. 111
LIGETI Étude VI: Automne àVarsovie
GRIEG Waltz in A Minor, op. 12, no. 2
Waltz in E Minor, op. 38, no. 7
Valse-impromptu in E Minor, op. 47, no. 1
LISZT Mephisto Waltz No. 1
I feel like if he took out the Grieg, he'd be left playing only the most ridiculous ball-busters in the entire repertoire. Seriously?! Gaspard + the op.65 etudes in one recital, then Op.111 followed by the Ligeti and Mephisto Waltz in another?
Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II
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What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition. If that's the case, there are still thousands upon thousands of pieces more worthy to be programmed AND STILL BE effective at showing all that "musical personality." Obviously, you belong to the camp that believes one can program anything and everything he/she wants, even for an international competition of such caliber. Fine. That's your stance. My stance remains that the Grieg was programmed for shock value, which may engender more than a few chuckles from the audience when the said repertoire's difficulty cliff becomes so apparent and appalling.
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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Joined: Nov 2007
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For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself. And is there something wrong with that? IMO, competition mocking is a great idea, and competitors should do it at every opportunity (especially if Darth Veda is on the jury and you aren't one of her students).
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