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#2084024 - 05/17/13 07:22 AM Recording p105 to mac
chessman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 75
Sorry to be such a noob, but I want to record via USB to my mac. I really want to record using the p105 voice, as in making a genuine recording of what is being played on the p105 that I can then save or whatever. I've tried using garage band, but I'm pretty sure it's using a standard piano voice and not the p105 voice.

Feel free to pour scorn on my general ineptitude.

Thanks.

P.S As you can probably gather, I'm looking for the simplest possible way to do this! Just a plain line-in recording of a piece. Cheers.

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#2084027 - 05/17/13 07:26 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
chessman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 75
Actually, it might be using the p105...

How can I tell?

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#2084071 - 05/17/13 09:12 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
Nah - don't worry because this is the sort of thing you run into all the time with midi/digital audio recording. For one thing, your computer (if it's running though ordinary small computer speakers) is going to render the piano sound very differently than your piano speakers or headphones.

There may be four things happening here:

1. It's a midi recording of the piano and it's triggering your piano on play back

2. It's a midi recording of the piano but it's triggering some internal sounds from the computer.

3. It's an audio recording of the piano.

4. It's an audio recording of internal 'piano' sounds from your computer.

To check for one, turn down the volume of the piano on playback.....if the sound goes off, its' scenario 1.

To check for three, make a new recording with the volume of the piano down (or experiment putting it up and down). If volume is off, or goes up and down, it's scenario 3

Scenarios 2 & 4 are using sounds from inside the computer - So using the recorder in the computer, you should be able to change the sound....the piano may be just a default or it's somehow sussed out you're playing a piano sound in the DP.

From what you describe, it sounds like 3)

Try recording different sounds from your p105 - see what happens....
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2084078 - 05/17/13 09:21 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
In this context USB doesn't carry audio, only MIDI. In other words it only tells your computer what notes you have played and how hard and when. It will allow you to drive a software piano on your computer but not record audio from your piano. To record audio you need to run a cable from the line-out (or headphone jack, if you don't have one) on your piano to the line-in on your computer.

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#2084109 - 05/17/13 10:43 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Gvfarns is right about the audio cables -- that's what you'll need to record the sound of the DP. Either get a cable to run from the keyboard's line out to the computer's line in, or from the keyboard's headphone jack to the computer's line in (you may have to experiment a bit to figure out how to get the best quality).

Very important: with GarageBand, there are two types of tracks: virtual (software) instrument tracks, which record MIDI data and play it through GB's virtual instrument sounds, and real instrument tracks, which record audio. When you run the line from your keyboard to the computer, make sure you are recording on a real instrument track. It sounds like what you have been doing is using a virtual instrument track and it has been using GarageBand's built-in piano sample. Also, with GarageBand it is not possible to play MIDI data through an external device such as your DP -- the MIDI data can only be played through the software's sample sets (unless there has been a change in a recent version that I'm not aware of).
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2084142 - 05/17/13 11:55 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: Thomas Williams]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
Thomas Williams said: ......with GarageBand it is not possible to play MIDI data through an external device such as your DP -- the MIDI data can only be played through the software's sample sets (unless there has been a change in a recent version that I'm not aware of).

That is a rather strange omission on Apple Mac's part since routing the midi-out to a chosen location has been a feature of midi sequencers (as they were called then) since the mid 1980's. In fact, the Apple Mac was one of the few computers that could run professional music software such as Cubase back then...the other was the Atari ST.

If it can receive midi signals, why would it not be able to send them out again?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2084177 - 05/17/13 01:31 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: toddy]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: toddy
Thomas Williams said:
That is a rather strange omission on Apple Mac's part since routing the midi-out to a chosen location has been a feature of midi sequencers (as they were called then) since the mid 1980's. In fact, the Apple Mac was one of the few computers that could run professional music software such as Cubase back then...the other was the Atari ST.

If it can receive midi signals, why would it not be able to send them out again?

Good question. Maybe the better question is why Apple omitted that functionality from the program. The thing is, GarageBand isn't designed as a general purpose MIDI sequencer -- and it isn't professional grade software either (though it could be used for some limited professional applications). I was using it for rudimentary audio recording long before I had much use for the virtual instruments. (Come to think of it, I still have barely used the virtual instruments at all -- although I have experimented a bit in recent months with what they can do.)

But yes -- the addition of a MIDI sequencing function with the ability to send the messages to external devices would improve the usefulness of GarageBand immensely for some.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2084180 - 05/17/13 01:40 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I use a Mac and I found Garage Band to be rather clunky for what I needed. You can download a free version of Audacity for Mac that will work much better for audio recording purposes. For MIMI I haven't yet figured out what I want to use, but I have used Reaper in the past and that works great.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2084326 - 05/17/13 05:23 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
chessman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 75
Thanks as always guys.

So far, I have established the following:

Whichever voice I select on the p105, a piano voice still plays through my computer speakers. Both the piano speakers and the keyboard speakers play at the same time.

If I turn the p105 volume down to nothing, a piano voice still plays through the computer speakers. It sounds very similar to the p105, but I know that doesn't really mean anything.

Changing the voice on the piano does not change the voice on the computer.

Does that help with the diagnosis?

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#2084328 - 05/17/13 05:25 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
chessman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 75
Also, is it definitely the case that USB does not allow direct audio recording? I think I'm right that one of you suggested this may be the cause. Really all I want is to record myself playing and have a saved file, preferably of the exact same sound from the p105.

Thanks again -your expert help is gratefully received.

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#2084329 - 05/17/13 05:28 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
chessman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 75
It really does sound very like the p105.... such a slight difference that the speakers could have created. Weird because the other evidence seems to suggest it's just a MIDI voice. Confused!

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#2084352 - 05/17/13 06:24 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: chessman
Thanks as always guys.

So far, I have established the following:

Whichever voice I select on the p105, a piano voice still plays through my computer speakers. Both the piano speakers and the keyboard speakers play at the same time.

If I turn the p105 volume down to nothing, a piano voice still plays through the computer speakers. It sounds very similar to the p105, but I know that doesn't really mean anything.

Changing the voice on the piano does not change the voice on the computer.

Does that help with the diagnosis?

This means you are definitely using a software instrument track on GarageBand. The piano sound coming from your computer speakers is GarageBand's virtual piano sample. (You can change the tone to another of GarageBand's virtual instrument sounds, if you wish -- but that's another subject.) Your DP is playing its own sample through its own speakers, while the USB connection is sending MIDI messages to GarageBand, causing it to play the notes from the virtual instrument that you have selected (a piano sound by default).

Originally Posted By: chessman

Also, is it definitely the case that USB does not allow direct audio recording? I think I'm right that one of you suggested this may be the cause. Really all I want is to record myself playing and have a saved file, preferably of the exact same sound from the p105.

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is correct. I don't own a P105, but my understanding is that the USB connection on this model (and pretty much any keyboard with a USB connection) is solely for the transmission of MIDI data, not audio signals. To record audio from your DP, you will need audio cables which you must run either from the output jacks on the back panel or from a headphone jack, and either plug them into your computer's line-in or into an external audio interface. Then, in GarageBand, when you select "create new track," be sure to select "real instrument track." (From this point, you'll find there are controls in GarageBand for adjusting the recording level and other audio parameters.)
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2084359 - 05/17/13 06:33 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: chessman
Also, is it definitely the case that USB does not allow direct audio recording?


Definitely the case. No DP anywhere allows audio recording over USB. You need to run an audio cable from a line-out or headphone jack to the line-in of your computer. The line out (aux out) will produce better results.

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#2084375 - 05/17/13 07:03 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: gvfarns]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 232
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: chessman
Also, is it definitely the case that USB does not allow direct audio recording?


Definitely the case. No DP anywhere allows audio recording over USB. You need to run an audio cable from a line-out or headphone jack to the line-in of your computer. The line out (aux out) will produce better results.


What gvfarns and Thomas Williams said. The USB connection does not pass audio--only MIDI. It's that simple.

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#2084439 - 05/17/13 09:17 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: gvfarns]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Definitely the case. No DP anywhere allows audio recording over USB.


Isn't that's only because the DP makers haven't got round to it yet that this is the case. Surprising really that it hasn't been standard for 5 years or so - audio streaming over USB is common and would seem an obvious thing to do. Why convert to analogue for this type of transfer? They are, after all, a digital pianos.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2329185 - 09/20/14 04:04 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
JcKeys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 18
Hi..

Sorry to say, but the p-105 will not work with a Mac. As in, it will not be able to send/receive MIDI messages thru USB. Yes you can rec Audio thru an audio interface but not MIDI.

The reason being Yamaha does not have the Mac drivers for it. I too have the p-105. It communicated midi messages to an Wndows PC after installing the drivers, but not to an MAC.

I don't get it. Why they haven't made drivers for MAC, assuming most of the musicians use a MAC.
ONly hope would be to wait till make drivers for Mac.
_________________________
Korg Triton Studio, Yamaha P-105, MM6, PortaSound PSS-460 / Roland XP-60, SH-2000, Sonic Cell
Akai APC40 / M-Audio Oxygen 8 / Novation Remote SL Zero / Behringer FCB 1010 / Casio VL-Tone / Arturia 32-Key Anlog Factory / CME X-Keys.



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#2329192 - 09/20/14 05:20 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: JcKeys]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: JcKeys
Hi..

Sorry to say, but the p-105 will not work with a Mac. As in, it will not be able to send/receive MIDI messages thru USB. Yes you can rec Audio thru an audio interface but not MIDI.

The reason being Yamaha does not have the Mac drivers for it. I too have the p-105. It communicated midi messages to an Wndows PC after installing the drivers, but not to an MAC.

I don't get it. Why they haven't made drivers for MAC, assuming most of the musicians use a MAC.
ONly hope would be to wait till make drivers for Mac.


There must be something wrong with the set up. It is unthinkable that you cannot play a p105 to Mac via USB. Maybe you need to enable something in the program you're running in Mac, in the MIDI options window.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2329219 - 09/20/14 08:51 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I, too, find it hard to believe that it wouldn't work on a Mac. Wouldn't something like this work?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2329234 - 09/20/14 10:22 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
Chrisl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Chicago, IL
I can record my 105 to my macbook pro via the usb cable. However, it's just using the virtual 'Grand Piano' sound. Not sure why you can't, for me, it's just plug and record.

May I ask...is there a way to record in GB the Steinway sound in Ivory II? I haven't figured out if this is possible yet.
_________________________
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.

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#2329243 - 09/20/14 10:51 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: Chrisl]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Chrisl
I can record my 105 to my macbook pro via the usb cable. However, it's just using the virtual 'Grand Piano' sound. Not sure why you can't, for me, it's just plug and record.
Sounds like an issue on the software end, what signals it's sending back to the P105 to play the sound from the sound generator.

I can't help you with your 2nd question as I don't work with either GB or Ivory.


Edited by Morodiene (09/20/14 10:52 AM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2329260 - 09/20/14 11:52 AM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: toddy]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 88
Loc: France
It seems that Yamaha devices are not MIDI-USB Class compliant and then need a specific driver.

A look at the MIDI-USB driver sources of Linux shows 3 initialization functions :
* for USB MIDI Class compliant devices,
* for Yamaha devices,
* for some other devices (with a table of specific models).
A generic driver of other operating systems could only have the first one.

NOTA : According to http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalpianos/p_series/p-105/, support page, I would have said that there is no Mac driver... and would be wrong as Morodiene has a better link.


Edited by Frédéric L (09/20/14 12:13 PM)

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#2358972 - 12/06/14 04:45 PM Re: Recording p105 to mac [Re: chessman]
EnnisPhil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 1
For what it's worth: I found that GarageBand (on 10.9 Mavericks) was able to recognize the P105 as a MIDI device with no additional effort. I've also found OSX drivers at http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/en/keyboardconnect

But as for being able to get the .SMF file from the keyboard to my Mac, well...if I had a Windows machine anywhere near the keyboard I'd be able to use the Musicsoft Downloader http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail...rope.yamaha.com

But I don't. Crossover Mac (a nice wrapper around Wine) is able to run this Windows program on a Mac, once the workaround described at https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=24541 is applied...but there's some sort of driver issue that seems to be causing me to not be able to see the keyboard.

So...I'm stuck using GarageBand unless somebody's worked out how to transfer the recording that's saved on the P105 onto a Mac...

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