Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2085179 - 05/19/13 12:10 PM Sitting While Tuning
DavidWB Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Grand Junction CO
Twice recently I've read about the deleterious result of sitting for extended periods of time. It has been an eyeopener for me. For many, extended sitting occurs while watching TV. For me it's sitting at my computer and while tuning. Personally, I'm taking this to heart and am determined to make a habit of at least standing very briefly several times each hour, including during tuning.

Here's the information that got my attention and has motivated me:

Sitting calculated to be worse than smoking

Minute for minute, sitting inactive in a chair takes more off your lifespan than smoking tobacco cigarette. Better get up ned move around while you watch TV, according to a study conducted at the University of Queensland in Australia, in which they tabulated and studied TV habits of more than 11,000 people. They controlled for exercise level, smoking and other things that would skew the results.

They found that for every hour spent watching TV, life expectancy was reduced by almost 22 minutes. On the other hand, their calculations showed that smoking a single cigarette reduced life expectancy by only 11 minutes.

The researchers noted that it is prolonged sitting that causes the problem. Their suggestion is to get up frequently or to watch TV while standing from time to time. As mentioned, the researchers factored out the level of physical activity in making their calculations. That means that people of high physical activity who spend a lot of time on the couch are just as vulnerable to lifespan reduction as inactive couch potatoes.


This link is about the research of Dr. Joan Vernikos, a former NASA scientist, whose book title makes the point sharply: Sitting Kills, Moving Heals. Her advice is surprisingly simple and easy to do.

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness...mpaign=20130503

David Bauguess

Top
(ad PTG 568) Win a Year Journal Subscription
PTG 57th Annual Convention - Atlanta
#2085181 - 05/19/13 12:19 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21293
Loc: Oakland
So why are you concerned about tuning? It would seem that playing the piano is more of a problem than tuning them.

Incidentally, if you are a piano professional, the rules of the board is that you should state that in a signature on your messages. There is a notice to professionals to that effect in the Piano Forum.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2085187 - 05/19/13 12:32 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
IMO, sitting with good posture is probably better than standing half bent over the piano. I do both.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

Top
#2085211 - 05/19/13 01:23 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: BDB]
DavidWB Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Grand Junction CO
Originally Posted By: BDB
So why are you concerned about tuning? It would seem that playing the piano is more of a problem than tuning them.

Incidentally, if you are a piano professional, the rules of the board is that you should state that in a signature on your messages. There is a notice to professionals to that effect in the Piano Forum.


My concern is with sitting for extended periods of time. For me, that includes tuning. Of course, it could include playing. I'm particularly interested in health and believe this information is significant, and I thought it might be of interest to some others who sit a lot while servicing pianos.

I've been a professional piano technician for 32 years.

David Bauguess, RPT

Top
#2085213 - 05/19/13 01:30 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
If you tune taller upright pianos then you have to stand up. Unless you have 6 ft long arms. I personally have never seen a tuner with arms that long.
_________________________
J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation

Top
#2085235 - 05/19/13 02:02 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: Nash. Piano Rescue]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7247
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Nash. Piano Rescue
If you tune taller upright pianos then you have to stand up. Unless you have 6 ft long arms. I personally have never seen a tuner with arms that long.


All depends of the torque, I have been trained to tune even large ones sitting, but the position is not so evident to catch, then to keep, because the blood does not go as well up toward the hand.

If the pins are very tight anyway then it is difficult.

If not the weight of the body can be used.

It is better to be sitting assuming the back can stay "straight" (that point is not evident.

Laying on the upright the back is twisted plus get stress, certainly not good for us.


Edited by Olek (05/19/13 02:03 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

Top
#2085249 - 05/19/13 03:00 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

I was never trained to sit while tuning. There has never even been a time when I tried tuning while sitting.

When sitting it is impossible to engage any of the hip or leg muscle groups to stabilize the body when tuning.

One is therefore relying upon arm and shoulder muscle strength only to move the resistance.

I can imagine this is where a lot of the repetitive strain injuries in the arm and shoulder come from.

Further, weak or problematic lower back muscle groups (lumbar group) are mostly due to weak abdominals. Strengthen the abdominals and a lot of lower back problems disappear over time
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top
#2085269 - 05/19/13 03:26 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
DavidWB Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Grand Junction CO
Interesting, Dan. You're obviously well beyond what I'm thinking. Would you provide some detail on your body position/posture in relation to very short verticals and grands, e.g. how straight your spine is; are you "hinging" at low spine?; do you lower yourself by spreading your legs wide?

Just before reading your post, I watched The Ted Talk by Eric Goodman (last video on this page), which seems very relevant:

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/02/15/foundation-training.aspx

You've got me intrigued that tuning all pianos while standing might be the best goal to strive for.

Thanks,

David Bauguess, RPT


Edited by DavidWB (05/19/13 03:36 PM)

Top
#2085270 - 05/19/13 03:27 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7247
Loc: France
Oh no, Dan, the legs are used, a little the same as when one play the piano.

If not there is a lot of damage indeed.

The posture anyway is strange, you need to raise the ankle for a good transmission and to keep the back straight.

I rarely do so, because I rarely tune a lot of vertical pianos, but I would if necessary. My back pain when tuning too much pianos standing are more in the upper part of the back, due to an old motorcycle problem.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

Top
#2085466 - 05/19/13 11:24 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
plns Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 59
I tune all verticals standing and all grands sitting. I would tune grands standing if I thought it was good for my back but all literature I have read states that standing and performing physical acts at odd angles puts odd loads on the trunk and can cause more problems than it s worth.

Personally, I love tuning verticals for this reason and feel like I have gotten some form of exorcize and I burn more calories.

Top
#2085492 - 05/20/13 12:01 AM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Much depends on the height and body proportions of the tuner.

Sitting or standing, tuning is a whole body thing and position of the feet is important. A good sitting posture for any instrument is one where the person can stand up at any given moment without having to move their feet.

A variety of postures is helpful.

I wonder what the pundits will be saying next week.

There is an old woodcut that turns up from time to time showing a short frock coated man stretching up to tune a tall giraffe piano with a T hammer.
The tuner in Norman Rockwells' famous painting is short enough to tune a grand standing up. I'm too tall but I will stand up for the highest few notes rather than move a heavy piano bench around.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#2085613 - 05/20/13 07:52 AM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
It seems to me that this is a warning about the detrimental effects of being in a seated position for extended periods. Proper posture, of course, is very important in all activities and not just tuning. The caution is circulatory, not osteopathic or neurologic.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2085699 - 05/20/13 11:17 AM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
erichlof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 367
Oh sit!

Top
#2085764 - 05/20/13 01:15 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Eric Gloo Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1226
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
I find I hear what I'm supposed to be hearing much better if I sit, rather than stand.
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

Top
#2085841 - 05/20/13 03:40 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
nagrom Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 6
Loc: Western CT, USA
Life expectancy is reduced by 1 minute for every minute spent existing.
_________________________
Morgan Kelsey
http://www.morgankelsey.com/music/
PTG Associate Member

Top
#2085986 - 05/20/13 08:45 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
BenP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 163
Loc: South Jersey
I have often wondered about this very subject and a few times almost started a thread "sitting vs. standing." The technician I learned from almost always stood, but I almost always sit.

Like rxd pointed out, I think it has a lot to do with the height of the tuner. I'm a little over 6 feet, so standing and tuning a spinet feels very awkward and difficult for me. A full sized upright is different, but I frankly do very few of those in my service area. But same thing with grands - I feel much more balanced and flexible in a sitting position. I find my neck gets stiff from looking down so much when I stand and tune. I stand only for an occasional change in posture, or on the treble end of some uprights to get a better angle on the tuning pin.


Edited by BenP (05/20/13 08:46 PM)
_________________________
Ben Patterson
Part-time Piano Tech
Rural South Jersey

Top
#2085999 - 05/20/13 09:07 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: nagrom]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2039
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: nagrom
Life expectancy is reduced by 1 minute for every minute spent existing.
THAT ... is profound in the way that I can appreciate profoundity!
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

Top
#2086002 - 05/20/13 09:09 PM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Dave B Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1903
Loc: Philadelphia area
It hurts my back to stand while tuning,and I'm only 6'.

Top
#2086203 - 05/21/13 10:36 AM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
I just googled Normal Rockwell piano tuner (images) to refresh my memory.
He looks to be about 5' nuthin'.
Judging by all the stuff sticking out his back pockets and the still fairly sharp creases in his trousers (a sure sign of storeboughten goods), I don't think he ever sat down.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



Top
#2086213 - 05/21/13 10:49 AM Re: Sitting While Tuning [Re: DavidWB]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: DavidWB
Interesting, Dan. You're obviously well beyond what I'm thinking. Would you provide some detail on your body position/posture in relation to very short verticals and grands, e.g. how straight your spine is; are you "hinging" at low spine?; do you lower yourself by spreading your legs wide?
Just before reading your post, I watched The Ted Talk by Eric Goodman (last video on this page), which seems very relevant:
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/02/15/foundation-training.aspx
You've got me intrigued that tuning all pianos while standing might be the best goal to strive for.
Thanks,
David Bauguess, RPT


Hi David,

Sorry for the late reply, we just went through a holiday weekend here.

I spread my legs apart to get to a good height for tuning grand’s. This way there is very little bending of the back at the waistline. For small uprights I bend directly at the waist while keeping my back a straight line. Of course for tall uprights there is no need to bend much at any time.

Also because piano tuning is such a sedentary trade, I work out regularly to keep the mind and body in shape and muscle groups strong. This type of “off-court training” leaves little room for repetitive strain injuries.

I will have a look at the TED Talk video.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
132 registered (accordeur, 36251, AmateurBob, 44 invisible), 1638 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75584 Members
42 Forums
156289 Topics
2295325 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Shostakovich and Prokofiev
by Verbum mirabilis
07/30/14 06:01 PM
Used piano buying choices
by BrianDX
07/30/14 05:55 PM
You & Your Piano
by DancerJ
07/30/14 05:12 PM
Fun etudes?
by chasingrainbows
07/30/14 04:41 PM
Music competitions are rife with corruption says JLWebber
by pianoloverus
07/30/14 02:51 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission