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#2086339 - 05/21/13 03:47 PM Sonata Form - Hadyn F major 23 - Help!
Monsieur_Pichon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 306
Loc: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Hi guys, I'm having problems analyzing the sonata forms (I started to learn the sonata form 1st movement). I'm trying really hard here but I have no lucky!

I'm having problems finding where EXACTLY ends the Expositions, when exactly start the transition, etc...How can I get sure about that? My teacher ask me to study all Haydn sonatas as a practice method but I cannot find ANY book with that info (I know there is a Mozart and Beethoven book analyzing his sonata forms, but I cannot find any of Haydn).
Can somoane give me a hand, specially with this sonata?

Exposition goes from 1-11?
Transitions starts in 12?
The 2nd tonal group starts at 21?


I'm so, so, so lost here. Any help is good to hear!


Thank you all!


PD: Here is the link to the sonata http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/c9/IMSLP00137-Haydn_-_Piano_Sonata_No_23_in_F.pdf

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#2086451 - 05/21/13 09:17 PM Re: Sonata Form - Hadyn F major 23 - Help! [Re: Monsieur_Pichon]
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1999
Loc: South Jersey
Remember sonata form consists of:

Exposition Development and Recapitulation. You are calling the first theme or subject the exposition. The exposition consists of the first theme or primary subject. This is followed by a transition where the key modulates to the dominant. Then there is usually a closing theme (or themes) sometimes followed by a short codetta. (This would take you up to the development. It is usually repeated so that means the __________ ends at the repeat sign.) This is followed by the development. The main theme (primary theme/subject) returns at the recapitulation. It is usually followed by a transition that DOES NOT modulate, so that the secondary theme is also in the tonic. This is followed by closing theme(s) coda or codetta.

So you are correct with your bars numbers but you are calling the main/primary theme the wrong thing. (And I believe this ends at bar 12. Where the transition starts on the 2nd beat of 12.)

So you basically have this; you're just using the wrong terms.


Edited by DameMyra (05/21/13 09:18 PM)
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA

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#2086471 - 05/21/13 10:13 PM Re: Sonata Form - Hadyn F major 23 - Help! [Re: Monsieur_Pichon]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1241
Loc: London
This is quite an easy one. You see those C#s in bar 14 and 15? Why are they there, you need to ask yourself.

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#2086516 - 05/21/13 11:31 PM Re: Sonata Form - Hadyn F major 23 - Help! [Re: Monsieur_Pichon]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hello,

Sorry to hear about your trouble with this piece.
I only wish to add a brief outline of this Haydn sonata to simply aid in your studies, so I am not being very specific with measure numbers. I still do hope you find my post helpful.

Exposition:
First Subject --Tonic, F major, beginning to middle of first page.
Transition-- starts middle of first page. Helps to modulate to dominant.
Second Subject -- Dominant, C major. Second page.
Codetta -- ends in Dominant, C major. Second page.

Development:
3rd page starts in Dominant, C major, and modulate to different keys.

Recapitulation:
First subject -- Tonic, F major. Middle of 4th page.
Second subject -- Tonic, F major. 5th page.

Coda: End of 5th page.

Wish you the best.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

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#2086747 - 05/22/13 11:48 AM Re: Sonata Form - Hadyn F major 23 - Help! [Re: Monsieur_Pichon]
Monsieur_Pichon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 306
Loc: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Thank you for your anwers, guys!

I managed to solve the problem, and know I can finally analyze almost all classical sonatas of Haydn. Well, I really appreciate your help.


Thank you!

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