Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards My 1st thread and I have the question to prove it :D

Hi Pianoworld.com forum members,

Disclaimer: I sincerely apologize in advance if the following is a recurring question here on the forum, but I'd like to get your input as to the latest developments & products.

Ok, so I am a hobbyist musician. I play guitar and bass mostly. My son started taking piano lessons last year and he made quite a progress. So far he's been practicing on a Casio Privia PX110 and I want to get him something (a home digital piano) that will draw his motivation even further.

Based on the little shopping around I did I am more inclined towards Kawai as a brand in general. I find the wooden keys on CE220 very tempting. I know that the stage pianos like Kawai MP6, or Roland's offer more, but then I'll have to find a stand/table, hook it to some good speakers and at the end it wouldn't look as nice.

Budget: $2,000, or less of course.
Purchasing options: I live in the USA's midwest, there is a Schmitt Piano store as well as Guitar Center about 45 mins. from where I live. Buying online is also an option although I'd prefer not to expose the piano to mail carriers handling or mishandling rather.

So, please let me hear your suggestions.
Thanks.

I would also consider a portable instrument such as the Roland FP-80 or Kawai ES7 with the optional furniture stand and pedal lyre.

Kind regards,
James
x

I wouldn't be persuaded by 'wooden' keys on a digital piano. They are there to score points over models that don't have them. They look great but in this instance serve no purpose (except bragging rights by salesmen).

Why not involve your son's teacher in this buying process.

Well, my son's piano teacher is kind of an old school, and has little experience w/ digital pianos. He has a concert grand Steinway that my son practices on during the lesson. He actually recommended Yamaha but I don't think he follows the latest products from other makers.

I think the wooden keys and Kawai's implementation of it adds to the realism, but given that their newer action (that utilizes 3 sensors) is getting good reviews from members here, I'm a little confused as to which model I should get.

Please let me hear your recommendations, other brands (Roland, Casio, ...etc.) are welcomed.

If money were not an issue, I'd recommend the Yamaha NU1 or N1. Both models are hybrids which means they have a real acoustic piano action but there are no strings.

I own an N3 and am planning to buy a second hybrid, the NU1. I really like the action of the NU1, actually I like it better than the action of my N3.

Spend some time shopping around. If you're not sure what to buy consider renting a piano from your local piano dealer.

Again, wooden keys in a digital piano serve no real purpose. They look good, some claim to feel a difference, but it's really just marketing hype ... and my CP5 has wooden keys. It's hype.

FWIW --

Try a Casio PX-850, and see how you (and he) like it. It's two "generations" newer than the PX-110. Improved action, improved sound, better loudspeakers, higher-power amp.

And it's a "full cabinet" model, not a slab. Leaves you with lots of spare change.

If you could find a used Roland FP-7F within your price range, that would be something to consider. Built-in loudspeakers, and a "furniture stand" is either available or standard.

. CHarles

bias -- I own a PX-350. With a $2000 budget, you can get something better than that.

Yamaha CLP-430? It should be $1800-2000.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Here are a few follow ups:

1. Do you think the differences between the Casio Celviano 650 & Privia PX-850 justify the price hike? The MSRP on the 850 is $1,999 so I'd expect the retail price to be around $1,700, no?

2. Has the Roland FP series been discontinued? What would you guys recommend from their current lines within the $2000 range?

3. If I am willing to go as far as $2400~2500, do you think the Kawai CN34 is a much better option than the Celviano 850?

4. I am kind of biased against Yamaha a little bit as they seem like they dropped the ball on their synth & workstation line, and I tend to think that they're maybe doing the same w/ their digital piano line, but you can always prove me wrong

The FP-7F seems to be available:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FP7FBK

There are lots of posts here comparing the various Roland models -- keyboard differences (Ivory-G vs Ivory-S), piano patches, etc. There are also some knowledgable people who just don't like Roland's "Supernatural" sound. You'll have to figure out where you sit on the "love/hate" spectrum.

I _suspect_ that the FP-7F will be replaced by the FP-80, and the FP-4F will be replaced by the FP-50. At which time, there may be bargains on "old stock".

I haven't played a PX-850 yet, and haven't seen one side-by-side with an FP-7F.

. Charles

[edit note -- original said "RD-80" / "RD-50", an error.]

It's more like $1100, on the Web -- might be more at "brick-and-mortar" stores :

http://www.zzounds.com/item--CASPX850

The variations within the Casio line aren't simple. The PX-850 is _not_ a PX-350 with added features. It's a PX-350 with some stuff removed (fewer voices, and I _think_ no "auto-chord" and "auto-harmony") and other stuff added (string resonance, "note-off" velocity sensing, and others).

IMHO, "string resonance" is one of the key differences between the sound of a typical digital piano and an acoustic piano. Roland does a good job of simulating it, especially if you increase the level from the default (which you can do on the higher-end Rolands). Kawai (the models I've tested) does a less-good job.

. Charles

Sorry, I mixed the two, the MSRP on the Celviano 650 is $1,999. The PX-850 is much less.

Regarding the Celviano 650, which I can't seem to find a lot of info about, can anyone describe the quality of the non-piano tones? The specs say it has 300+ tones but how many of them are good, i.e. not just GM sounds?

Just to vent a bit: the variations and the non-intuitive features vs model numbers is getting a little too complicated here. I'll take my headphones and hit the stores this weekend and see what I'll find. Will report back.

OK, so I took my son and went to the Schmitt Music store today. I went with a little bias towards the Celviano AP 650 and among the DPs WITHIN the same price range, I still liked it best. At first, I tried a high end Roland HP and that was obviously in a different league, fantastic to say the least. But at the end, it boiled down to the Celviano 650 and the Roland RP301-R, which I felt although it has a very nice piano sample, it does not have the greatest speakers to match them.

I don't think I saw a single Yamaha there, now I think they maybe are not a dealer for the Yammies. Other than the acoustic pianos from the usual suspects there were several Rolands and Kawais all over the place. The Celvianos were available only recently, and although they had a store-wide clearance sale, they were not too flexible in discounting the Casios as they just arrived. Still, I think the 650 is a great value and will benefit my son greatly. To a 10-yr old, the Celviano will be plenty of a Piano for a while. It has tons of features, and sounds really good (to my ears anyway).

Thank you guys for your advice.

The AP650 looks like a PX-350 with much-upgraded loudspeakers and amps.

For a 10-year-old? H-e-a-v-e-n.

. Charles

That's like saying my Prius is a Yaris with an electric motor I think I'll agree to disagree here. The Roland RP301R did not sound as good as the "PX-350 w/ better speakers and amps". Most certainly (as thru headphones it sounded better) due to the not-so-great speakers and amps. But I left the store with a very good impression of the HP series. They had a special sale on the HP503 from $6000 to $3,900, till end of May, but it was still too rich for my blood.

My biggest disappointment was the Kawai CE220, it sounded the thinnest (i.e. extreme lack of bass) out of the bunch.

Many Rolands that I've played -- through headphones -- have impressed me, both the "slab pianos" (FP- and RD- series) and the "furniture pianos" (HP series). But they're at a higher price point than _any_ Casio. This is a case where more money buys better sound (if you like the "SuperNatural" sound).

I don't think we disagree about that. Would I trade my PX-350 for an FP-7F or FP-80, for improved piano sound? For sure!

I'm sorry if you think I insulted (or under-rated) the AP-650 by calling it a "PX-350 with upgraded speakers and amps". I looked at the specs, and that's how I read them. Maybe I was wrong.

. Charles

No worries, it's just that I think we view (and/or value) things differently. To me, the amps and speakers are a crucial part of the home piano. Otherwise, I could've just got a Kawai MP6 (~$1500) and called it a day. But it doesn't look as nice, I am not sure if it has a 3-pedal unit accessory, and it'll need a nice looking stand/table + speakers.

At the sample level (and it seems that I liked the Supernatural sound), I think the Rolands sounded better than the Casios, but I wasn't comparing only the samples.