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Originally Posted by Bobpickle
Originally Posted by Morodiene
I have no problem with scales and arpeggios in all keys. My understanding of what was written by Frycek is that they had you do a single measure in all keys, and I wondered if this was a common practice technique for a difficult measure within repertoire, and if so, if it helped.


I think it's a somewhat common pedagogic technique; I've read about it a few places, especially in regards to Chopin's op. 10.

Here are a few articles:

Transposing the Difficult Spot

Originally Posted by Graham Fitch
How it Works

A distinguished colleague once told me a story of how in the middle of his career as an international concert pianist he suddenly became aware of a fact about the piano that he was unaware of before. I was intrigued as to what this might be. In a flash of insight, he told me he realised that the black keys were higher up and further away! When we play, we are constantly making micro adjustments within the hand and arm to accommodate the topography of the keyboard, the black-white terrain. Using our kinesthetic sense, we adapt our hand position by curving the long fingers (2, 3 and 4) very slightly more when playing white keys, slightly less so when playing black keys. When the short fingers (thumb and 5) play black keys, our position is shifted to the back of the keys, with a tiny wrist and forearm adjustment to accommodate this. So when we transpose, we actually learn versions of the same passage that are essentially the same and yet subtly different. We end up by knowing twelve versions of the passage. This is like looking at a statue from many different angles rather than just viewing it from one vantage point. We build up a more complete picture.



Painting the Forth Bridge: Learning The Goldberg Variations (in this article, he talks explicitly about his experience with the exact same copy of the Alfred Cortot Chopin etudes again in the context of transposing passages of works)


The Study Editions of Alfred Cortot


Cortot, his pupil my teacher, and me


Inventing Exercises From Pieces


Chopin 12 Studies op. 10 - Alfred Cortot Edition .pdf


Overpracticers Hanonymous


also, don't forget the time-honored tale of Liszt meeting Beethoven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beethoven_and_his_contemporaries#Beethoven_and_Franz_Liszt)
Thank you Bobpickle! No one has ever talked to me about this in my lessons, nor have I ever heard this technique on this thread forum or in master classes. That seems really odd! But I will definitely try this out and see if it helps. Always good to have more tricks in my arsenal. laugh

Last edited by Morodiene; 05/22/13 04:21 PM.

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The point I was trying to make is Cortot's exercises aren't written out as a less experienced player might need or expect. Cortot takes a certain level of expertise, ability to transpose easily etc. as given. He might give you only a single measure and expect you to run with it. It can be quite daunting. The exercises themselves are probably excellent but only if you can figure them out well enough to derive the benefit.


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Originally Posted by -Frycek
The point I was trying to make is Cortot's exercises aren't written out as a less experienced player might need or expect. Cortot takes a certain level of expertise, ability to transpose easily etc. as given. He might give you only a single measure and expect you to run with it. It can be quite daunting. The exercises themselves are probably excellent but only if you can figure them out well enough to derive the benefit.


Yeah, I'm a good example of this when I was browsing through the pdf of his Chopin etudes ed. earlier, even having some of your earlier comments in mind.

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