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#2087188 - 05/23/13 06:55 AM Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ...
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
Hi,

I'm currently looking for a digital piano to replace my current setup which is, a studiologic keyboard, galaxy piano and the monitor speakers used for the computer. I want to upgrade the keyboard and if possible not using the computer all the time.

I've a mixed feeling about the roland hp505, the keybed is great, it sounds good (maybe a bit muffled) but I'm afraid I would spend 2200€ and eventually end-up using it only with the computer.

As for the other piano in this category, I don't like yamaha (too heavy) and it's nearly impossible to find a kawai in my area. I could only try a CN-13.

The look is not important for me but having a console help focus I think.

Any advices?
Thanks

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#2087203 - 05/23/13 07:47 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10742
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Why do you think you'd end up using it with a computer? And is that a bad thing? I think you will get accustomed to the sound once you have it and will most likely be satisfied with it. Roland HPs are very nice, reliable pianos.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2087205 - 05/23/13 07:55 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
brooster Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: Tennessee
The FP-80 might be of interest. It has much in common with the HP505 but the price is lower:

All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!!
_________________________
The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

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#2087214 - 05/23/13 08:13 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
If you're planning on using a computer (software piano) anyway, why not order the Kawai VPC ? It is made with exactly that purpose in mind. Excellent keyboard and good touch curves for common SW piano's . Furthermore no frills you'll end up not using anyway it seems , like internal sounds.

Personally I'd rather make a thoughtful choice between hard- or software sound. If hardware has your preference - and why not ; it has a certain charm and advances over software, despite peta-byte size sample libraries - choose a very good instrument that you're sure of it won't bore you or break apart in the coming years. If SW has you're main interest, why spending so much on a hardware DP for those few moments you might use hardware only. HP505 seems overkill in that case. Try indeed the FP-80, ES7, CA-15 (same keybed as VPC) . Everything is a step up from the Studiologic IMHO, only on the new Numa Concert the verdict is still out.

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#2087342 - 05/23/13 11:41 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 445
Loc: Europe
If you like the Roland SN piano sound (the main piano sound, No.1 in the "piano" presets) and do not need any other features, then it is abolutely great! For excatly this I love it. smile

But if you from time to time love to play around with the other sounds, then better don´t expect to become satisfied with it and search on. frown
I for instance would like to have some great cathedral church organ sound for playing some Bach from time to time. But first you have to find one which could be useful.
Also, all sounds in the "others" sound bank seem to be half organized only. Neither all e-organ sounds nor all church organ sounds are grouped within the "others" bank in a block. If you finally found another sound and it´s a good one for you, then it is still not pragmatic to get started with it, because you first might want to optimize certain adjustments (reverb, brilliance, key touch) to the new sound. Unfortunately you can not store any individual combinations of settings and now just recall them. You have a global setup of sound parameters and can optimize (although not significantly change) your sound, i.e. adapt the main piano sound to your taste by reverb and brilliance, key touch sensitivity and some resonance settings). If you change to another sound, then you either have to stay with those global settings, although they will not fit to the other sound, or change all glogal settings, again, and again, and again, ..., each time you change sounds.
I am also dissapointed that although there are some really nice (and useful!) flute, brass and string sounds availabe, besides many useless other sounds, other real keyboard sounds besides the principal piano sound are often poor. The "early" bank is not very useful, in my opinion, besides the aha(!)-effect of how early fortepianos sound, you in the end will hardly play them becasue they just don´t reach to the beatiful richness of modern piano sound. The church organ sounds in the "others" bank are so different that you and can not use them aside within a piece, and the indeed useful e-organ sounds are spread over the sound bank so much, that it is just no possible to change between them quickly. Finally, asigning one organ sound to the lower part of the keyboard, and another one to the higher part of the keyboard is again quite some work, and then you still haven´t adjusted the volume balance between the two...

Whenever I play anther DP, I never become satisfied as I am playing my HP-505 piano implementation, and therefore I do not see any option to exchange it for something else.
But as I am much dissapointed with the rest, for what I also paid money for, I have my ears constantly open to find smething which could compete with the SN piano sound AND giving me additionally some useful other features on a digital keyboard instrument, like some which I have had already 20 years ago on my Technics KN 800 entertainment keyboard in superb quality available. Unbelievable that Technics is no more on the market, that´s a real loss for musicians. And unbelievable that none of the big DP manufactures besides the piano sound seem to be capable of implementing to the instrument also some other technology which I thought to have become standard already 20 years ago. frown
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2087398 - 05/23/13 12:49 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: UK
Don't buy the 505. That is already decided, by you.

Decide what you want, console or slab (slab for portability or not), mostly piano sounds, lots of other sounds, adjustable sythm sounds, inbuilt sound or use PC/tablet or both, keyboard action preference (the main brands all have a different feel), budget, then go from there. Easy smile

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#2087558 - 05/23/13 05:31 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
I'm trying to get a standalone instrument, mostly for the piano sound. Portability is not really a concern, and if I want other sound I can use the computer, this will always sound better.

I wouldn't go for a lower model, the speakers usually doesn't do justice to the sound and I couldn't really enjoy it without external speakers. I avoid using headphone, unless necessary, since my ears doesn't support it well, and I prefer using speakers anyways.

Maybe I'm overthinking too much and try to get the best of both world which is probably impossible smile
I guess I'll have to try it again.

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#2087776 - 05/24/13 05:48 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 445
Loc: Europe
The the HP-505 is quite a candidate, its speaker system is quite good if not playing at the very low volumes. Actually, playing it at the volume equal to an acoustic piano, it is very good!
You should always compare at least to one more instrument, in order to get an impression what variety exists on the market. In your situation I would recommend to do compare with a Yamaha CLP-440, then. I say this, because personal taste is so different, that judging only based on our recommendations would just not be what you should do, if going to spend so much money!
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2088382 - 05/25/13 01:15 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
I've tried yamaha and no, the keys are too heavy. I've found a dealer where I can test the kawai and other keyboards. It's a bit far but I'll be able to make a proper comparaison.
Someone told me that kawai need regular maintenance, and that the support is less reactive than roland or yamaha. Do they really need more maintenance than roland or yamaha?

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#2088390 - 05/25/13 01:57 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3118
Loc: Northern England.
I wonder if having experienced software pianos, you`ll be happy going back to the Digital? My digital has a sound like no other, and is irreplaceable for certain stuff. But bring on the software pianos! . . . sometimes you play them, and wonder. Then you play `em back and know!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2089662 - 05/27/13 01:29 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
So, after visiting this new dealer, and testing various alternative (and some acoustic too for the fun smile ) I'll settle for a floor model for less than 2000€. I think my main fear about a DP is that, unlike software, there will be no update and can quickly become obsolete. Well, I'll see what happens.

Thanks you everyone for your replies.

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#2089693 - 05/27/13 03:15 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
I don't think DP's get "obsolete" that fast in the usual sense of the word. Well, they do age but much more slowly than you probably think. The sound technology probably gets better every couple years but the key action evolves rather slowly.

All in all, I'm sure the HP-505 would serve you well for many years, but in the end it's your call. smile
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2091418 - 05/29/13 01:47 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
I'm replacing my Roland HP-201 with a Roland Hp-505.

To be honest I don't think that the downsides as described by Marco M will bother me much.
The HP-201 only has 4 buttons!! All sounds and other settings are changed with a button+key combination. On the HP-201 I only had access to all the extra (general midi) sounds through my PC. But I don't care much for them. I also don't expect it to store different settings for every sound, it's not a synthesizer.


Edited by babama (05/29/13 01:49 PM)

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#2092669 - 05/31/13 05:56 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
Got it today! First impressions are excellent.
I will soon post a recording of the same piece recorded with exactly the same equipment to compare the sound of the HP-201 and HP-505.

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#2092674 - 05/31/13 06:49 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 445
Loc: Europe
Congratulations, and wellcome to the club wink
Would you have the chance to record with 2 microphones (stereo) as well? While recordings of the line out are more easy available, the recording of the speaker system might be of interest for others to hear as well. Unfortunately I don´t have the possibility to install my mics, mixer and multitrack recorder in our living room to do so, as the new flat is small I have all the stuff packed and stored elsewhere until living again in a country where bigger flats incl. hobby rooms are available again for a reasonable price.

My recommendations to get quickly started:
place the 505 at least 15 cm away from the wall
Key touch = H1
ambience = 3
brilliance = 7
if demanding Key Touch = H2, then brilliance = 10
if having to place it close to the wall, then brilliance = 10
for headphone playing (with my headphones) I lower the brilliance to = -2

I found these resonance settings to be nice ones:
damper = 5
strings = 7
soundboard = 10
cabinet = 10

Have fun!!!!


Edited by Marco M (05/31/13 06:50 AM)
Edit Reason: type mismatches corrected
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2092752 - 05/31/13 09:53 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
Thanks for your tips. I'm afraid I don't have enough space to place the HP-505 15 cm from the wall. I also don't have mics to make a recording.

I did record the same piece (using a midi file played by me), with the exact same hardware and software.

I used the (noisy) headphones output on both the HP-201 and HP-505. I used the 'power on' first piano sound with no changes on both the HP-201 and HP-505 (so no brilliance in either case).

The 505 recording is slightly less "muddy" but it all sounds very similar, which is a bit of a disappointment. Should I use the line-out on the back by the way?
To avoid any cables I guess next time I could make a recording using the HP-505's feature to record it in WAV on a USB stick.

HP-201
https://www.box.com/s/bbc05b19773efc80cb06
HP-505
https://www.box.com/s/lweud97it1q0i811su1a


Edited by babama (05/31/13 10:02 AM)

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#2092786 - 05/31/13 10:43 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
They do sound similar, yes. The HP 201 is pre-SN piano, isn't it? The sound is nice - rounded warm. Using good headphones, you can hear that the SN piano is more detailed & richer in its harmonic content.....but really there is not a great deal of difference with this example.

Using line/aux out should give an ideal level for recording.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2092793 - 05/31/13 10:52 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
Yes the HP-201 is pre-SN. But as you can hear, while the HP-505 has better quality, the "core" piano sound is still very similar.
The HP-505 does sound a lot better when playing over its speakers compared to the HP-201. Also the keyboard is an improvement.

Btw, brilliance on 10 is way too high IMO, close to the wall or not.

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#2092795 - 05/31/13 10:55 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: toddy]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: toddy
Using line/aux out should give an ideal level for recording.


Using the record audio to USB feature is still better I guess, because it avoids cables altogether.


Edited by babama (05/31/13 10:55 AM)

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#2092803 - 05/31/13 11:05 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Btw, brilliance on 10 is way too high IMO, close to the wall or not.


Oh yes - I'd never have the setting open like that. It shows up the highly metallic sound of the duplex (& other overtones?) too much, giving a less realistic representation, IMO. Usually, the default zero setting is about right, I think.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2092811 - 05/31/13 11:23 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: babama]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: babama
Originally Posted By: toddy
Using line/aux out should give an ideal level for recording.


Using the record audio to USB feature is still better I guess, because it avoids cables altogether.


And so I did. I exported the Cubase project file to a standard midi file (*.mid), copied it to USB stick and selected the midi file to be recorded to audio on the HP-505. The HP-505 made a nice clean WAV file on the USB stick. I had to normalize the WAV file on my PC to increase volume. My ears can barely detect any difference with the recording that I made using the headphones output. The only thing I'm sure of is that the USB recording is "cleaner" in the bass.

All in all, using the audio to USB feature on the instrument itself would seem the best way to make direct audio recordings of the HP-505.

So if anyone's interested:

HP-201
https://www.box.com/s/bbc05b19773efc80cb06
HP-505 (headphones output)
https://www.box.com/s/lweud97it1q0i811su1a
HP-505 (audio to USB stick)
https://www.box.com/s/mzkc70goevflq51ogvwo


Edited by babama (05/31/13 11:31 AM)

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#2092872 - 05/31/13 12:44 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 445
Loc: Europe
My brilliance recommendations depend, as said, on the Key Touch setting in use.
For the Key Touch at its neutral, default parameter, I neither wouldn´t rise the brilliance, for the exactly same reasons toddy pointed out. But if using a less sensitive Key Touch (H1 or even H2), the keys feel more heavy and less affecting dynamics (volume) and timbre changes, then I balance for the allover loss of overtones by increasing the brilliance.

In my experience the neutral Key Touch setting reflects a perfect (incredible expensive) grand piano. But it is hard for a beginner to control such high key sensitivity well. A heavier key is easier to control, and also is closer to the majority of acoustic pianos out there. There are only a few people having a 60.000 EUR (and up) grand, but much more having an acoustic for a price below 10.000 EUR. Especially uprights, which many know from their teachers studios, usually feature heavier keys, and the H1 or even H2 setting are in my opinion then better suited to emulate those instrument´s feel. Actually, because of the much notable cut of overtones at H2, I nowadays settle on the compromise level H1 for piano playing, use H2 for training finger force, and don´t use the neutral Key Touch setting.

By the way, the H1 is also the one which by default becomes activated, if activating the Key Touch button on the front panel, and the brilliance is = 5 by default for activating the Brilliance button on the front panel, which according to my observations both really makes much sense. If hitting the Key Touch button, right away hit the Brilliance button as well, and that´s it. You can change this behaviour and save it by the "backup" function. But the factory defaults indeed seem to be quite well chosen.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#2092970 - 05/31/13 03:38 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
The difference between hp201 and hp505 is interesting. Velocity layers are not noticeable in the 505, and harmonic content is better. But they are equally bad with looping samples. How old is the 201?

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#2092990 - 05/31/13 04:24 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
Hookxs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: boisso
The difference between hp201 and hp505 is interesting. Velocity layers are not noticeable in the 505, and harmonic content is better. But they are equally bad with looping samples. How old is the 201?


As a matter of fact, 505 is not looped.

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#2093037 - 05/31/13 06:08 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Marco M said

My brilliance recommendations depend, as said, on the Key Touch setting in use.
For the Key Touch at its neutral, default parameter, I neither wouldn´t rise the brilliance


Yes, of course, I see what you're saying.

Boisso said

The difference between hp201 and hp505 is interesting. Velocity layers are not noticeable in the 505, and harmonic content is better. But they are equally bad with looping samples. How old is the 201?

That's strange because I've never heard any looping effects at all on my HP302 - I've listened carefully to the decay phases and they seem loop free and fairly lively in terms of continuous interaction of the strings...ie, quite piano-like.


Edited by toddy (05/31/13 06:08 PM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2093197 - 06/01/13 05:02 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
I got the HP-201 in 2008. I believe the model was introduced in 2007. I got it for 1300 € back then and recently decided to replace it because it had some annoying little defects and the repair costs were quite high. I got 400 € discount on the HP-505 for the HP-201. They're going to fix it and sell it in their store as a second hand.
The biggest improvement of the HP-505 over the HP-201 is most definitely its speaker system.

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#2093209 - 06/01/13 06:49 AM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
boisso Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 11
Looping was not a good term, it uses complex processing to avoid using full length sample, but the decay still fell artificial to me.

Originally Posted By: babama

The biggest improvement of the HP-505 over the HP-201 is most definitely its speaker system.


I suppose the difference is similar to the one between 503 and 505.

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#2188195 - 11/25/13 05:21 PM Re: Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ... [Re: boisso]
khopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/13
Posts: 37
Loc: Uruguay
babama
Could you please share the audio files again.
Thank you
_________________________
Current: Kawai CL36, KRK6400
Previous: Casio PX-100, Upright AP

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