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#2088889 - 05/25/13 10:38 PM Yamaha and Bosendorfer
pianocritic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 68
Loc: Midwest
I played a Yamaha c7x today and the action is as smooth as silk. Does anyone think that the new x series Yamaha was influenced by Bosendorfer.
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#2088892 - 05/25/13 10:45 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
I doubt it. Yamaha uses their own actions, while Bösendorfer uses Renner. If one were to change actions, I think it might be Bösendorfer.
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#2088910 - 05/25/13 11:00 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
pianocritic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 68
Loc: Midwest
Something has changed. I have a c7 and the new c7x feels smoother. The c7 is great but the c7x is really, really good.
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Piano Critic-A player and listener. Musician-Bachelors and Masters in Music. Retired from Professional life and just enjoying Music.

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#2088944 - 05/25/13 11:41 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21673
Loc: Oakland
Maybe that reflects the condition of the action of your C7. They need service every once in a while.
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#2089000 - 05/26/13 03:48 AM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
I think the action is actually exactly the same. What's changed are the hammers, strings, soundboard that allowed for a different feel and level of control. The action in C-series Yamaha has always been extremely good. The piano is a very integral thing, and a change in the hammers could make you feel the action has changed but in fact it hasn't.

As hyped by Yamaha the CX series is heavily influenced by the CFX concert grand, which is apparent, but just how much is the CFX concert grand influenced by Boesendorfer we will never know. These are not the sort of thing that Yamaha would reveal. However, why is it that Boesendorfer's bass bridge have holes in them and now suddenly the CFX has them too? Why is it that Boesendorfer uses open pin block design and suddenly the CFX has an open pin block design? Lots of other changes that points to a huge influence from Boesendorfer but perhaps those are just fine tuning and the major change is through the many years of Yamaha R&D they did after the launch of the CFIIIS in 1991 till the launch of the CFX in 2010. We will never know unless we get somebody from Boesendorfer to tell us.
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#2089064 - 05/26/13 08:30 AM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
Joe Ravita Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Pittsburgh Pa
We have had several clients state the same impressions as pianocritic after playing CX models. In discussion with our Yamaha rep this is directly related to the change to the hammers and strings.
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#2089104 - 05/26/13 10:20 AM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2730
Loc: western Wisconsin
I think any "trickle down" effect to the C_X may have come from the development of their CF pianos. At least, that's what was my impression after speaking with some company reps a few weeks ago. Playing the C_X pianos at NAMM immediately after the Bosendorfers, I don't really find a corporate resemblance in action "feel" or sound at all. That's not meant to sound negative, by the way. I think Yamaha actions are great.
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#2089132 - 05/26/13 11:11 AM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2194
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
It is amazing what a difference making the hammers lighter, softer and integrating that into how the action is regulated will produce in tone and touch. It is much of what people like about old well preserved Steinways. Bosendorfers have always had hammers lighter than most other makes. Kawai has been trending this way for over a decade.

Of course it might have helped things that I wrote book about the significance of hammer weight to piano tone and touch titled The Educated Piano back in the late 1980's.
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In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2089232 - 05/26/13 02:25 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
pianocritic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 68
Loc: Midwest
I do have my piano serviced often and the action is superb but I just felt a difference in the cx. Interesting that the hammers made that difference. It just seemed smoother to me in a very positive way. I have not played a bosendorfer for a few years and my memory of the action has dwindled. I guess I was just looking for a reason for the difference in feel. Thanks for all of your comments. That does clear it up a little in my mind.
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Piano Critic-A player and listener. Musician-Bachelors and Masters in Music. Retired from Professional life and just enjoying Music.

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#2089243 - 05/26/13 02:41 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
Carbonblob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 334
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca.
I really can't comment with any authority but I when searching for my piano, I wanted a C3. The store had the new CX3 and also carried Bosendorfer. I thought the touch was very near the same but gave the edge to the Bosendorfer. Again, I'm not an expert by any stretch but they both felt great. Almost every other brand I tried felt as if more effort was involved. Even from the CX3 to the C3. The new Kawai GX series has taken a page from their concert Shigeru pianos. They lengthened the keys and did some other things to recreate the concert feel. I would be curious what your opinion is when you get a chance to play one (I don't think they're out there in numbers yet)....blob
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#2089252 - 05/26/13 02:52 PM Re: Yamaha and Bosendorfer [Re: pianocritic]
pianocritic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 68
Loc: Midwest
I have not played a new Kawai for awhile but I did prefer the Yamaha to the Kawai when I purchased my piano a few years ago. The Kawai did not seem to be balanced to me and the repetition rate of the Kawai did not seem as good as well. That was just my opinion but a professor of music friend commented the same thing to me in a conversation we had about actions on pianos. By the way he has an older steinway.
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