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A very nice looking small grand with the Zimmerman name just came available for 5500.00. Does anyone have an opinion on these. It was purchased new in around 1984. I spoke with the owner who said they had purchased it for their daughter to take lessons but she lost interest and it hasn't been used much over the years.

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...ards-Baby-Grand-Piano-W0QQAdIdZ488073210

Thanks

Wilf

It was made in communist east Germany.

Which "early eighties?"

This might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_(piano)

The piano was made in the 1980's. I understand the company goes back to the 1880's. Someone said it was made in "communist east Germany" I don't think people necessarily endorse the politics of certain other countries where pianos are manufactured. My question is whether or not someone can tell me if this is a good product or not.

Poorest quality all around.

I especially like the "German made"

If you would have said this in previous GDR [communist East Germany] you would have gotten instant jail.

Everything was called "Socialist Republic" - nothing "German"

Here it was mercilessly exploited by dealers for decades.

How about going to North Korea trying your luck with "Korean" there....

Norbert

Promise me you will not buy this piano. As a young player, I was fortunate enough to land a solo piano gig at a unique restaurant/hotel in tyngsborough Massachusetts. The local owners wanted to recreate a European style retreat with a French restaurant even hiring native French waiters. It was on a horse farm and it was beautiful- except for the pianos. Yes there were two of them, both zimmermans. The owners, I think, thought they were getting high quality German pianos. The got German pianos for sure but not the high quality part. These pianos- a grand and an upright- were without question the WORST pianos I have played in my life. I honestly thought these things were going to collapse in my lap every night. I was afraid t o use the pedals because I thought they would snap. And of course the sound was weak and would never stay in tune. I will never forget those zimmermans. please walk away!

Hey Wilf, slaves don't do precision work. Ever had a Russian watch?

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I had no idea there would be such a reaction. I thought that if the company had a history of over 100 years that would mean they would still be capable of producing quality regardless of government.

If I am not mistaken, I understand that there are quite a few Chinese brands that have gained respect and yet very few people in this part of the world would endorse their governing philosophies.

I have looked at quite a variety of makes and I am hoping to not end up making a poor decision. The trouble is, lots of the pianos "appear" to be high quality. It is hard to know what to do when you are new to the quest to find the best value in a piano.

I hope you don't mind me bringing these possibilities to the forum. My price range may make it impossible for me to find a quality fit.

I had posted earlier about considering a 6' Vose and Sons that is for sale for a really good price. Owner thinks it may be between 40-50 years old. Opinions please?

Wilf,

One of the best things you could do is check out "A&D Piano Buyer" by Larry Fine. The free online version is available here:

http://www.pianobuyer.com/

I recommend purchasing the print version as it is just easier for page flipping and doing research.

Don't trust that a 100 year old name still comes from a company which is still in business or that the new pianos can be compared to the original quality of the company. There are two American companies which built very fine pianos. They are Chickering and Knabe. The names still exist on fallboards but the new instruments have nothing to do with the originals and you can't make a judgement by the name alone. This is where the book is helpful. It will give a brief history of a "name" and then indicate what company is using the name on new instruments. These pianos are referred to as "Stencils."

That is why I asked my very first question in this thread. The seller did not indicate that it was a new instrument when they purchased it in the mid-80's. If it had been a fully rebuilt and original Zimmermann from the nineteenth century, it could be a fine piano. As others have said, the piano in the ad would not be a good choice.

Wilf,

Here is a quote from Roberts Piano, a British piano dealer. It says it all:

Zimmerman pianos made prior to 1940 are of good quality and restore very well. Later baby grands and uprights tend to be of lower to medium quality, the common baby grands often having a heavy and uneven action. However as of 1992, they have been taken over by Bechstein, who produce a fine piano with the Zimmerman name.

Bottom line: Made 1888-1939 - consider it.
Made 1940-1992 - forget it.
Made 1993 onwards - consider it.

With very rare exceptions, "company" and "government" were more or less synonymous in the Iron Curtain countries, as these countries nationalized nearly all companies. Quality suffered terribly.

The only products that eastern European countries made with anything like the quality of Western competitors were armaments, provided they didn't have a lot of electronics.

The situation in China is dramatically different, as most of its economy is now in private hands.

Andy

You may be right GG but you`ll have to be prepared to defend all those beautifully crafted, precision made Kimballs, Wurlitzers and Aeolians from the post-war period against the ghastly Bluthners thrown together by slaves at the same time.

Having said that, I remember being sent to try out a Zimmermann upright (probably around `85 or `86) I reported back that it was nearly as bad as a Samick.

J-C.

Good product? One has to define the word good. I sold Zimmerman back inthe 80's. i have never had a complaint that they didn't play properly with professional and comprehensive or that they failed to hold a tune like any piano of integrity. I sold them to ordinary people who had no great talent, but aspired to do better with their abilities. In that way the piano served the buyer well. I service one in a church which since it has a stable humidity, and twice yearly service continues to hold tune nicely. Since the action of this one is regulated well, by myself, it really plays nicely and pleases everyone in this sweet little church. I just bought one -- a mahogany with chipoendale legs. Moving it I was reminded it has very substantial construction. It is still pretty heavy. Some veneer has split off the bottom of the pedal lyre, but we can fix that. The rest is beautiful and the pins are tight. Without comprehensive service by a top tier technician who knows what he is doing, it will be like any other neglected piano -- a half-baked instrument.

Hey, this is what I like about Piano World... one man's trash is another man's treasure!

I played an older Zimmerman upright at a dealer and it sounded and played okay to me; the cabinet looked pretty nice too.

OTOH, beauty (and quality) is in the eye of the beholder...

Rick

Since you seem opposed of taking a hint what the products were like in previous communist countries related to all their stuff including cars, furniture, instruments etc, I would suggest you buy the piano.

The come back later and ask how we can help with your troubles.

Guaranteed to have some fun since the East Germans took great care building pianos specifically for the extremely dry climate of Alberta....

Norbert

One piano can be bad from a business judgement oriented toward profit and the bottom line in a financial statement. Yet at the same time the same piano may play well, sounds decent and advances the life of the real value -- the human being. In that respect it is good. Another consideration is a piano that is highly collectable -- one fit for a museum would be good for historical or aesthetic admiration but bad for advancing human talents in that it no longer can be tuned or played properly. We should split these nuances as we judge.

Happy Birthday Norbert !!!

Thank you very much - golden 65!!

Competitors: don't start dancing anticipating early retirement...

Norbert

norbert, do you suggest that the zimmermann of the postwar, pre-wall-fall period could be construed as the 'Trabi' of pianos?