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Hello Maxim,
This is also where CA can be of advantage... if the block is cracked, but not too badly cracked. It is. Joe, I wanted to ask you what you think of the application of the adhesive in such cases, if in it's based will a naphtha. For example to preparing a liquid PVA mix with a naphtha 1:2? Here is a link to a short article about CA: http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/w...anoacrylate-everything-you-need-to-know/ Turners and luthiers fill cracks and small voids in raw wood by filling them with sanding dust, then dropping CA into the powder to form a solid plug. Thin versions will seep into even the smallest of fractures. Because it is moisture activated, it will work on wet wood, green wood, and pressure treated wood.Another evidence of the effectiveness of the СA. A gluing pieces of wood are not in doubt. However, there is also a metal pin.
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This is not modest, but Max never has the coils precariously close to the plate. Because, to use "a sledgehammer to a treatment" is not our method. A sledgehammer can save a lump sum, but a pinblok is crying... This is interesting! Over here, it is not unusual to tap (hammer gently) a loose pin. Sometimes, this is done too often and the coil could come precariously close to the plate. "Because, to use "a sledgehammer to a treatment" is not our method." Are you saying that this is not Maxim's method? Or, are you saying that tapping the pins is considered disreputable by most tuners where you are? Thanks, -Joe
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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This is not modest, but Max never has the coils precariously close to the plate. Because, to use "a sledgehammer to a treatment" is not our method. A sledgehammer can save a lump sum, but a pinblok is crying... Are you saying that this is not Maxim's method? Or, are you saying that tapping the pins is considered disreputable by most tuners where you are? Hi,Joe. A hammering is a common practice of fix a pin. In the Russian transcription A tap verbiles."Добивание вербилÑ". I originally denied the method because there were negative effects for me. I had to fix it. Max denied it and was looking for an alternative. He found a corrugated cardboard. Alternative or misleading?Time will judge it
Last edited by Maximillyan; 05/25/13 02:25 PM.
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I understand. You were finding too many coils close to the plate and wanted an alternative? So, you devised the cardboard shim. Very good!
As we say over here, "You were thinking outside of the box."
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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I understand. You were finding too many coils close to the plate and wanted an alternative? So, you devised the cardboard shim. Very good!
As we say over here, "You were thinking outside of the box." We say Sees the root "Зрить в корень"
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Reobably all those people that does not want to pay or cannot find a tuner (or many wannabees or self taught) for their pîano are killing their pin blocks (as are doing many real piano tuners probably without noticing, by using sanding motion with their tuning market)
A decent piano pinblock, manipulated by a good tuner should allow tuning even even 80 years later.
Hammering works because it allow the very small supplement of torque that allow to do again a normal pin setting process. very little is necessary you dont need the full torque to realise pin setting simply it is of course more easy and more secure when the torque is not just on a small few mm part of the tuning pin to begin with, but along the tuning, the torque raise as more parts of the pin are contacting firmly a roughened surface in the hole.
the carboard may work due to the rosin like agent within the cardboard, wood shims where and are a standard method, but the main problem is they dont offer a fiber orientation suiteable for tuning.
Usually a correctly tuned piano will move eventually at string's level,due to reactions to seasonal changes. Most of the time if I hear a drift on an unison mean's I find a string that RAISED, not the opposite.
Guess why?
Last edited by Olek; 05/26/13 04:46 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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THey state CA is used by violin makers or piano tuners, but I have my doubts about how that glue is holding when submitted to vibrations, If not that should be a good help to secure unglued ribs, repair soundboard cracks, assuming a correct "charge" (wood or other material dust to thicken the glue)
In my case I hate how wood glued with CA suddenly get unglued, without much possibilities to glue back.
But indeed there may certainly be some qualities that do the job, as it seem to be used on wood lathes.
Resistance to micro vibrations and wood motion (hygrometry) is really the question in the end.
For tuning I did not find yet a piano I could not tune with normal techniques or a light tapping (one only a very old wooden framed piano)
I question the grip, as the colleague who use it tells me the pin is stopped but have no more friction, so it cannot be manipulated the same as with normal fine tuning (tensionning the front segment and the pin) If that process is not made availeable the tuning precision must stay too low.
the glue collar in the wood is certainly not rough but smooth.
Last edited by Olek; 05/26/13 07:50 AM.
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THey satet CA is used by violin makers or piano tuners Violin makers using CA glue, for what??? They use warm glue (Hautleim) like we do to glue the hammers and other parts. Fish glue is good too, but have a bad smell.
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Yes but those are US based documentation, widely available with the Internet, Ca at every meal from early morning to late evening.
Woodworking in USA seem to make a huge use of CA, I question if they have some qualities that are unavailable to us (I doubt of that) or if this is simply that a glue that can be used in a pinch, and without pressing ,get the suffrage for that reason.
I have a grand action cradle in wood that can be folded, that I bought from Flugelbauer. One part serving to fold was broken during the transportation, he said me to glue it back with CA, implying the stack ws glued with similar glue, It seem to be holding fine, so I wonder.
I know that one reputed Forte and historical instruments I know use some ca to tighten a loose bridge pin (occasionally and on very low torque setups)
I cannot imagine violin maker using CA, but who knows ..
That said in France I have seen the result of some overenthusiastic "violin maker" (certainly a wannabee but with enough "mirror ans smokes" to be credible by other mirror and smoke guys) that take a perfectly nice old violin, put in in a bah of polyurethane lacquer, bore a long hole in the handle so "the tone can escapes" and insert colored points on the handle so the child find the note location easily.
Perfectly playable violin turned in a piece of plastic for 400€ (price for friends).
When credibility goes together with mystics, we live a wonderful world. I say that knowledgeable persons should be more audible, as any empty place in knowledge will be filled soon with tons of BS.
Last edited by Olek; 05/26/13 07:59 AM.
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the carboard may work due to the rosin like agent within the cardboard, wood shims where and are a standard method, but the main problem is they dont offer a fiber orientation suite able for tuning.
Isaac I do not understood the course of your thought. Why do you compare a cardboard shim as rosin? Yes, indeed, with a certain degree of conditionality can be assumed that 5-7% of the starch ( corrugated cardboard) in the process of screwing in act like resin. The uneven the location of of cardboard fibers the entire area of ​​the hole at the moment of screwing a pin of the method are costs of.
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I believe the carboard contains some glue or a product that add friction, if not a simple carboard would be efficient and it is not.
Also may be the corrugated carboard can be impreganted with diluted rosin (colophony) and then dried before use.
Last edited by Olek; 05/26/13 11:03 AM.
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Also may be the corrugated carboard can be impreganted with diluted rosin (colophony) and then dried before use.
If the composition of corrugated cardboard have colophony it's (+) to use as a shim.
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I said you can add colophony
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Isaac,
If we are going to discuss CA glue methods, there is an additional method that should be included.
The following is not my invention. It is a method I read about that was developed by someone else. However, it has proven very effective. It is a method I use in the field... when working on site.
That method is to use both CA glue and Titebond glue.
The CA sets quickly and i even accelerated by the Titebond. But, the Titebond is there for strength. Apply CA to one surface and Titebond to the other. The client then has an immediately usable piano. But, the repair will reach maximum strength the next day when the Titebond cures.
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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I believe the carboard contains some glue or a product that add friction, if not a simple carboard would be efficient and it is not.
Also may be the corrugated carboard can be impreganted with diluted rosin (colophony) and then dried before use.
Cardboard is made of paper. Paper is wood fiber and pulp. So strictly speaking shimming with cardboard = shimming with wood.
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Well those products have some usefulness but I am overwhelmed by the CA, , the US techs think CA for anything that should be repaired, less time spend, more money made...
That CA+ white glue tip is useful indeed.
But the "what if I use jelly beam to lubricate the centers" thing is what make younger techs not even aware of standard long used methods (where the repair is supposed to hold until the part is changed) Also , a glued part is supposed to be unglued some day, and repaired (for instance ivories)
I cannot get along with the "global CA" mentality, if you see what I mean.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Well those products have some usefulness but I am overwhelmed by the CA, , the US techs think CA for anything that should be repaired, less time spend, more money made...
That CA+ white glue tip is useful indeed.
But the "what if I use jelly beam to lubricate the centers" thing is what make younger techs not even aware of standard long used methods (where the repair is supposed to hold until the part is changed) Also , a glued part is supposed to be unglued some day, and repaired (for instance ivories)
I cannot get along with the "global CA" mentality, if you see what I mean. Isaac, Of course, you have to do what you think is best. We all do. Btw, it's CA and yellow glue.
Last edited by daniokeeper; 05/26/13 01:27 PM.
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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I said you can add colophony Sorry, I did not understood, Isaac. If you add the colophony, that is to rub it's a pin during installation. Perhaps it will add friction. However, at the time of hammering or screwing it would be damaging moment. It is my opinion. Or am I wrong?
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That method is to use both CA glue and Titebond glue.
Hi,Joe. The use of the mix of the two glues?
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