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#2092488 - 05/30/13 10:15 PM Please comment on my hand position!
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
I am self-learning piano. So I hope someone can comment if my hand position is right or wrong so that I can improve. Thank you very much.

Other critical comments on other aspects of this video would be welcome smile



Edited by mattroilanh_tt (05/30/13 10:16 PM)
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#2092492 - 05/30/13 10:20 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
The angle only allows us to see a few things. What I did notice on the first take is that your right wrist bounces quite a bit, and when it's down, it's too low. I'll watch a few more times and let some things I think I saw simmer before I comment further.

If you can pan out/pull back a bit so we can see your elbows, and also take a little higher angle so we can see the tops of your wrists (usually a 30-45 degree angle is good), we may be able to get more specific. smile
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#2092495 - 05/30/13 10:29 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I agree on the wrist going a bit too low, which then causes you to raise your fingers up high and that results in making your 8th notes uneven. I don't mind the bounciness of your wrist so much, just think more of playing from where the key rests into the keybed rather than lifting a finger up to "strike" the key from above.

Other than that, I think the curve of your fingers is OK, perhaps a bit too curved, but the style of music you are playing it's more appropriate. Try to relax all non-playing fingers. In order to do this when you have fast-moving notes is you slow it waaay down so that you can build in that relaxation in between playing the notes. Then you gradually increase the speed while maintaining the relaxation.
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#2092499 - 05/30/13 10:39 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
This is something I have been focusing on, myself. I am trying to train myself to press keys from the resting position down instead of hammering on the keys as you do here. I haven't taken any video since my concerted efforts began, but I feel like I am doing better. Is this caused by you trying to play loudly? Is your keyboard weighted? Maybe you wouldn't hammer on the keys so much if it actually affected the volume.
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#2092517 - 05/30/13 11:24 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
Thank you very much. I will try to not raise my fingers too high (When I first practice piano, other person told me that I should strengthen my fingers. It's the reason I try to play as loud and clear as I can.)

Quote:
I agree on the wrist going a bit too low.


Do you know how to correct this. Should I raise or lower the height of my chair? Do you have any special "homework" to fix it?

Quote:
If you can pan out/pull back a bit so we can see your elbows, and also take a little higher angle so we can see the tops of your wrists (usually a 30-45 degree angle is good), we may be able to get more specific. smile


I will record and upload other video when I comeback home.


Edited by mattroilanh_tt (05/30/13 11:33 PM)
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#2092524 - 05/30/13 11:37 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Quote:
(When I first practice piano, other person told me that I should strengthen my fingers. It's the reason I try to play as loud and clear as I can.)

No need.. if you're an adult, you use your hands enough as it is. The fingers are plenty strong for pressing down a one-ounce(?) block of wood. wink

Quote:
Do you know how to correct this. Should I raise or lower the height of my chair? Do you have any special "homework" to fix it?

One of the reasons I asked for the different camera angle. Trying to recall your video, I don't believe the angle of your forearm indicated a significant need to adjust the seat height. You just need to focus intently on keeping your wrist unbroken, particularly in the "down" direction. Sometimes, you can place your other hand underneath the wrist and provide some counter-pressure to remind yourself not to drop the wrist and create such a harsh angle. Another person/teacher is great for this.
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#2092527 - 05/30/13 11:38 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3155
Loc: Maine
I think "strengthening the fingers" is a misnomer. What makes more sense to me is that one needs to learn coordination with the fingers, to move them together and also independently as one wills.
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#2092530 - 05/30/13 11:44 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
Quote:
Sometimes, you can place your other hand underneath the wrist and provide some counter-pressure to remind yourself not to drop the wrist and create such a harsh angle. Another person/teacher is great for this.


Thank you. I find this "trick" is helpful.
_________________________
Current Work:
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  • Methode Rose
  • Suzuki Piano School Volume 1 & 2

Start Date: 11/01/2013

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#2092704 - 05/31/13 08:27 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Quote:
Sometimes, you can place your other hand underneath the wrist and provide some counter-pressure to remind yourself not to drop the wrist and create such a harsh angle. Another person/teacher is great for this.


Thank you. I find this "trick" is helpful.
I agree...it's not so much the seating height as is it the hand being raised up above the wrist to lift the fingers. That's really at the heart of the issue.
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#2092729 - 05/31/13 09:17 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
Thank you very much. I find a way to fix my wrist. I paste a pressure sensitive tape on the front of the wrist, so that it will not move too much.
_________________________
Current Work:
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  • Methode Rose
  • Suzuki Piano School Volume 1 & 2

Start Date: 11/01/2013

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#2092734 - 05/31/13 09:30 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Thank you very much. I find a way to fix my wrist. I paste a pressure sensitive tape on the front of the wrist, so that it will not move too much.
The wrist should remain flexible, and it's not so much the wrist that is the issue but you lifting your fingers up. Fix the finger issue and there won't be a wrist problem. I'm afraid you may end up with stiff wrists this way and that is another problem.
_________________________
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#2092767 - 05/31/13 10:07 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: Morodiene]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Thank you very much. I find a way to fix my wrist. I paste a pressure sensitive tape on the front of the wrist, so that it will not move too much.
The wrist should remain flexible, and it's not so much the wrist that is the issue but you lifting your fingers up. Fix the finger issue and there won't be a wrist problem. I'm afraid you may end up with stiff wrists this way and that is another problem.


Do you know how to practice to fix my fingers?
_________________________
Current Work:
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  • Methode Rose
  • Suzuki Piano School Volume 1 & 2

Start Date: 11/01/2013

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#2092779 - 05/31/13 10:31 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Thank you very much. I find a way to fix my wrist. I paste a pressure sensitive tape on the front of the wrist, so that it will not move too much.
The wrist should remain flexible, and it's not so much the wrist that is the issue but you lifting your fingers up. Fix the finger issue and there won't be a wrist problem. I'm afraid you may end up with stiff wrists this way and that is another problem.


Do you know how to practice to fix my fingers?
Yes, but it is quite difficult to explain on a forum, and I don't really have time to make a video of it. Try resting your fingers lightly on the keys, and press down a note without lifting up before hand.
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#2092787 - 05/31/13 10:46 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: Morodiene]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5281
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
Thank you very much. I find a way to fix my wrist. I paste a pressure sensitive tape on the front of the wrist, so that it will not move too much.
The wrist should remain flexible, and it's not so much the wrist that is the issue but you lifting your fingers up. Fix the finger issue and there won't be a wrist problem. I'm afraid you may end up with stiff wrists this way and that is another problem.


Do you know how to practice to fix my fingers?
Yes, but it is quite difficult to explain on a forum, and I don't really have time to make a video of it. Try resting your fingers lightly on the keys, and press down a note without lifting up before hand.

I agree with Morodiene that this one is very difficult to explain in words. I'm concerned that this wording will lead you to try to "instantly accelerate" your finger in the downward direction. There still has to be a preparatory motion to play a note, so "up" is still required, but not quite in the way you might interpret "up". I think what Morodiene is getting at is that you can't "hold" all your fingers in the air (tension) while playing individual notes.

So, what I see is this: it's not the finger that's playing the note -- it's the other fingers that are the problem. To correct it we would typically talk about using the entire hand/arm, not isolating fingers, and not stopping certain motions, but like Morodiene said, to describe it fully here is not easy because it's very easy to misinterpret words.
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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2092850 - 05/31/13 12:17 PM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Is it possible you could take lessons with a good teacher? This is really something that is best addressed in person by someone who can immediately respond to what you're doing and correct you as you go.
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private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2093241 - 06/01/13 09:01 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: Morodiene]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Is it possible you could take lessons with a good teacher? This is really something that is best addressed in person by someone who can immediately respond to what you're doing and correct you as you go.


I know having a teacher is the best. But I have a plan to move to another city in the near future (as soon as I find a suitable job in that city). I need to save money for this plan. And I think having a teacher for a short time then changing to other teacher is not good.

And here is my other video. I have some warm-up exercises before playing the piece. Hope this time has better view.

_________________________
Current Work:
  • Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course Level 1
  • Methode Rose
  • Suzuki Piano School Volume 1 & 2

Start Date: 11/01/2013

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#2093245 - 06/01/13 09:10 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11558
Loc: Canada
What felt more comfortable - what you were doing before or what you are doing now? I've avoided commenting because I am a student myself and not an expert, and because comments can mess people up even further. The rule of thumb I was taught is that if it's comfortable and makes the right sound, then it is probably going in the right direction. Tbh, I felt better with what I saw in the first video than the second. Personally I'm trying to get more motion into my arms, hands and wrists, allowing the wrists to feather what's happening, and allowing the arms as a whole to be involved. That's what I think (?) I am seeing more of in the first video.

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#2093248 - 06/01/13 09:16 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
mattroilanh_tt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 66
I feel more comfortable in the first video >"< The second video I try to keep my wrist high. But maybe I feel comfortable just because I got used to this, not because it is the right position >"<
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Current Work:
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  • Methode Rose
  • Suzuki Piano School Volume 1 & 2

Start Date: 11/01/2013

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#2093253 - 06/01/13 09:28 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11422
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: mattroilanh_tt
I feel more comfortable in the first video >"< The second video I try to keep my wrist high. But maybe I feel comfortable just because I got used to this, not because it is the right position >"<
This is exactly right...it may be awkward at first. I won't have time to check out the video as I'm about to move myself! So I should be packing and not here LOL. Anyways, do the best that you can for now, and please do find a teacher when you move. Keystring is right that sometimes advice like this can do more harm than good.
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#2093270 - 06/01/13 10:15 AM Re: Please comment on my hand position! [Re: mattroilanh_tt]
PaperClip Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 505
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Hmm, if I would play like that, my teacher would say to me: you are not connecting the notes together. You play like child. All the notes you play are on their own. Obviously I've heard that comment a lot. -.- So I might not the right person to advise you, heh. wink

Your thumb goes up and down by your third joint, which make the sound a bit numb and harsh. Your thumb should be moving a bit sideways by rotating your second joint and a bit of your thirst joint while letting it fall.

When moving the thumb (right hand) that way, the sound will be a much softer, elegant. If your moving your wrist not up and down, but more sideways, then you are connecting the notes. So when playing the right thumb your wrist should be more to inside. Then move your wrist more to the outside, when playing the notes going up (still right hand). So the sound of the notes are connected by the movement of your wrist, making the sound of the notes elegant connected to each other.

When the notes going down for your right hand, let your wrist go from outside (pinky) to inside (thumb). When you turn your wrist like that, your pinky make a soft and elegant sound, rather than a stand alone, harsh and numb sound. Although your wrist is so flexible as possible, it's more the elbow that moves from outside to inside that makes the wrist movement like that.

It's a bit difficult to explain by words though. And it took me a long time to learn that, so don't worry if it doesn't work out immediately.

For the left hand this is the same but movement and note direction is mirrored.

Then let the weight of your arm, hand, wrist, finger, all together fall into the keys, rather than moving your fingers up and down. Just transferring the weight centered at the tip of your finger, to the next finger. Just try it.

It also looks you sit too close to the keyboard. Your knee should be one or two inches into the keyboard, vertically seen. Letting your elbow moving in front of your body when necessary.

Well, thats what I think about it, but I'm not a teacher. I'm still in the learning process.

Edit: I like your first video, better than the second. I think you're doing great!


Edited by PaperClip (06/01/13 03:59 PM)
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