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Topic Options
#2093889 - 06/02/13 12:15 PM New Steinway pianos, big issues
Mr.Avendano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Yonkers NY
I have the bad luck of working with brand new steinway Piano,


does anyone think the same?

Actions are not properly fitted,
hammers sound bad
overtones

you name it!
_________________________
Mr. Avendano

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#2093906 - 06/02/13 12:58 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3319
As a pianist, I think the new instruments coming out of NY are much better than they were even five years ago. The newest Steinway I have in my tuning clientele is a model B from the '90s, so I can't comment on working with the new ones.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2094220 - 06/03/13 12:08 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
David, Las Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 206
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
I agree with Beethoven986 on the new NY instruments. Steinway has more control than ever before on the manufacture of all their components. You should also figure that these instruments need careful preparations after they arrive to their destination. The cabinets components are active and mechanical adjustments need to be finely fit and adjusted to the environment. Many dealers won't have complete prep work done because of the expense but I would do as much as I can then reevaluate the regulation, touch, tone, voice etc. to suit the dealers environment. I have noticed that newer pianos have had a much higher torque tuning pin but with a change in tuning hammer or style of hammer use ultra fine adjustments can be made.

Small adjustments make a big difference whereas other pianos need a larger adjustment to make a small difference.

For example start with the keyframe mating and work your way up. Use S&S key frame clamps or screw down the check blocks when fitting. Check key bushings but don't overdo it. A small amount of friction is always good as the fingers touch will want to be in control. Listen closely and you will hear the movement, adjust as necessary. The list goes on...... Be careful with voicing the hammers (remember small adjustments make a big difference). I usually will just even the attack of tone throughout the scale and I will only change the voice when it is in the clients home with them present. It's amazing how quick the dealer will sell the piano when it has been thoroughly prepared. If your dealer can sponsor you, you should get in line to take the factory technical training.
_________________________
David Chadwick RPT
Las Vegas, Nevada
1923 Steinway "M"
1931 Mason Hamlin AA

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#2094262 - 06/03/13 01:18 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 1877
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Mr. Avendano,
If you are seeking advice on service procedures; please name and describe the problem areas more specifically. There are some things I wish Steinway NY would do differently but compared to when I was doing Steinway dealer prep, (1976-1992), you do not know how good you have it now.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2094558 - 06/03/13 01:12 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Bob Snyder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 158
Loc: West Coast
Mr. Avenano, please send me a personal email so that I can understand your concern, and put you in touch with someone who will be anxious to talk with you. Your comments are not at all representative of what I hear - so I too am very interested as to the specific nature of your concerns.

Please send me an email.

thank you,
_________________________
Bob Snyder
Senior District Manager
Steinway & Sons

rsnyder@steinway.com
www.steinway.com

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#2095413 - 06/04/13 04:10 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Bob Snyder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 158
Loc: West Coast
Mr. Avendano - I'm still waiting to hear from you, with details on your bad luck working on a brand new Steinway piano. Please contact me via email, or reply. I'm sure that the others are interested in further details of your bad luck.

I await your reply.
_________________________
Bob Snyder
Senior District Manager
Steinway & Sons

rsnyder@steinway.com
www.steinway.com

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#2097618 - 06/07/13 02:41 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 466
Loc: CO, USA
Hello Mr. Snyder,

I don't know if Mr. Avendano ever got back to you, but I would like to follow up on his comment: 'hammers sound bad.'

1) Can you inform how many cycles per note the hammer was pounded on a piano pounding machine, say, for the typical M at the factory before it gets shipped to dealers in USA?

2) Can you inform what the differences are in the hammer wool in that M that got shipped to the dealer and new hammers (as replacement parts) bought by a technician direct from S&S? with respect to:
- application of lacquers/stiffeners, or solvents
- voicing
- pounding
- anything else

3) What do you think are the specific items that might lead a Steinway piano to have better quality sound after the first few years of use (if you can believe that this phenomenon happens... many professionals do).

Thank you very much for your thoughts.
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2097679 - 06/07/13 07:55 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: phacke]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9134
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: phacke
2) Can you inform what the differences are in the hammer wool in that M that got shipped to the dealer and new hammers (as replacement parts) bought by a technician direct from S&S? with respect to:
- application of lacquers/stiffeners, or solvents
- voicing
- pounding
- anything else


phacke,

The raw hammers are the same whether they are installed in a new Steinway or shipped to a technician as replacement hammers, depending of course on what is ordered.

I can order the hammers pre-lacquered or without this treatment. As to pounding and voicing, these procedures aren't done until the hammer is installed in a piano.

Originally Posted By: phacke

3) What do you think are the specific items that might lead a Steinway piano to have better quality sound after the first few years of use (if you can believe that this phenomenon happens... many professionals do).


This is not a Steinway thing, it is a piano thing.

As a piano is played the felts and leathers compress a bit and the piano becomes brighter. Some find this more pleasant. Some do not.

This happens regardless of brand, size, or prep. work before the piano is put into service.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#2097689 - 06/07/13 08:27 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Rich Galassini]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1097
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini


Originally Posted By: phacke

3) What do you think are the specific items that might lead a Steinway piano to have better quality sound after the first few years of use (if you can believe that this phenomenon happens... many professionals do).


This is not a Steinway thing, it is a piano thing.
As a piano is played the felts and leathers compress a bit and the piano becomes brighter. Some find this more pleasant. Some do not.
This happens regardless of brand, size, or prep. work before the piano is put into service.


Greetings,
Like Rich said, this is a piano thing. Some makes are far more "green" than others, and need a complete going over after the first year.

Most pianists I can remember think brand new pianos are either a little "stiff", or "dark", or even "spongy". This characteristic changes fairly quickly, and along two different scales. The hammers will compact directly under the string contact point, making a brighter tone. Since humans are more sensitive to the higher frequencies, it makes the whole instrument stronger and we perceive that we are getting more sound for the same amount of work, hence, the piano begins to feel "lighter". This effect can be had( with some shortcomings), in an hour with some acetone and plastic solution, or it can come about naturally over a few months of regular play.

The other big change is the action settling down, (as opposed to settling "in"). Actions sag, and as they are played, friction goes down, while the mechanical efficiency begins to decrease. This is because the softness of new leather and felt changes more rapidly when first pressed into service than any other time, and manufacturers don't want to keep inventory around long enough to completely break them in. So, it is up to the customer to educate themselves inre what the instrument's condition actually is.

I think with so much compliance in all that new, soft felt and leather, that there is a noticeable loss of energy transmitted between the finger and the string. These new actions are quiet, but a significant portion of the note's work is spent on compacting felt. As the soft things lose some of that cushion, the action becomes more reactive to input. However, that compaction allows the geometry to move around, and things like erratic blow and jack position make evenness a moot point. The regulation goes away. They naturally become harder to control, and sadly, far too many pianos are left in this shape after the piano lessons stop.


A poorly regulated action with too bright hammers makes for a piano that only allows a modicum of control, and are no fun to play. Try voicing subtle chord work under a melodic line on an action that will bite... They ALL need to be regulated after the first 100 hours of heavy use. Otherwise, the pianist is throwing 30% of their response away, while making everything pianissimo difficult.

Ask your tech about the condition of your regulation.
Regards,


Edited by Ed Foote (06/07/13 08:28 AM)

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#2097693 - 06/07/13 08:35 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...As a piano is played the felts and leathers compress a bit and the piano becomes brighter. Some find this more pleasant. Some do not.

"This happens regardless of brand, size, or prep. work before the piano is put into service."


Well said--- even, perfectly said. One could add that the action parts wear or settle slightly, depending on the player's touch. The piano accommodates itself to the way it is played, becoming 'yours.' If your tech is on the ball, the voicing can be slightly adjusted over time, so that the hammers adjust more gracefully and the voice does not become excessively bright; the hammers just develop the character and power that they were designed to have. There are no chemical hardeners or needling techniques that can substitute for this natural maturing and development, which a few years of playing-in bring about.
_________________________
Clef


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#2097769 - 06/07/13 10:49 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Jeff Clef]
Tunewerk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 405
Loc: Boston, MA
I notice here, no one has really listened at all to Mr. Avendano. There's a lot of defensive energy, as if it is taboo to say that Steinway's quality might have declined over the years despite 'better quality control'.

If not, who cares? Share your experience or leave it alone.

Is it really necessary to discount someone's opinion with 'helpful' derailing rhetoric because their comment may reduce Steinway's bottom line by a few dollars in the undetermined future?

What Mr. Avendano is talking about has nothing to do with a piano settling in or anything of the sort.
_________________________
www.tunewerk.com

Unity of tone through applied research.

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#2097788 - 06/07/13 11:28 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Seems like Mr. Avendano checked out after making some pretty broad and vague statements. After he had been invited to expound and hadn't responded, others took the opportunity to talk about what they wanted.
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#2097793 - 06/07/13 11:35 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
RPD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 961
Loc: Kalamazoo Michigan
As piano techs we need to advocate for the industry IMHO. This means (for me) that I think I agree with the replies that ask for more specific info before concluding that Steinway is missing the boat on quality.

FWIW

Rick
_________________________
MPT(Master Piano Technicians of America)
Member AMICA (Automated Musical Instruments Collector's Association)
(Subscriber PTG Journal)
Piano-Tuner-Rebuilder/Musician www.actionpianoservice.com

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#2097821 - 06/07/13 12:05 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
Mr. Avendano,

It would certantly be interesting if you could be more specific about the things you point out and even what you have done to solve the problems.
Are you talking about NY or Hamburg pianos?

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#2097833 - 06/07/13 12:14 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Conway, AR USA
This topic is arguably the most cyclical of all.

Steinway is a world class grand piano. Have there been a few snafus along the way? Of course. Warranty issues? Yes. What manufacture has not had their share of these. Again, IF dealers will prep these pianos per agreement with Steinway, then usually all ends well. When dealers fail in this responsibility, problems often ensue down the road. In these cases the fault is not Steinway's.

Most local complaints concern Steinway uprights. Not from customers, mind you. From the last techs. The customers simply relay Frustrated Tuners disparaging remarks about this or that - and why they are not coming back to tune. By early 2006 I must have "inherited" everyone of the things in Greater Little Rock. So what was the problem? Quirky? Yes, somewhat. Difficult? At times, yes. Customers were reassured that the S&S upright is a great piano too, and that the "problems" are nothing that a little extra time and patience could not cure.

Hey, guys (and gals) if it was easy, they wouldn't need us.





Edited by bkw58 (06/07/13 12:29 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicæ

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

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#2097991 - 06/07/13 04:34 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Tunewerk]
Blues beater Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 128
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Originally Posted By: Tunewerk
I notice here, no one has really listened at all to Mr. Avendano. There's a lot of defensive energy, as if it is taboo to say that Steinway's quality might have declined over the years despite 'better quality control'.

If not, who cares? Share your experience or leave it alone.

Is it really necessary to discount someone's opinion with 'helpful' derailing rhetoric because their comment may reduce Steinway's bottom line by a few dollars in the undetermined future?

What Mr. Avendano is talking about has nothing to do with a piano settling in or anything of the sort.
What IS Mr. Avendeno talking about? Kind of hard to tell. He made broadly disparaging remarks about Steinways and when a Steinway rep offered to look into why he was dissatisfied he vanished. His credibility is not very good to me.
_________________________
Don, playing the blues in Austin, Texas on a 48" family heirloom Steinway upright, 100 year old 54" Weber upright, and unknown make turn of the century 54" upright -- says "Whittier NY" on the plate

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#2098032 - 06/07/13 05:49 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
tds Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Bastrop, Texas
With a loving nod to Mr. Rogers, "Can you say TROLL? I thought you could."
_________________________
Stay tuned.

Tom Seay, Recovering Piano Technician
Bastrop, Texas

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#2098450 - 06/08/13 02:46 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 466
Loc: CO, USA
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments about hammers (Mr. Galassini, Mr. Foote, Mr. Clef). I believe this combined wisdom gives a very good image of the fundamentals going on. I guess the only original question still open is how much each hammer in a shipping M gets pounded at the factory; a new hammer apparently comes with none at all - I suppose that is not a surprise.

Do you generally buy the pre lacquered replacement hammers or not?

I realize I neglected to write the motivation for my question. I am trying to prioritize possible future upgrades to my old M-style piano. So my motive here is to gather data and understanding to figure the risk vs. reward of a hammer and action parts change out. On the risks side, several places on this Piano World forum (not to mention the OP) and even in a published book, James Barron, "Piano", there is the impression that Steinway and Sons hammers are difficult to voice. That book describes the NY Steinway Hall basement that distributes the circulating Ds complaining that the factory added too much lacquer or the like, and the techs at Steinway Hall have to dissolve some of it back out.

I don't have the experience of playing many spanking brand new pianos. I can say my aunt's new Schimmel grand when new had a warm soft sound. I suppose that is not what Steinway is aiming for (with their hammers?), because I have never heard a (NY) Steinway that I would describe as sounding soft and warm like that Schimmel. A newer looking Steinway B I tried at the store, in fact, sounded like Mr. Foote described: "These new actions are quiet, but a significant portion of the note's work is spent on compacting felt." I guess the wool needs to be packed down a while to get the famous Steinway sound (thus my earlier question about time on the pounding machine, which isn't apparently enough considering Mr. Foote wrote: "manufacturers don't want to keep inventory around long enough to completely break them in." You therefore have to buy--when new--on what it might sound like in the future: risk!).

My existing hammers have been sanded some (I'll measure what's left some day soon to get some quantitative metrics). The technician visit that came some months after this sanding event voiced down any of the shrill sounding hammers. It is still a bright piano, but I can play pianissimo, and the una chorda peddle voices it down further quite well when need be. So, I'm not feeling the immediate need of a hammer change out, but am still gathering data. Bass string change out is probably higher on the list in my opinion. However, the knowledge gained in this thread will be valuable and applied at some future time I am sure.

Mr. Foote wrote: Ask your tech about the condition of your regulation.

Answer Tech 1) Change the bass strings next
Answer Tech 2: rebuild specialist) Because the hammers are worn, you will want to change the hammers. Because the action is old, you will want to change shank, flange, repetition assemblies too while you are at it. (I will attempt a full voicing first however--not tried yet and much less costly.)

Thank you very much again for all your thoughts and answers above in this thread,

Regards -


Edited by phacke (06/08/13 02:54 AM)
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2100037 - 06/10/13 01:37 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
For a FACT, all Steinways are not created equally! For instance, I ended up servicing a Steinway "D" this afternoon for a university. This was a Steinway from heck!!(mind you, I am not the regular piano tech for this instrument), but what normally would take an hour or so to tune, took a whole 2 hours. The damn pin block kept shifting on me, and while I have learned to deal with situations like this, it's just frustrating cause it takes so much time to fight this flaw in the piano. I love tuning Steinways grands, but I gotta tell you, this particular Steinway ATE my lunch.
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2100054 - 06/10/13 02:11 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 466
Loc: CO, USA
Hello Mr. Fowler,

Bummer, are you sure that it wasn't a badly rebuilt pinblock in there? That sounds like an outlier. Pro rebuilders and users alike have told me the wrestplank is something that Steinway got right. Offer to rebuild it if you are in that line of work, everyone will be better off.

Regards -
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2100070 - 06/10/13 02:39 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: phacke]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
Phake,

This was Steinway only about 10 years old. I KNOW the importance of the plate flange fitting the pin block, and I can tell you this pinblock was flopping around like a wounded duck!I have seen it in Yamaha grans as well.
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2103891 - 06/17/13 03:06 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Mr.Avendano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Yonkers NY

My sincere apologies for not responding sooner and thank you all of for your responses. The reason for my delay is that I wanted everyone interested in the subject line to have the opportunity to respond.

I am a freelance bench technician and stringer and have 13 years of experience. I am employed by rebuilding shops, technicians working in institutions of higher education, shops located within schools of the performing arts as well as major theaters all within the New York metropolitan area.

My comments are based upon the conversations and responses to questions made to technicians that are involved in the set-up of new Steinway instruments. They are expressing their opinions derived from their collective amount of 150 years of experience. Their names and resumes are not of concern. What is of concern here is the Steinway instruments produced within the, and limited to, the past two years. I will not be interested in responding to statements or questions regarding older instruments.

I particularly wish to thank Mr. Snyder of Steinway & Sons for his response. I can see that he is truly interested in the continuation of the quality associated with the name of Steinway and hope that he will continue to participate

I am not inferring in any way that the Steinway Piano presently made is of poor quality. The Steinway Piano, either from Hamburg or New York is still the world’s best piano. The instruments’ design, construction, and parts are the best, what I am saying, is, that we are receiving what can be the Steinway desired after reassembly of the parts in their correct positions and regulation both mechanically and tonally. As a comparison let’s say that you have just purchased a Rose-Royce directly from the factory and you turn the key and the car starts but not with the barely auditable purr of the engine, but a loud CA-CHUNK—CA-CHUNK-CA-CHUNK, it is still a Rose-Royce without any question but something or things are not put together just right.

Rather than listing all the items that are in question at this time primarily due to the number of them, I would like to ask about an item found to be questionable regarding the tuning of the Duplex Scale? It is understood to be tuned to the same pitch as the speaking length or sharp by a fifth, octave, or a tenth, etc. We find that the tuning is nonexistent and even on some instruments the segments were actually flat. I have the duplex scale tuning chart for Steinway grand’s and none of the new instruments correspond to it.
_________________________
Mr. Avendano

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#2103912 - 06/17/13 03:45 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
Hello, about the duplex tuning, I believe that there is an original design (I seme to have it somewhere) but the speaking lenghts are not really respected, so the duplex scales may be more or less well within the specs.

I am unsure it is worth "tuning" them, you will change the back pressure doind so, plus the plate paint could not appreciate.

As twoo different schools are present, one that state that tuned dupex scales will tend to take some energy from the speaking lenght, and other that say that they must be tuned (to an actual partial of the speaking lenght whenever possible)

I see them as a mean to add some color and high partials, that do not necessarly need to be in tune, the original partials are in the end highly inharmonic there and may sound really too high.
Another method consist to tune the duplex scales to the actual "theoretical" partial of the note, not the real one.

Personally I prefer a sound that is more "free" to one that is driven to some justness by predefined goodies. But That is just me and I did not made precise tests.
Those "justness" points are more playing a role in the game, at the level of the coupling and how fast it occurs, to me something that disturbs a too precise coupling will make the tone longer.
As the "aliquot" string on Bluethners, that is to be tuned by ear while playing the unison.
When you are on the good color you plusck the aliquot and see it is not precisely on a partial. not far, probably, but not dead on.
Same process with unison as said Mr Weinreich.

The point seem to be that the duplex scales are part of the "clamping" system of the wire
So they must add something in terms of color or partials, but not take energy (not too much)

The motion of the wire in the front duplex sections is opposite to the move in the sounding lenght
On the back the direct coupling is possible, due to the bridge that separates the 2 sections franckly.
SO the back scales are only exited by resonance, that is why they can be somewhat influenced when the unison is tuned.




All the best













Edited by Olek (06/17/13 05:44 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2103917 - 06/17/13 03:50 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21271
Loc: Oakland
I think that the only reason to listen to the duplex back scale is to make sure that the tension is evenly distributed along the string. If there is one that is wildly different from the other two, that only indicates a tuning problem, which you can rectify pretty easily. If that is done, the piano will stay in tune better.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2103984 - 06/17/13 06:08 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Herr Weiss Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 118
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Originally Posted By: Mr.Avendano
As a comparison let’s say that you have just purchased a Rose-Royce directly from the factory and you turn the key and the car starts but not with the barely auditable purr of the engine, but a loud CA-CHUNK—CA-CHUNK-CA-CHUNK, it is still a Rose-Royce without any question but something or things are not put together just right.


Rolls-Royce not Rose-Royce.

Charles Rolls(1877-1910) and Henry Royce(1863-1933) got together
and started the company. Royce was an electrical engineer and Rolls was the businessman.
I'm quite sure one can get a Rolls in pink. wink

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#2104007 - 06/17/13 06:56 PM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2104685 - 06/19/13 12:20 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 466
Loc: CO, USA
Hello Mr. Avendano,

If this is the biggest issue on your gripe list, I think the Steinway affiliated folks that inquired here ( Mr Bob Snyder, Mr Pianolive) can go to the bar and order a double martini and enjoy.

I am wondering what the date of publication of the "duplex scale tuning chart" you are referring to.

I believe I recall reading somewhere that Steinway abandoned the duplex scale in tuned harmony because it was too bright (as others have implied in different words here). I cannot find the reference unfortunately.

Best wishes -
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

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#2104734 - 06/19/13 03:59 AM Re: New Steinway pianos, big issues [Re: Mr.Avendano]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7185
Loc: France
They are more or less tuned so the duplex sound is not too present.

Some partials are avoided, the lenght mostly allow 5ths and octaves doubling.

Too much resonance (presence) in groups of duplexes seem to be avoided.
As the duplex scale is not working so much on a note to note basis, they need to be seen as a whole as well as individually.
The lowest ones make a convincing damper leak tone, sometime.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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