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#2093959 - 06/02/13 03:22 PM Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major
Jaak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Tallinn, Estonia
Hi,

I will record it in the studio on the 13th of June.

Just recorded it when practicing.

Best wishes,
Jaak

LINK

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#2094109 - 06/02/13 09:07 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 110
That was splendid. I can honestly say I enjoyed your performance of this beloved work as much as any I've ever heard. Your expressiveness is beautiful and you have wonderful control over dynamic range and harmonic nuances throughout.

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#2094398 - 06/03/13 08:59 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Orange Soda King Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6037
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
This was awesome to wake up to. I haven't listened to this piece in over a year. Thank you!!

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#2094412 - 06/03/13 09:31 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3744
Loc: Rockford, IL
It's beautiful, Jaak! I really like your playing. Will we get to hear the pro recording?

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2094813 - 06/03/13 08:36 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
I'm about to listen and do commentary while I listen, as usual. (And go over it again at the end to edit.)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2094821 - 06/03/13 08:50 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
You could sink into the keys more at the beginning. Your sound is a bit shallow.

Work on that little octave run - it's a little sloppy.

You're doing a few quirky things with ornaments I've never heard before. Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it.

With the arpeggios transitioning into C major, your tempo is dragging a bit.

Think about tempo more. I think you tend to rush in the "lilting" section.

I don't like the staccato chords at 2:22.

2:41 - you could have even more passion and drive here, but it's not bad. I think the section leading up to that is the problem - you need to work on a gradual build, instead of suddenly switching moods which is what it felt like. smile

You're arpeggiating a few chords now - if it's not necessary, I don't think you should do that.

Your section with the runs is not bad, actually. Try to work on getting a lighter sound in the runs, and when the arpeggios start in LH then bring out the melody more.

Consider more rubato at 4:53. Again, I think your mood changes a little too fast.

The C# minor section - I like the way you're playing it so far. But your tempo's dragging a little bit. Remember, this is an emotional climax (the chord-arpeggios). You may need a bit of technical work.

The section following that is again slightly slower than I'd like.

For the coda - try to make it sound more triumphant and majestic. Listen to the beautiful, colorful chromatic harmonies. With the repeated chords - it again needs to be a gradual build, until you explode into the cascading Ab arpeggios.

These last few lines could go a little faster. The final chords - sink into the keys more, and take them slightly faster. They're an outburst of joy - this is, by the way, the only ballade that ends in this manner. smile

Overall, a very good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2094923 - 06/03/13 10:38 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Polyphonist]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You could sink into the keys more at the beginning. Your sound is a bit shallow.

Work on that little octave run - it's a little sloppy.

You're doing a few quirky things with ornaments I've never heard before. Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it.

With the arpeggios transitioning into C major, your tempo is dragging a bit.

Think about tempo more. I think you tend to rush in the "lilting" section.

I don't like the staccato chords at 2:22.

2:41 - you could have even more passion and drive here, but it's not bad. I think the section leading up to that is the problem - you need to work on a gradual build, instead of suddenly switching moods which is what it felt like. smile

You're arpeggiating a few chords now - if it's not necessary, I don't think you should do that.

Your section with the runs is not bad, actually. Try to work on getting a lighter sound in the runs, and when the arpeggios start in LH then bring out the melody more.

Consider more rubato at 4:53. Again, I think your mood changes a little too fast.

The C# minor section - I like the way you're playing it so far. But your tempo's dragging a little bit. Remember, this is an emotional climax (the chord-arpeggios). You may need a bit of technical work.

The section following that is again slightly slower than I'd like.

For the coda - try to make it sound more triumphant and majestic. Listen to the beautiful, colorful chromatic harmonies. With the repeated chords - it again needs to be a gradual build, until you explode into the cascading Ab arpeggios.

These last few lines could go a little faster. The final chords - sink into the keys more, and take them slightly faster. They're an outburst of joy - this is, by the way, the only ballade that ends in this manner. smile

Overall, a good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.

You are so off-base that it's not even funny. I think you love seeing your own words in print. Good, because you come off as a total buffoon. Who in the world are YOU to address someone like this who is in all likelihood more accomplished than you - or, in fact, most of us - could ever hope to be?

You're a real piece of work.

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#2094925 - 06/03/13 10:40 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Goomer Piles]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Goomer Piles
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You could sink into the keys more at the beginning. Your sound is a bit shallow.

Work on that little octave run - it's a little sloppy.

You're doing a few quirky things with ornaments I've never heard before. Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it.

With the arpeggios transitioning into C major, your tempo is dragging a bit.

Think about tempo more. I think you tend to rush in the "lilting" section.

I don't like the staccato chords at 2:22.

2:41 - you could have even more passion and drive here, but it's not bad. I think the section leading up to that is the problem - you need to work on a gradual build, instead of suddenly switching moods which is what it felt like. smile

You're arpeggiating a few chords now - if it's not necessary, I don't think you should do that.

Your section with the runs is not bad, actually. Try to work on getting a lighter sound in the runs, and when the arpeggios start in LH then bring out the melody more.

Consider more rubato at 4:53. Again, I think your mood changes a little too fast.

The C# minor section - I like the way you're playing it so far. But your tempo's dragging a little bit. Remember, this is an emotional climax (the chord-arpeggios). You may need a bit of technical work.

The section following that is again slightly slower than I'd like.

For the coda - try to make it sound more triumphant and majestic. Listen to the beautiful, colorful chromatic harmonies. With the repeated chords - it again needs to be a gradual build, until you explode into the cascading Ab arpeggios.

These last few lines could go a little faster. The final chords - sink into the keys more, and take them slightly faster. They're an outburst of joy - this is, by the way, the only ballade that ends in this manner. smile

Overall, a good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.

You are so off-base that it's not even funny. I think you love seeing your own words in print. Good, because you come off as a total buffoon. Who in the world are YOU to address someone like this who is in all likelihood more accomplished than you - or, in fact, most of us - could ever hope to be?

You're a real piece of work.

What is the issue here, exactly? The fact that I spent 15 minutes writing a detailed, thoughtful, and informed response to this person's performance?

Oh, and I see you've run away and logged off - and your private messages are disabled. Interesting.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2095011 - 06/04/13 01:01 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
Fight nice, kids.

Jaak, thanks for posting this, and best wishes for your studio recording. Even with just the Zoom, you have a big, dynamic sound, very attractive, and without crashing. I particularly liked the feel of the opening; you have a good "swing" to the rhythm, with plenty of energy and forward motion, but there's still a sense of ease.

Although there are areas that I expect you're not quite happy with, you're getting the job done. This is my least favorite of the Ballades, and I've heard it so very many times, but you got me to enjoy it quite a bit.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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#2095030 - 06/04/13 02:28 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4221
Polyphonist did nothing wrong, Goomer.

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#2095193 - 06/04/13 11:28 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Polyphonist did nothing wrong, Goomer.

Thanks, but don't even bother, Joel. He won't listen to reason.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2095240 - 06/04/13 12:33 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
ansatz737 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 156
Bravo, this was beautiful! It's possibly my favorite Chopin ballade, even though the others may be more "epic" in character. The only comment I would make is that opening section (approx. the first two minutes) could be more coy and playful in character... it seemed a bit straightforward. But really an excellent performance.
_________________________
Student and shamefully occasional pianist
Currently attempting:
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 4 and 7
Deciding between Mozart K. 310 and Beethoven op. 10 no. 3
Albeniz - Almeria from Iberia book II

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#2095399 - 06/04/13 03:55 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Polyphonist]
Old Man Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 740
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Polyphonist did nothing wrong, Goomer.

Thanks, but don't even bother, Joel. He won't listen to reason.

I think there's room here for both Polyphonist and Goomer. Posting a recording is always a risky business, and one should expect anything from a simple thumb, to "It sucks", to no responses at all. It's the price you pay for going public. I'm sure Jaak knows all this, and is perfectly capable of handling both the accolades and the critiques.

Personally, if I were posting a recording (ain't ever gonna happen), I'd be more grateful for a single detailed critique like PP provided, than a string of "atta boys".

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#2095513 - 06/04/13 06:41 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Personally, if I were posting a recording (ain't ever gonna happen), I'd be more grateful for a single detailed critique like PP provided, than a string of "atta boys".
I think it's really the tone(14 0f 15 comments were negative) of PP's post that was being objected to. Bruce often posts detailed suggestions and no one has ever objected to his comments.


Edited by pianoloverus (06/04/13 06:44 PM)

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#2096101 - 06/05/13 10:35 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Polyphonist]
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1906
Loc: South Jersey
First, I think this was an excellent performance. I know that there have been a few critical responses to the critique posted by Polyphonist. I tried listening and reading that critique at the same time to see if I understood and/or agreed with PP.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You could sink into the keys more at the beginning. Your sound is a bit shallow.
I liked the sound. It was warm and captures what I always think of as the dreaminess of this particular Ballade.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Work on that little octave run - it's a little sloppy.
I didn't think it was sloppy. I just thought it was a little rushed.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You're doing a few quirky things with ornaments I've never heard before. Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it.

I'm assuming PP is referring to the octave grace notes. I've heard a few different approaches to these. I tend to like them a little broader like you are playing them.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
With the arpeggios transitioning into C major, your tempo is dragging a bit.

I didn't think so. I liked how clean and precise they were. I feel you could make the crescendo and decrescendo a little more pronounced.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Think about tempo more. I think you tend to rush in the "lilting" section.

I like your tempo. I think some pianists sentimentalize this section a little too much. I've always though of it as dancing.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I don't like the staccato chords at 2:22.

Not sure what PP is referring to because of youtube's not precise time code. Some of the staccato chords are in the score.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
2:41 - you could have even more passion and drive here, but it's not bad. I think the section leading up to that is the problem - you need to work on a gradual build, instead of suddenly switching moods which is what it felt like. smile

I'm not sure of the phrase "not bad". It sounds a little dismissive. But I agree that the build up should be much more gradual and dramatic. I realize it's only four measures to build up to a ff, so it really needs to be well thought out.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You're arpeggiating a few chords now - if it's not necessary, I don't think you should do that.

Once again, I'm not sure what PP is referring to here.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Your section with the runs is not bad, actually. Try to work on getting a lighter sound in the runs, and when the arpeggios start in LH then bring out the melody more.

I liked the sound of the runs, very clean and articulated. I think you bring out the melody just fine. One of the things I noticed is you slow down just slightly when you come to the trills.You start broadening at the first trill and you lose a little of your momentum. I also think you could bring out the accents on the off-beat more in that octave section.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Consider more rubato at 4:53. Again, I think your mood changes a little too fast.
I don't see this. One thing I was curious about in this section. You bring out the countermelody in the left hand in measures 150-153, but you didn't in measures 109-112. Was this a choice?

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
The C# minor section - I like the way you're playing it so far. But your tempo's dragging a little bit. Remember, this is an emotional climax (the chord-arpeggios). You may need a bit of technical work.
I think the tempo is just fine. Too many pianists speed this up and it sounds ugly and out of place to me. Technically you don't seem to have any problems. Yes I noticed the slight missed notes earlier, but just saw it as a flub.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
The section following that is again slightly slower than I'd like.

I think the tempo here is just fine. I hate when it is rushed. It loses its dreamlike quality.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
For the coda - try to make it sound more triumphant and majestic. Listen to the beautiful, colorful chromatic harmonies. With the repeated chords - it again needs to be a gradual build, until you explode into the cascading Ab arpeggios.
I love your sound and how you play the return of the main theme. I do think the stretto chords could be a little faster and start a little softer. I also think you pause just a fraction too long before you begin the final arpeggiated section. You lose your forward momentum.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
These last few lines could go a little faster. The final chords - sink into the keys more, and take them slightly faster. They're an outburst of joy - this is, by the way, the only ballade that ends in this manner. smile
I agree with PP here. You lose a lot of your forward momentum here. Your final arpeggio down is too safe sounding and the final chords are broadened a little too much.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Overall, a very good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.
This might be the comment that strikes other members as a little too negative. When I first read it, it struck me as kind of patronizing, especially the phrase "shows potential." I think this is a really excellent performance at a high level, that can only get better.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
Faculty, Rowan Prep Community School of Music
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA
Managing Director, Northern Lights Music Festival

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#2096107 - 06/05/13 10:43 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: DameMyra]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Overall, a very good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.
This might be the comment that strikes other members as a little too negative. When I first read it, it struck me as kind of patronizing, especially the phrase "shows potential." I think this is a really excellent performance at a high level, that can only get better.
For me, this last part was the only somewhat positive comment in PP's entire post. The 14 comments before this one were negative. I think some were objecting to the tone of his entire post.

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#2096110 - 06/05/13 10:45 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: pianoloverus]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5021
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Old Man
Personally, if I were posting a recording (ain't ever gonna happen), I'd be more grateful for a single detailed critique like PP provided, than a string of "atta boys".
I think it's really the tone(14 0f 15 comments were negative) of PP's post that was being objected to. Bruce often posts detailed suggestions and no one has ever objected to his comments.
BINGO!

And to lighten up COMPLETELY the tension here, beneath the video I'm getting the following ad "A Baltic Wife? Pretty women from Baltic countries are looking for love now.". What's interesting is that I'm more into Asian than Baltic, in which case I've no idea how THIS ad got into the youtube video! (joke).

So...

I'm listening, and typing while listening...

1. I do find that the sound could be better, but I have a very strong feeling that this is due to the recording equipment and/or the piano rather than the pianist. Jaak, you seem to be doing a great job and you've got a great feeling for the piece.

2. Dynamics stand strong and diverse, as needed, and as of yet (4:00) I've still to catch a wrong note that bothered me, or a rubato going the other way!

3. Same goes for the tempo. I'm VERY used to the Zimmerman recordings (in Deutsche Gramophone) but I find this recording very very much to my taste! There's great attention to detail (which is more than I ever offered to my own recording and performances).

4. The almost last section (the repeated G#) sounded like there was a tiny bit of trouble in the right hand. It felt a bit too detached. Not too sure if this would be an issue of studying more, or just using a tiny bit more pedal... The left hand after that with the like-trill ornament is doing fine...

In all a great recording.

________________________________

And now, for the real question: Why will you be going in the studio to record this? Is it for a commercial CD? For an audition? For yourself? for your dearest friend in the whole world?

Because it makes a world of difference for those commented!

In any case:

BRAVO!

Polyphonist: Your comments may be valid or they may not: Usually too many negative comments need to be countered with some positive in order to sink in somehow. You seem to be lacking that part of posting! wink
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2096114 - 06/05/13 10:47 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: DameMyra]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3744
Loc: Rockford, IL
Thank you, DameMyra. What a beautiful explication of PP's critique. (I say that as one who appreciates sensitive, well-informed critiques.) We know Jaak to be a gracious contributor and a very thoughtful musician. I wonder if he posted this, in part, to take our temperature?
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2096129 - 06/05/13 11:12 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Polyphonist: Your comments may be valid or they may not: Usually too many negative comments need to be countered with some positive in order to sink in somehow. You seem to be lacking that part of posting! wink

Haha, I tried to insert some encouragement into my posts - the thing is, I tend to focus more on what I hear that I don't like, and mentally gloss over the interpretations I think are correct. I should work on that.

(Check my similar commentary on the recent Rachmaninoff Prelude 23/4 thread. I think you'll like that one more. smile )
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2096255 - 06/05/13 02:25 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Old Man Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 740
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Thank you, DameMyra. What a beautiful explication of PP's critique. (I say that as one who appreciates sensitive, well-informed critiques.)
Absolutely. Dame Myra did a fabulous job of providing her own critique, while using PP's critique as a foil. Almost like Siskel and Ebert used to do with movies. (Maybe you two should go on the road!) grin But I think both of you have provided Jaak a very substantive commentary, which he is completely free to embrace, reject, or cherry pick whatever suits his fancy. It is, after all, Jaak's interpretation.

But, Polyphonist, I also have to agree with pianoloverus and Nikolas. After reading Plover's post, I went back and re-read your critique, and he was right: a very negative tone, followed by a couple of patronizing sentences at the close. Nothing wrong with negative remarks in a critique, but it's always helpful to temper the negative with the positive elements of a performance (and IMO, these positive elements far outweighed the imperfections in this particular performance).

I really wish someone could invent a "tone checker". I would personally find that a far more valuable tool than any "spell checker", especially on internet forums. smile

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#2096275 - 06/05/13 03:03 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Old Man]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Old Man
a very negative tone, followed by a couple of patronizing sentences at the close.

Patronizing sentences? I complimented the poster, and then said the performance had a lot of potential, but could of course be improved, as could just about any performance by anyone, at any time...
I didn't think my tone was too negative in any individual comment, except maybe a couple - the problem seems to me to be that there was too much criticism and not enough encouragement. smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2096305 - 06/05/13 03:27 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Schubertslieder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 373
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Thank you, DameMyra. What a beautiful explication of PP's critique. (I say that as one who appreciates sensitive, well-informed critiques.) We know Jaak to be a gracious contributor and a very thoughtful musician. I wonder if he posted this, in part, to take our temperature?

Temperature seem a bit above average, a touch on the high side. smile

Sounded fantastic. I do think recording device could be better but the playing sounded great.
_________________________
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
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#2096349 - 06/05/13 04:17 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Polyphonist]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3744
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[...] Overall, a very good performance. Needs some work, of course, but shows potential.


Polyphonist, you seem to have trouble judging how your own writing might be received by the person to whom your writing is addressed (as well as how it might effect the wider audience of readers on this world stage). After listing your critical points, your two concluding sentences drip with condescension that borders on disdain. You might as well have said, "C-. Please have your add/drop slip ready after class." I mean, how would you like it if someone said to you, "Your tweed jacket exudes the smell of stale pipe tobacco." frown

You know, we're all free to write what we want to write and say what we want to say, but the matter of looking for clues in the original post as to what kind of criticism (and how much) is desired in response to a given recording has been discussed at length several times, even recently. It is an interesting question to consider. Perhaps the topic needs to be revisited in a new thread?

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2096428 - 06/05/13 06:17 PM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Polyphonist]
Old Man Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 740
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Old Man
a very negative tone, followed by a couple of patronizing sentences at the close.

Patronizing sentences? I complimented the poster, and then said the performance had a lot of potential, but could of course be improved, as could just about any performance by anyone, at any time...
I didn't think my tone was too negative in any individual comment, except maybe a couple - the problem seems to me to be that there was too much criticism and not enough encouragement. smile

Yes, you did "compliment the poster", but more in the manner of a "pat on the head".

If you need an example of how to do it right, follow Dame Myra. Her tone is perfect. She suggests rather than dictates, she praises what she likes, she inquires instead of presuming to know. For example, when comparing the two passages that were played differently, she doesn't automatically assume inconsistency, but asks, "Was that a choice?" Her tone is "collegial", (i.e. she considers the real possibility of interpretive differences), rather than "superior", which connotes more of a teacher-student relationship.

You contribute a lot of good stuff to this forum, Polyphonist, so please keep doing it! But if you could modulate your tone just a wee bit, you'll be far more persuasive. smile

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#2096692 - 06/06/13 01:19 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Polyphonist did nothing wrong, Goomer.

Well, Joel, it looks like a number of people besides me believe he or she did.

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
After listing your critical points, your two concluding sentences drip with condescension that borders on disdain.

It's called 'damning with faint praise', and I wonder if the motivation is sheer jealousy (as was hinted at in Polyphony's similarly abrasive 'review' of Islamey recently). And as was also pointed out in that thread, there's a credibility gap when you have the chutzpah to make so many detailed negative remarks but no one knows your own credentials and you've never posted a recording of your own.

To those who think P. has made some great contributions here - where are they amongst 1550 posts (and counting) over a mere three months? That's nearly TWENTY posts a day - and the majority, from what I've seen, have been superfluous and gratuitious and unhelpful one-liners bordering on trolling.

When I was new, one of my first posts was about Op. 52. P. invited interested parties to discuss it with him. I took the bait, and ... nothing. When reminded, s/he sent me a message saying 'Well?' I replied with several paragraphs, carefully thought out, asking a bit about him or her, revealing a bit about myself, and then wrote of my observations and issues in learning Op. 52. In return for my good-faith efforts to communicate in a cordial manner with a stranger who was also a newbie here? I got a reply of TWO SENTENCES. Just sayin' - something isn't kosher here. Plenty of people can talk a good talk, but B.S. walks and and I'm putting P. on that Ignore thingie.

G.P.

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#2096697 - 06/06/13 01:27 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Goomer Piles]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Goomer Piles
...I wonder if the motivation is sheer jealousy (as was hinted at in Polyphony's similarly abrasive 'review' of Islamey recently). And as was also pointed out in that thread, there's a credibility gap when you have the chutzpah to make so many detailed negative remarks but no one knows your own credentials and you've never posted a recording of your own.

I assure you that I am not jealous of anyone on this site, nor will I ever be. And here we are again with the logical fallacy that you must post a recording of your own in order to critique someone else's.

Originally Posted By: Goomer Piles
When I was new, one of my first posts was about Op. 52. P. invited interested parties to discuss it with him. I took the bait, and ... nothing. When reminded, s/he sent me a message saying 'Well?' I replied with several paragraphs, carefully thought out, asking a bit about him or her, revealing a bit about myself, and then wrote of my observations and issues in learning Op. 52. In return for my good-faith efforts to communicate in a cordial manner with a stranger who was also a newbie here? I got a reply of TWO SENTENCES.

I was indeed interested in discussing Opus 52 - apparently the same can't be said for you. I sent you a short post to clarify a few of the things you'd said in your original message, and you promptly removed yourself from the thread. Looking back, I'm indeed glad I didn't waste my time writing a long and detailed response to someone like you.

Originally Posted By: Goomer Piles
...I'm putting P. on that Ignore thingie.

Wonderful. Please do it as soon as possible.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2096703 - 06/06/13 01:38 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Goomer Piles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 110
This is the text of the private message I sent Polyphony about Op. 52.

Quote:
Not sure if you read my latest entry to Devoted to Chopin. I mentioned that I've been learning the coda first, and I find myself working backwards from there a section at a time.

I have read through the entire piece, practicing all of it lightly after working out preliminary fingerings, but this one really seems to lend itself to moving backwards through it rather than forwards.

Sometimes I have technical difficulties in unexpected places - in this case in the transitional passage from mm 38 to 45. I'm having trouble with the LH legato octaves. I can reach an octave with 1 and 3 if needed, but it's just awkward here. I haven't found a pedaling scheme I'm really happy with for that passage. In fact, I think pedaling will be a challenge in many places in this Ballade except where the harmonic changes are clear-cut.

Is this a re-learning project for you, or your first time with it? I'm a first-timer. I guess I was putting off Op. 52 because I was put off by it, if that makes sense. Regarding the other Ballades, I learned most of the first when I was a teenager and messed around with the third one around the same time. No experience at all with the second, which always seemed less interesting musically to me. I have a strong suspicion, though, that I would come to appreciate it much better if I committed to learning it - for the reasons I mentioned in my post to Devoted to Chopin.

What are your own thoughts about Op. 52 (or otherwise!)? How far along are you and how are you approaching it? How much practice time are you able to devote to it? Are you working up anything else currently?

Sorry for all the questions - but being new here, I've only read your most very recent posts and know nothing about your interests or background.

In response, I got an answer to whether he or she was working on other pieces ('Yes') and a question about that octave passage from bar 38 to 45 ('What fingering are you using?). That was it. Nothing more. Zilch.

So this, from someone who actually solicited a discussion of this piece? Yeah right.

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#2096704 - 06/06/13 01:44 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Did you ever consider replying to my questions, and then I might have given you a more detailed response?

Could you block me already, please, and stop messing up the OP's thread?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2096725 - 06/06/13 02:19 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: Jaak]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
I really find it a very curious exercise and perhaps somewhat disturbing that some feel it necessary to derail the thread by telling another what s/he should or should not say to the original poster and also how s/he should say it.
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#2096742 - 06/06/13 03:12 AM Re: Chopin Ballade 3 A-flat major [Re: BruceD]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6503
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: BruceD
I really find it a very curious exercise and perhaps somewhat disturbing that some feel it necessary to derail the thread by telling another what s/he should or should not say to the original poster and also how s/he should say it.


Exactly - it really wasn't any of his business in the first place.

Anyway, back to the OP's performance - I've just listened to it again, and I think I still agree with most of my original comments - however, I think I got a more positive overall impression this time around than I did last time I listened, when I made the original critique (and I already thought it was pretty good last time). smile
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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