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#2100909 - 06/11/13 12:39 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1716
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: noambenhamou


...If I had to so it all over again I would have played hard ball with the dealer. They would have no problem sleeping at night if you paid them 100k for a B. just like most car salesmen would have no problem selling a new Honda accord for 10k over msrp if there was an idiot dumb enough to pay it. ...



Why do people often think that a buyer has no responsibility for informing himself/herself about a possible purchase and taking reasonable steps to protect his/her own interest?
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2100911 - 06/11/13 12:41 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: LJC]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1193
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: LJC
How is it possible to spend over a hundred grand on a piano and not be happy with it? Is it that Mr. N bought a model D without trying it first?


What can I say? Youth is wasted on the wrong people? Inexperience leads everybody to make mistakes? That includes you and me?

Originally Posted By: LJC
Further why all the speculation on Steinway's trade up policy without anyone calling Steinway in New York to clarify?


If you'll read all the OP's posts, you'll see that he did in fact call the New York office many times to discus this and other concerns. He's been very forthcoming about the conversation.

A lot of you are being very harsh with (if you'll forgive me Noam) a just-barely-30-year-old kid . This is unwarranted and says a lot more about you than him. Lighten up.


Edited by laguna_greg (06/11/13 12:42 PM)
Edit Reason: oops
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2100913 - 06/11/13 12:43 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: LJC]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6215
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: LJC
Further why all the speculation on Steinway's trade up policy without anyone calling Steinway in New York to clarify?


That's the point. The OP did call Steinway in New York (the corporate offices/factory in Astoria) and they told him the policy only applied to Boston and Essex pianos. Go figure.
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#2100916 - 06/11/13 12:50 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Quote:
A lot of you are being very harsh with (if you'll forgive me Noam) a just-barely-30-year-old kid . This is unwarranted and says a lot more about you than him. Lighten up.


I have always thought that the Hobbit age of maturity (33) was a very worldly-wise gesture by Tolkien.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#2100923 - 06/11/13 01:03 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Norbert]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Laguna:

Sharing same. thumb

Quote:
When I bought my Hamburg Model D (pre-owned) from Steinway Hall I was told it could be traded up for a piano of greater value.


Really? I would be curious what that could have been?
Why were representations made to "trade up" from a 9' Hamburg?
To "what" ?

Curious....

Norbert


To this, perhaps.

Steinway Alma-Tadema
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2100927 - 06/11/13 01:09 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Piano*Dad]
Karl Watson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 289
Naom and friends:

The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

Any suggestion of it at the 72nd Street locale will signal the end of one's visit. One might use the word "prefer" but to label the NY pianos as inferior is fight'n words, eyes too close together and monosyllabic grunting will ensue.


Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

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#2100928 - 06/11/13 01:10 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: jazzyprof]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6215
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof

To this, perhaps.

Steinway Alma-Tadema


Another example of "putting lipstick on a pig" grin

(And no, I'm not equating Steinways to swine).
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#2100929 - 06/11/13 01:13 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Karl Watson]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6215
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
Naom and friends:

The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

Any suggestion of it at the 72nd Street locale will signal the end of one's visit. One might use the word "prefer" but to label the NY pianos as inferior is fight'n words, eyes too close together and monosyllabic grunting will ensue.


ha Then perhaps "they" shouldn't charge so much for the German built instruments !!
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#2100936 - 06/11/13 01:20 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Karl Watson]
Hamburg-D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 513
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
Naom and friends:

The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

Any suggestion of it at the 72nd Street locale will signal the end of one's visit. One might use the word "prefer" but to label the NY pianos as inferior is fight'n words, eyes too close together and monosyllabic grunting will ensue.


Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY


Thanks everyone for posting. I have read everything carefully.

Mr. Watson, and whoever else would like to jump in...

Do you think that on the other side of the world, in Germany, the Hamburg side of Steinway is as sensitive to the NYC models?
For example, would they care at the hamburg factory if you mentioned that you like the NYC Steinway sound better? Would the dealers in Europe resist ordering a person from Germany a NYC Steinway?

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#2100938 - 06/11/13 01:24 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: carey]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: carey

ha Then perhaps "they" shouldn't charge so much for the German built instruments !!

If you were to try to buy a NY Steinway D in Germany you'd most likely pay Hamburg D prices for it. Shipping ain't free!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2100939 - 06/11/13 01:28 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Cinnamonbear Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Rank Piano Amateur
Way off topic: who out there remembers (or knows) where "Get it, got it, good!" comes from (besides coming from Marty's post)? Or, more accurately, "Get it?" "Got it." "Good."

At least one place where it's from. . . .



In b4 lock. For the record, Danny Kaye and Basil Rathbone in "The Court Jester."

_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2100941 - 06/11/13 01:33 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Piano*Dad]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1193
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
[quote]

I have always thought that the Hobbit age of maturity (33) was a very worldly-wise gesture by Tolkien.


Thanks for that, Dad! I really think it's more like 40. You've calmed down a bit, you have some experience under your belt and lived, you still look good naked (one hopes), but you are not so drunk on the Wine of Life (not the I'm running it down or anything but...)

My 40s were my best decade. But I'm starting to think that my 50s are going to be even better than so, go figure!

Youth is wasted on the wrong people. And it's overrated. Like I said.


Edited by laguna_greg (06/11/13 01:38 PM)
Edit Reason: oops
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2100942 - 06/11/13 01:34 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Cinnamonbear]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1193
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Cinn , I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2100946 - 06/11/13 01:38 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Karl Watson]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1193
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson


Their brains would explode.



Eeewww, Exploding Steinway Brains. Eeewwww.

That image is now tattooed on the backs of my eyelids, Karl. I'll be scarred forever. And it's your fault.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2100947 - 06/11/13 01:43 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
the brew that is true! smile

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#2100953 - 06/11/13 01:53 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1516
Loc: New York
Norbert - To a newer model D, which is a trade up in price.

Carey - you are right Mr. N did say NY said only from Boston or Essex however that is not what I was told by NY S&S and they were quite clear about that.

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#2100957 - 06/11/13 02:03 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 852
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Luckily, Mike Carr and Turnadot are on hiatus or their heads would have exploded from these two threads. I don't know which is worse, that this may still very well be a put on, or that it's all on the up and up and this dilettante can engage this forum to this extent. Wait! I'm feeling a weird pressure in my cran...
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I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2100960 - 06/11/13 02:14 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: carey]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

ha Then perhaps "they" shouldn't charge so much for the German built instruments !!

Maybe you should compare the price to the "other" German S&S.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2100977 - 06/11/13 03:06 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Hamburg-D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 513
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

ha Then perhaps "they" shouldn't charge so much for the German built instruments !!

Maybe you should compare the price to the "other" German S&S.


Marty. I find it a bit difficult to find a proper quote for a hamburg D.
I found on the website that has book values for Steinway that they are around 160k including taxes etc. A Steinway dealer said 190k not including a piano bench or taxes.

I think I will call the uk and find out for myself instead of relying on these "sources".

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#2101013 - 06/11/13 04:09 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
New Hamburgs can only be bought through your local, authorized Steinway dealer.
You make the deal with your local dealer first, then select at factory later if like.
Nobody in Germany will sell you directly and ship piano to where you live.
To my understanding, Steinway is very strict with this.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (06/11/13 05:36 PM)
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#2101015 - 06/11/13 04:14 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: noambenhamou
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
The very suggestion that S&S would consider the production of the German house as superior in ANY way to its Astoria pianos would be company heresy. Their brains would explode.

ha Then perhaps "they" shouldn't charge so much for the German built instruments !!

Maybe you should compare the price to the "other" German S&S.


Marty. I find it a bit difficult to find a proper quote for a hamburg D.
I found on the website that has book values for Steinway that they are around 160k including taxes etc. A Steinway dealer said 190k not including a piano bench or taxes.

I think I will call the uk and find out for myself instead of relying on these "sources".

I was responding to Carey about the cost of the "other German S&S." There is more than one, you know? They are considerably more expensive than the brand you are considering.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2101023 - 06/11/13 04:33 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1752
Thanks for the clip from the Court Jester!

The chalice from the palace holds the potion with the poison. . . .

How do we tell which chalice holds the brew that is true?




Edited by Rank Piano Amateur (06/11/13 04:34 PM)

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#2101038 - 06/11/13 04:56 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Karl Watson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 289
Friends:

Fantasia or not, the tone of these contributions is streets ahead of the last go round. Hats off, ladies and gentlemen.

Although it's rather far off topic, the question about reactions of the Hamburg outfit to one's possible preference for an Astoria piano. Given my impression of German excellence and the attitude of those that create and sustain it, the phrase about water off a duck's back comes to mind.

Look, Naom, if you're absolutely DETERMINED to have a Hamburg Steinway D, you've already sorted out the ways to find one stateside. I think that I mentioned before that the London dealer has a nice atmosphere and could make the arrangements. BUT, if I were in the market for a new HAMBURG D, I'd visit the Fabbrini atelier in Pescara, Abruzzo. Mr. Fabbrini's Hamburg Ds represent, at least to these old, jaded ears, a kind-of Platonic ideal REALISED here on earth.

If dynamic range is essential, you'll be devastated by what Fr. Fabbrini achieves. Please trust me about this.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

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#2101090 - 06/11/13 06:22 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Karl Watson]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Karl Watson
BUT, if I were in the market for a new HAMBURG D, I'd visit the Fabbrini atelier in Pescara, Abruzzo. Mr. Fabbrini's Hamburg Ds represent, at least to these old, jaded ears, a kind-of Platonic ideal REALISED here on earth.

If dynamic range is essential, you'll be devastated by what Fr. Fabbrini achieves. Please trust me about this.

Indeed, they do sound amazing, even on YouTube:
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2101099 - 06/11/13 06:29 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Carbonblob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 260
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca.
........Marty. I find it a bit difficult to find a proper quote for a hamburg D.
I found on the website that has book values for Steinway that they are around 160k including taxes etc. A Steinway dealer said 190k not including a piano bench or taxes...

Dang....are you telling me I could have bought an S&S D for what I paid for my Kawai last month? I never should have believed the dealer when he told me those agraffes and wheels were solid gold and not brass. I feel so used and stupid now. I hate it when that happens.....blob
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#2101101 - 06/11/13 06:33 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
dynamobt Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 646
Loc: NH
Always enjoy hearing Mr. Pollini play. Thanks for posting that!
_________________________
1918 Mason & Hamlin BB





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#2101119 - 06/11/13 07:06 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Blob,

The listing in the 2013 Spring "Buyers Guide" indicates the following:

New York-D_____MSRP - $148,400 -- SMP - $142,460
Hamburg-D_____MSRP - $163,200 -- SMP - $163,200

NYC prices are quoted for Polished Ebony to match the Hamburg finish.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2101130 - 06/11/13 07:36 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
I can in all honesty say that a top 9' Hamburg is a tough piano to beat.

I've seen some that come close but not many.

Some that did or even exceeded were C.Bechstein [few] Fazioli [several] Estonia [some] Sauter [several] Bosis [some] Grotrian [several] Bluethner [some] Schimmel [few] and Steingraeber [all]

Irony is that by paying more, personal preferance or "ranking" doesn't seem to go up.

Worst scenario: paying LOTS - and still not satisfied...

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2101145 - 06/11/13 08:04 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Norbert]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1193
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
H Norbert,

I remember that, in the 1980s, my old music department in college bought one new directly from the London showroom and had it shipped directly to the campus loading dock. Could it be different for educational institutions?

And I know two other people, private parties who bought from dealers in the 1960s, one in London, and one on the continent, and had them shipped home to the states.

Have things changed that much?
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2101154 - 06/11/13 08:13 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Greg,

With the two pianos from the 1960's, were they used in the home for some time before being shipped to the US?

With the College, did they purchase through the A.S.S. program? For private sales in the US, the purchase of the Hamburgs is always through an S&S dealer, even if selected at a showroom, or the factory, in Europe. To do otherwise doesn't make business sense.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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