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#2101312 - 06/12/13 03:01 AM Looking for perfect teacher
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?
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#2101321 - 06/12/13 04:16 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Nikolas Offline
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5221
Loc: Europe
Well... Time is precious...

I have happened to give much more time to a couple of students, but this was on individual bases and always initiated by me (and in composition lessons, btw).

It can happen, yes, it's not impossible. But it's something that your teacher needs to offer, it's not something you should ask for.

As for what you can do: Study more, check more, learn more via the Internet, the forums, youtube, etc. Show your passion and do not limit your learning just with your teacher! Find piano groups in your area to play with, find friends to play with/for, etc... Don't waste your time waiting for that hour of the week!
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#2101323 - 06/12/13 04:32 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Musiqientist Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Yeah, I'm wondering if it can ever happen for me and I most certainly do not limit my time to what I do with my teacher!!! I don't let myself on Youtube unless I'm in the car because I'm afraid I won't manage to get off of it all day and get to practice my 4-5 hours! Same with the internet, I love to research. But time spent with your teacher is special you know? I wonder if there is even a meek possibility that she'd even offer because you know....an hour extra of her life would do soooo much for me and I'm hoping she'd enjoy it to you know? It would drive my passion even more to know that it has effects too, such as getting more time to learn from a professional, and to know that someone cares and that I'm not living a dream world.
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#2101324 - 06/12/13 04:33 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Are you looking for more help at reading your teacher's mind?
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#2101326 - 06/12/13 04:36 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Gary D.]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Are you looking for more help at reading your teacher's mind?


LOL, no not really. I guess this has vague connections to that but it's not specific to getting her to give me more time. Talking about teachers in general. I'm gonna post different topics on this site too ok? *audience groans* :P


Edited by Musiqientist (06/12/13 04:37 AM)
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#2101343 - 06/12/13 06:34 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
musicpassion Offline
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 912
Loc: California, USA
Undergrads... depends on the school. I had hour lessons.

I think if you are able to define your goals for additional time it might help find a solution. Are you wanting more in theory? Form and analysis? Music history? Coaching on your playing? Etc., etc. Or is your teacher so inspiring that more "inspiration time" would help.

You probably already realize that economics are a significant road block. Professional piano teachers do need to earn a living.

Also it may be possible that longer/additional lesson time would not increase your rate or quality of learning.
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#2101344 - 06/12/13 06:40 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me.
I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who are as enthusiastic about the piano as you are. But as for offering you free lessons (that is what you mean, isn't it?), that's another thing entirely and I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to do that.
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#2101345 - 06/12/13 06:59 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
No such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid.

The next best option is retired piano teachers who are living comfortable retirements but are looking for something to keep them active or pass the time. You get something out of it they get something out of it.

I had one once, she charges a nominal amount and lessons could go on for 3 hours we did get disturbed quite often her pets though, she also lost her train of thought quite easily and went off on quite random tangents.

About 2 miles away there is a teacher who lives a very comfortable lifestyle as a wife with servants, cleaners, gardeners her sons have grown up and left home. She does it to prevent herself from going loopy. But again there is a nominal charge.

Of course you might not get the best service or focus but its a trade off. One of them once went on and on and on about her brother.

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#2101386 - 06/12/13 09:18 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11578
Loc: Canada
I'm familiar with your history through your previous posts on both sites. I have some thoughts that may help you. Please read carefully.

Let's start with what you know as lessons so far. There are the violin lessons that you had, where you were comfortable and I imagine, learned. Then there are the piano lessons that you have had for a short time, summarized as:
Quote:
I've been playing for about a year solid and am currently working on a Mozart Concerto, 2 grade 9 solos, 2 Chopin etudes, and an easier piece by Bach.

Impressions: Teacher chosen by parents, teacher having renown or fame for being a "great" teacher at an institution that also gives that sense of seriousness (a package does not its contents make). Grade 9 solos for a first year student? From quotes: the teacher cajoles, exhorts, (this playing will make her cry) --- trying to will good playing out of her student; appealing to emotion and willpower; a confusing roller coaster.

I don't think that you have encountered proper teaching yet (except maybe with the violin teacher), and so you don't know yet what effective music study is. We should start there.

Let's look at passion first. Pouring your whole being into the music, the audience is carried away, you're feeling what the composer intended, etc. Yes, something like that exists. But aiming for that as a route won't serve you and can actually undermine you. Here's what's what:

Music is a craft, that employs skills and knowledge. You first have to get the tools. These are both simple, and humble. Yet the greatest musicians have them and use them. They work deliberately, using what they have learned, and the sum total of those efforts become the music that enthralls the audience. They may add passion and vision to the mix, but any art starts with craftsmanship. Even Leonardo da Vinci began by tracing dotted lines called "cartoons" and learned how much egg white to use.

You will want a teacher who will build your skills from the bottom up, probably the opposite of the teacher you had. Since you are going along a route that is like emotion, passion, and similar, you need that for yourself, to get the right balance and the right vision. Right now you are like a roof without walls. You are like a pilot in an aircraft who hasn't learned the equipment or cartography, with an instructor yelling "triple loop, elegantly now!"

If you get this teacher, and s/he gives you simple things to do like counting or timing, or matters to do with reading, or anything that you think you already know, do them. Listen to what this teacher stresses, and make that your top priority, however simple, trivial, it may sound. Do not try to impress the teacher. Do not try to make great music. If the teacher wants your notes to come out even, work toward that. If the teacher wants you to work in chunks, two measures, then one in front of it --- do that. This shows you to be a serious student, and you will be learning those things that are the backbone of your musicianship.

Will the teacher be as enthusiastic as you, in your studies? She's a musician, so something brought her there. But she has long passed what you need to learn, and has taught it over and over to many students. It's a rocket scientist who must teach 1 + 1 = 2 (and there can be enthusiasm about this). The interest of your teacher may well be in the art of teaching. And what makes teaching interesting is if your student follows your guidance, makes progress through it, so that you can see your work (the teaching) blossom. If the student follows that guidance, then she will start entering your world just a little bit because you need understanding for that.

Keep it simple. Your ambitions are very large right now, and that's starting at the wrong end of the stick. Your first experience gave you the wrong model.

In regards to doing a degree in something else, and a performance degree as well - You have one year of piano, for which it appears no foundations were given. What you want to do is get the basics from a decent teacher with whom you will work, so that you have a platform for building repertoire etc. afterward.

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#2101396 - 06/12/13 09:54 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 471
You don't have to pay the teacher daily, just for their lessons. Just take lessons when you can afford them. The local community college should have affordable beginning piano lessons. Then you can play daily with like minded people.

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#2101397 - 06/12/13 09:55 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: keystring]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: keystring
It's a rocket scientist who must teach 1 + 1 = 2 (and there can be enthusiasm about this).


I like this...
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#2101403 - 06/12/13 10:05 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: rocket88]
Whizbang Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 739
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: keystring
It's a rocket scientist who must teach 1 + 1 = 2 (and there can be enthusiasm about this).


I like this...


Rocket scientist. You are a rocket.
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#2101415 - 06/12/13 10:26 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Whizbang]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
laugh

I have mixed feelings about derailing this thread, but this is priceless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I

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#2101436 - 06/12/13 11:30 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: rocket88]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11578
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: rocket88
laugh

I have mixed feelings about derailing this thread, but this is priceless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I


Love it! laugh laugh

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#2101438 - 06/12/13 11:32 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
Musiqientist, I have read your post, here:


Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?

__________________________________________________


Love the post.

You say: I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me.

Teacher are professionals and love teaching and, of course, love piano. But often the awesome students don't listen to their instructions, don't have their lessons prepared, come late to lessons. So awesome teachers have to do deal with an imperfect world.

The experienced, professional piano teacher knows within seconds or minutes what you have accomplished or not learned the previous week by listening to the first notes you play at the lesson regardless of how long a lesson you have.


Learning anything including playing the piano is mostly by sitting at the piano bench following precisely the instructions given to you by the teacher. It is important for people when dealing with teachers, doctors, all professionals that clients/students write a letter full of questions, ideas, goals because as experienced professions, it is not helpful for students and clients to repeat themselves and speak in a disorganized fashion. What is helpful is that students and clients write whatever is on their mind, goals, questions out the music- anything about the subject at hand because as professionals they can quickly scan/read the letters and know instantly what they can do to answer your questions and help you without wasting time with chatter during a lesson of whatever length.

You say: .....but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday----

Learning to play the piano is about you, all about you, doing your lessons accurately following the instructions of your teacher. You have to do the work. Most people/students have an extremely difficult time finding enough quality time to practice their lessons assigned by the teacher each week. Even if a students has nothing else to do in a whole week other than practicing the piano - leaning or playing the piano requires the student to be fresh, alert, and concentrate on playing the piano. So you have to get plenty of rest, proper exercise, eat properly and concentrate on your goals and not worrying whether or not your teacher is perfect or not. The reason is that a student can become the worlds best piano player even though they have a less than perfect teacher and the worst students that are rich and bright can't play the piano because of their inability to follow the instruction and be sufficiently focused.


When you say: However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn.

It is important to understand that you as a student have control of your life and everything depends on what you do or don't do and not what the teacher does or doesn't do.

You say: I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous.

I when I was in college in the United States during the Vietman war - I am a Canadian - I went to college/school 5 days a week and so did the rest of the students at school for two years. But I knew a student that only went to night school part-time twice a week and graduated with honours in 6 months - so don't worry about the schools in Europe and be jealous because it sounds like you are so motivated that you could also study piano part-time and be one of best piano players in the world because you have the drive and are focused on your goal.


You say: There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?

Again, it is never what you have in an imperfect world, but is what you are able to do when everything isn't working in your favor and you let nothing, absolutely nothing get in your way and prevent you from accomplishlying your goal.


Edited by Michael_99 (06/12/13 11:45 AM)

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#2101441 - 06/12/13 11:37 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Michael_99]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11578
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Michael

Learning to play the piano is about you, all about you, doing your lessons accurately following the instructions of your teacher. You have to do the work.

That assumes appropriate instructions. Have you read my quote, where the OP was being given grade 9 level music as a first year student? If a teacher wants this music to be played "perfectly", or musically, or whatnot - and the student bends herself backward trying to achieve this (by magic?) - this is not sound. The instructions must be appropriate. And if they are, the student must follow them through action, as you say.

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#2101449 - 06/12/13 12:14 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?


You don't happen to live near Edinburgh, do you?
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#2101452 - 06/12/13 12:24 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
OK. Here's the OP's thinking:

1. Since I'm super passionate, someone ought to give me free lessons.
2. I don't have enough money.
3. Other people have advantages that I don't have.

My response:

1. There is an underlying assumption that "I am so passionate that I deserve to be handed service for free, and teaching piano isn't really work anyway, is it?"
2. Look at how to increase your income. Perhaps work more hours at a paying job.
3. Yes, we can all find someone who has more advantages (and fewer BTW) than we do.

Bottom line as I see it:

Don't let your desire for great accomplishments prevent you from having any accomplishments.

In other words, you want daily lessons but see no way to get them, so instead of starting weekly lessons (or working more to pay for more frequent lessons), you fume at others advantages, and at teachers whom you judge as lacking your level of passion. This can be a fun past time, but it won't get you a single step closer to the accomplishments you hope for.


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (06/12/13 12:27 PM)
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"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
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#2101458 - 06/12/13 12:49 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11578
Loc: Canada
Ann, I missed the freebies part. Agreed.

Also, a lot of the aspects of music that are not directly related to playing can be found through research and independent study. The Internet is a treasure trove of resources.

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#2101549 - 06/12/13 03:31 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 912
Loc: California, USA
Some great replies here. I especially like what Keystring had to say.

I wasn't aware of the OPer's background.

I've had transfer students like this. The poor student was given a Chopin Nocturne to work on, among other things, by his previous teacher. It was so far beyond him I can't even describe it, but I'm sure everyone can imagine.

He wouldn't accept good instruction, and lasted a very short time. After me this student "studied" with one of my colleagues and had the same result.

My point to the OP: If you want to further your musical journey and benefit from piano teaching you will need to keep/find a teachable mindset.
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#2101560 - 06/12/13 03:51 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: musicpassion]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Undergrads... depends on the school. I had hour lessons.

I think if you are able to define your goals for additional time it might help find a solution. Are you wanting more in theory? Form and analysis? Music history? Coaching on your playing? Etc., etc. Or is your teacher so inspiring that more "inspiration time" would help.

You probably already realize that economics are a significant road block. Professional piano teachers do need to earn a living.

Also it may be possible that longer/additional lesson time would not increase your rate or quality of learning.


Define it? Err, more everything! What I do is go in there go through exercises and scales and ram through pieces as fast as possible.

Yeah, you make a good point. That is may not necessarily help. I suppose once a week became the standard because that was what was most beneficial to most people. And sometimes I feel that way after my once a week lesson, like it was slow and unproductive, even unnecessary but that's not usually the case. When I'm practicing I often think things like "Wouldn't it be cool to do sight reading with her?" Or explore a new and unique piece with her and share my thoughts and get her opinion of the piece?" Or when we start a new piece and it's a new composer she can tell be all about that composer! Also if I had more time we would be able to thoroughly cover everything that I practice each week. It's like the best time and it's a pity it has to be squished in! But of course, I understand that she needs money! Erm, I think unfairness might also be a factor.


Edited by Musiqientist (06/12/13 03:57 PM)
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#2101564 - 06/12/13 03:57 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: currawong]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me.
I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who are as enthusiastic about the piano as you are. But as for offering you free lessons (that is what you mean, isn't it?), that's another thing entirely and I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to do that.


I guess I'm just thinking that I know teacher like that exist and...I think I should have one! I think...if they were as enthusiastic as me and they found that it was beneficial for me, which they probably would, than they would give the time. I'm not exactly thinking of it as free lessons just like that. Perhaps the willingness to do it if I proved myself because that way I know that I'm learning at the maximum speed that I can. So that means I'm not necessarily getting one free minute, but the time is not what is being focused on most.
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#2101565 - 06/12/13 03:57 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3166
Loc: Virginia, USA
As discussed in other threads, the OP needs to stay focused and has difficulty not getting distracted.

More teacher time to explore more directions is mostly likely counterproductive.
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#2101566 - 06/12/13 03:59 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: TimR]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: TimR
As discussed in other threads, the OP needs to stay focused and has difficulty not getting distracted.

More teacher time to explore more directions is mostly likely counterproductive.


Some of my life is being distracted as a whole, not my playing. These days I play 5 hours regularly.

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#2101571 - 06/12/13 04:11 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
But why would they give you their time without pay? You obviously think you are doing the teacher a favor by being enthusiastic. What an ego.
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#2101574 - 06/12/13 04:15 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Minniemay]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
But why would they give you their time without pay? You obviously think you are doing the teacher a favor by being enthusiastic. What an ego.


Wanting more time means I have an ego? Didn't say they should or should not either, I'm just saying I want it, including any other involvement with music. I obviously also didn't say they would. Don't understand you.

I guess I might have an ego but your reasons for thinking so don't make complete sense.


Edited by Musiqientist (06/12/13 04:18 PM)
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#2101577 - 06/12/13 04:19 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Quote:
Also, a lot of the aspects of music that are not directly related to playing can be found through research and independent study. The Internet is a treasure trove of resources.


Yeah.
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#2101585 - 06/12/13 04:38 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: justpin]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: justpin
No such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid.

The next best option is retired piano teachers who are living comfortable retirements but are looking for something to keep them active or pass the time. You get something out of it they get something out of it.

I had one once, she charges a nominal amount and lessons could go on for 3 hours we did get disturbed quite often her pets though, she also lost her train of thought quite easily and went off on quite random tangents.

About 2 miles away there is a teacher who lives a very comfortable lifestyle as a wife with servants, cleaners, gardeners her sons have grown up and left home. She does it to prevent herself from going loopy. But again there is a nominal charge.

Of course you might not get the best service or focus but its a trade off. One of them once went on and on and on about her brother.




So would you say it's nearly impossible to find such a person? I haven't thought any of this out very well to be honest but where I am coming from is several acquaintances of friends and such connections say that their teacher often keeps them for several hours at a time during the lesson or at least well over the hour. Otherwise when I read up biographies of my favorite musicians, I always see here and there that they seemed to see their teacher often and that there was something special about their teacher. It just didn't seem to be once a week and nothing else but then again I have not been playing very long. One of my college instructors was a musician and he says such teacher definitely exist but you have to look hard. I feel the same way based on the information I have but of course they are not very common. That doesn't mean that nothing but time counts and that I would instantly switch to ta teacher who gave more time just for the sake of free loading. They have to teach well too. Just my thoughts.
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#2101592 - 06/12/13 04:49 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 833
I think you should practice two hours less per day and use the time to clean houses. That way you will have more money to pay a piano teacher. Also, you will strengthen your hands. At the same time, the three hours in which you do practice will be more focused. You could also clean the house of the piano teacher and use the money to pay for more lessons.

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#2101641 - 06/12/13 06:44 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: musicpassion]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11578
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Some great replies here. I especially like what Keystring had to say.

It remains to be seen whether it is taken seriously by the OP.

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#2101686 - 06/12/13 07:59 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: keystring]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
Some great replies here. I especially like what Keystring had to say.

It remains to be seen whether it is taken seriously by the OP.


Sorry I had to take off, just got home.
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#2101714 - 06/12/13 08:54 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Is this going to end up like your last thread?

What ever happened with that teacher?
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2101815 - 06/13/13 03:37 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Michael_99]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Quote:
Love the post.

Yay!

Quote:
Learning anything including playing the piano is mostly by sitting at the piano bench following precisely the instructions given to you by the teacher. It is important for people when dealing with teachers, doctors, all professionals that clients/students write a letter full of questions, ideas, goals because as experienced professions, it is not helpful for students and clients to repeat themselves and speak in a disorganized fashion. What is helpful is that students and clients write whatever is on their mind, goals, questions out the music- anything about the subject at hand because as professionals they can quickly scan/read the letters and know instantly what they can do to answer your questions and help you without

I agree, and I usually attempt to do this.
Quote:
wasting time with chatter during a lesson of whatever length.

Yes and we could also have a very productive lesson even if it was very long!

Quote:
Learning to play the piano is about you, all about you, doing your lessons accurately following the instructions of your teacher. You have to do the work. Most people/students have an extremely difficult time finding enough quality time to practice their lessons assigned by the teacher each week.

Most people, but there are still enough people who are just as talented and focused as you are. There are people in the middle too, and the compeition feels like it is just that fierce.
But of course you are right in saying that if you do not have the mind for it that you won't have a chance period, but it's not like that persons that rare either. You would say that all the people in the middle category won't make it perhaps? And that the kind that gets you successful is so rare that they will end up successful? I wonder how you determine whether you have that in yourself.
Quote:
So you have to get plenty of rest, proper exercise, eat properly and concentrate on your goals and not worrying whether or not your teacher is perfect or not. The reason is that a student can become the worlds best piano player even though they have a less than perfect teacher and the worst students that are rich and bright can't play the piano because of their inability to follow the instruction and be sufficiently focused.

Maybe there's always something that someone missed. smile

Quote:
I when I was in college in the United States during the Vietman war - I am a Canadian - I went to college/school 5 days a week and so did the rest of the students at school for two years. But I knew a student that only went to night school part-time twice a week and graduated with honours in 6 months - so don't worry about the schools in Europe and be jealous because it sounds like you are so motivated that you could also study piano part-time and be one of best piano players in the world because you have the drive and are focused on your goal.

Thank you. smile It doesn't feel that way to me though! I always feel like I am on the edge and will need a boost of some sort, something extra or I won't make it.

Quote:
Again, it is never what you have in an imperfect world, but is what you are able to do when everything isn't working in your favor and you let nothing, absolutely nothing get in your way and prevent you from accomplishlying your goal.

So in terms of piano playing you think that there is nothing ever stopping you? Because again, I am making a generalization but it seems that every single person who was famous, lived near a conservatory that had a good program, had musical parents, found a special teacher, etc. Because they say that the teacher is a big factor, and if that is the case than how can it not get in your way? Even if you try?
But also I think you have a great point, just because people are playing in more recitals doesn't mean they are better than me and if they are it doesn't mean that was for any specific reason aside from how we practiced, but it really seems that way.
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#2101816 - 06/13/13 03:43 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: ten left thumbs]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?


You don't happen to live near Edinburgh, do you?


No why?
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#2101817 - 06/13/13 03:44 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Candywoman]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: Candywoman
I think you should practice two hours less per day and use the time to clean houses. That way you will have more money to pay a piano teacher. Also, you will strengthen your hands. At the same time, the three hours in which you do practice will be more focused. You could also clean the house of the piano teacher and use the money to pay for more lessons.


I guess I was not very clear on the money part. All the money I use is my parents, it would be easy for me to persuade/manipulate them into letting me have two lessons a week with my teacher but I'm not willing to do that. There are also more efficient ways for me to accumulate money anyways, if your not kidding about the strengthening my hands part. :pp My parents would never allow me to enter the house of a stranger like that. I was offered a position as a tutor at my college. I think I'm looking for something else in this "dream teacher" I don't even want there to be structure somehow! But so in your opinion, practicing less and managing to get another few lessons will be beneficial? You support the idea of having more time? If I get the lessons won't I have to practice more?
I'd clean my teachers house though, she'd get a kick out of it.
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#2101818 - 06/13/13 03:47 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: malkin]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: malkin
Is this going to end up like your last thread?

What ever happened with that teacher?


I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I guess the answers no...unless you bring up the topic of the previous thread, which you just did.

Nothing happened with that teacher, I still see her every week.
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#2101840 - 06/13/13 07:09 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
I don't walk into a shop and ask to take something away for free. In the same way I wouldn't expect anyone to ask for my services without payment.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2101904 - 06/13/13 10:30 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: ten left thumbs]
MaggieGirl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 471
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
I don't walk into a shop and ask to take something away for free. In the same way I wouldn't expect anyone to ask for my services without payment.


Even if you are passionate about the item?

If money isn't the issue, then manipulating a piano teacher to teach you for free is bizarre. No matter what kind of passion you have for it.

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#2101915 - 06/13/13 10:51 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
piano2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 79
Here's my advice - stop wishing for something that hardly ever exists, and create some musical opportunities for yourself. Of course it's great to connect musically with your teacher, but there are lots of other people you can connect with as well.

Here are some ideas you could explore:
1. Find a duet partner - or two, or three. Sight read duets together, and pick some more difficult ones that will take more practice.
2. Organize some concerts yourself - at homes for senior citizens, libraries, etc. Your teacher could probably help you find some other students to perform, and would be grateful that you organized it.
3. Look for someone that you could accompany - perhaps a friend plays a different instrument and needs an accompanist?
4. If you go to church, volunteer to play the piano at services.
5. Volunteer to play for the choir at your current school or at an elementary school.
6. Form a band with some friends - you play the keyboard parts.
7. Play percussion for a community band - if you can read music and are willing to try different percussion instruments, it could work out.
8. Take a music theory, or music history course.

Most of my suggestions require a certain level of skill on the piano - if you are practicing 4-5 hours per day, I assume you are close to that level.

You can have fun with music in so many ways - don't depend on your teacher to do all the work.

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#2101921 - 06/13/13 11:07 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: MaggieGirl]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: MaggieGirl
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
I don't walk into a shop and ask to take something away for free. In the same way I wouldn't expect anyone to ask for my services without payment.


Even if you are passionate about the item?



Indeed, even if I am passionate. I have been disrespected and short changed by people who consider themselves decent and would be very upset if one day their boss just decided to omit paying them. Why? Because I am a soft target.

I also do voluntary work - voluntarily - for no money. This is also fine. But I don't do voluntary piano teaching.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2102172 - 06/13/13 08:40 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: ten left thumbs]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
I don't walk into a shop and ask to take something away for free. In the same way I wouldn't expect anyone to ask for my services without payment.


I didn't say I expect it. Doesn't mean I don't want it and that if I were to get it that it would be violating anything. Ask? Really not that bold of a person.
_________________________



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#2102173 - 06/13/13 08:42 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: piano2]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: piano2
Here's my advice - stop wishing for something that hardly ever exists, and create some musical opportunities for yourself. Of course it's great to connect musically with your teacher, but there are lots of other people you can connect with as well.

Here are some ideas you could explore:
1. Find a duet partner - or two, or three. Sight read duets together, and pick some more difficult ones that will take more practice.
2. Organize some concerts yourself - at homes for senior citizens, libraries, etc. Your teacher could probably help you find some other students to perform, and would be grateful that you organized it.
3. Look for someone that you could accompany - perhaps a friend plays a different instrument and needs an accompanist?
4. If you go to church, volunteer to play the piano at services.
5. Volunteer to play for the choir at your current school or at an elementary school.
6. Form a band with some friends - you play the keyboard parts.
7. Play percussion for a community band - if you can read music and are willing to try different percussion instruments, it could work out.
8. Take a music theory, or music history course.

Most of my suggestions require a certain level of skill on the piano - if you are practicing 4-5 hours per day, I assume you are close to that level.

You can have fun with music in so many ways - don't depend on your teacher to do all the work.



Yes, nice advice. I should do this for fun, the reason I'm fixated on lesson time is because I'm interested in faster progress, which might be a false impression on my part.

Thank you.
_________________________



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#2102287 - 06/14/13 04:33 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I should do this for fun, the reason I'm fixated on lesson time is because I'm interested in faster progress, which might be a false impression on my part.

Thank you.


Ah, yes indeed. Patience...
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#2102771 - 06/15/13 04:09 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: ten left thumbs]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I should do this for fun, the reason I'm fixated on lesson time is because I'm interested in faster progress, which might be a false impression on my part.

Thank you.


Ah, yes indeed. Patience...


I happen to think of that has a luxury I cannot indulge in. :p Patience? Instead of trying going after the best I can with full force? What's that suppose to mean?
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#2102776 - 06/15/13 04:32 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
slipperykeys Online   blank
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 362
Loc: Dorset, England
"Looking for perfect teacher"

To be honest, in my opinion, you are already being too demanding.

Your "perfect" teacher may already have found the "perfect" student is not you.

In my experience perfect teachers are like perfect wives, or perfect Christmases, or perfect children, or perfect jobs, or...... well, I'm sure you get the picture.

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#2102778 - 06/15/13 04:44 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: slipperykeys]
Musiqientist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 94
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
"Looking for perfect teacher"

To be honest, in my opinion, you are already being too demanding.

Your "perfect" teacher may already have found the "perfect" student is not you.

In my experience perfect teachers are like perfect wives, or perfect Christmases, or perfect children, or perfect jobs, or...... well, I'm sure you get the picture.


Give me a break, never said I was perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect teacher, it's just a title.

Anyhow, you would consider being demanding a minus in some cases then? I am not allowed to have desires think my own thoughts? I have not made any move in regards to what I mention on this thread. Or are you perhaps coming to this conclusion through other information you have collected about me?
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#2102797 - 06/15/13 06:44 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
justpin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 504
Loc: Holmes Chapel
Theres no such thing as a perfect teacher its always a compromise.

The guy I saw on Sunday ticked all the boxes, he arranges and composes, he even has a grand piano to use...

Except our timetables do not gel at all. He only has open slots when I am working.

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#2102827 - 06/15/13 09:15 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11440
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I should do this for fun, the reason I'm fixated on lesson time is because I'm interested in faster progress, which might be a false impression on my part.

Thank you.


Ah, yes indeed. Patience...


I happen to think of that has a luxury I cannot indulge in. :p Patience? Instead of trying going after the best I can with full force? What's that suppose to mean?
Why do you think the suggestions given are an "indulgence"? Those very things could give you the "faster progress" you want without having to pay for extra lessons. Also, if you do any accompanying, they have to pay you which could then make more lessons affordable.

There's a saying in the Bible, "If a man does not work, he shall not eat." Don't have enough money for your dreams? Sacrifice a bit of your precious time and earn the money to make it happen. You will be killing two birds with one stone: make money doing what you love so that you can learn more about that which you love. Accompanying or collaborative piano is a more common way you will make a living as a pianist in this day and age. It's impossible to live off the money you'd make as a solo concert pianist. Best to learn some skills that will help you progress as a pianist and make you money.

Yet, for some reason, you seem to think you know best how to progress. You say you want more lessons, but would you really submit to what your teacher says, or would you dictate to them how you wish to go about learning like you are to the teachers on this forum?

You may find the perfect teacher, but are you the perfect student?


Edited by Morodiene (06/15/13 09:19 AM)
_________________________
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#2102879 - 06/15/13 12:01 PM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
slipperykeys Online   blank
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 362
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
"Looking for perfect teacher"

To be honest, in my opinion, you are already being too demanding.

Your "perfect" teacher may already have found the "perfect" student is not you.

In my experience perfect teachers are like perfect wives, or perfect Christmases, or perfect children, or perfect jobs, or...... well, I'm sure you get the picture.


Give me a break, never said I was perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect teacher, it's just a title.


Give you a break, why? Now you make demands of me and we have never even met. If you read what I wrote you will see I didn't say you were perfect but I see no reason why anybody in a relationship with another person does not have the right to make equal demands.If you want perfection, why shouldn't they?

"It's just a title".

OK, so it doesn't matter then? You didn't mean it?

So do you mean any of the text, or is it, "just text"?
How do I know what bits you mean and what bits you don't mean?
I think you are back-pedalling there.....

Originally Posted By: Musiqientist

Anyhow, you would consider being demanding a minus in some cases then?


Think about what you have written. The obvious answer is, "yes, of course I would", and so would you, if you are really aware of what you are writing. A very simple example is this, you may be demanding in a case where you have no right to be demanding.
I'm sure that annoys you but wouldn't it annoy you if people were demanding of you in a case where they shouldn't be?

Others have the right to demand from you what you demand from them.

Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I am not allowed to have desires think my own thoughts?


Where have I said that? I really cannot see this relating to what I have said.

Originally Posted By: Musiqientist
I have not made any move in regards to what I mention on this thread. Or are you perhaps coming to this conclusion through other information you have collected about me?


Again you say something I find rather bizarre, but to answer your question, no, you really aren't of any consequence to me.

I hope you find the perfect answer on this web-site.

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#2103153 - 06/16/13 02:39 AM Re: Looking for perfect teacher [Re: Musiqientist]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Specification for perfect teacher:

Must look like Marilyn Monroe ...
buxome and beautiful ... some like it hot.

But then I'm ugly ... no wonder nobody wants my services.

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