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Joined: Oct 2010
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OP
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Hi, I rarely visit PW since I am busy with other things. However, I am kind of curious over someone's claim about the new Yamaha CFX concert grand on YouTube. http://youtu.be/9cHIjDNOWUsThe uploader said that the Yamaha CFXs are sourced with Bosendorfer action and soundboard. However, I don't believe that statement is true especially the soundboard and the fact that Bosendorfer gets their action from Renner. Although Bosendorfer is owned by Yamaha, I think of them as being two separate divisions under the Yamaha company... basically like two manufactures under one owner. I really want to get my facts correct before heading into a dispute with the uploader's claim. Given that PW has many experts and maybe a few insiders, maybe you can help me get my facts straight about these the CFX.
Forever, we can make it.
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I don't think the info in the link is accurate, based on what I have heard from Yamaha and Bosendorfer reps. Yamaha makes their own action and I believe is very proud of that. I have heard nobody say that they're using the Renner hammers, and I think Yamaha is proud to use their own stuff in their pianos.
I also find it somewhat laughable that a soundboard for a Yamaha-designed concert grand is somehow "from Bosendorfer". Now, they could source the wood from the same supplier, or specify the same grade, but I'd have a hard time envisioning a sub-line in Austria whose sole purpose would be to assemble soundboards for Yamahas being built in Japan, when the materials could simply be shipped to Hammamatsu and assembled there, and fitted to the piano.
I've played my fair share of model 280 and 290 Bosies, and tried the CFX at NAMM, and can say the sound signature between the two brands is notably different. I'd even say the 280 and 290 are a little different, while we're at it, but that's the subject of another thread (and I'd need to play a couple of new 290's before I can say definitively).
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,199
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No way. Yamaha has their own soundboard and action.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 210
Full Member
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Hi, I rarely visit PW since I am busy with other things. However, I am kind of curious over someone's claim about the new Yamaha CFX concert grand on YouTube. http://youtu.be/9cHIjDNOWUsThe uploader said that the Yamaha CFXs are sourced with Bosendorfer action and soundboard. However, I don't believe that statement is true especially the soundboard and the fact that Bosendorfer gets their action from Renner. Although Bosendorfer is owned by Yamaha, I think of them as being two separate divisions under the Yamaha company... basically like two manufactures under one owner. I really want to get my facts correct before heading into a dispute with the uploader's claim. Given that PW has many experts and maybe a few insiders, maybe you can help me get my facts straight about these the CFX. The soundboard, hammers and action mechanism are completely different between Bösendorfer & Yamaha CF Series. Bösendorfer sources its tone-wood near Saltzburg, Austria and parts of Southeastern Bavaria.
We proudly represent: Yamaha pianos (including: Clavinova, AvantGrand, SilentPiano, Enspire, P/DGX-Digitals, Arius), Bösendorfer, Schimmel Kayserburg, Ritmüller, Pearl River pianos. Retrofit Interactive Silent Systems by: adsilent and Kioshi http://www.GrandPianoHaus.com
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Joined: Sep 2006
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I would be very surprised if the hammers have Royal George felt on them, as claimed. Royal George felt was used on entry level Korean and Chinese pianos....
But it is usually not worth arguing with people who don't understand that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
JG
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,199
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I would be very surprised if the hammers have Royal George felt on them, as claimed. Royal George felt was used on entry level Korean and Chinese pianos....
But it is usually not worth arguing with people who don't understand that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Royal George hammerfelt was used on the early Yamaha C Series pianos.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Early C series pianos - let me see... that would be 40 years ago, wouldn't it? Or maybe more? Sorry, I am not a Yamaha historian.
JG
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Joined: May 2001
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Early C series pianos - let me see... that would be 40 years ago, wouldn't it? Or maybe more? Sorry, I am not a Yamaha historian. Are you calling me ancient??? I think they use Royal George hammerfelts until the early- or mid-80s.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Are you calling me ancient??? I think they use Royal George hammerfelts until the early- or mid-80s. I judge people's age by the number of their posts to PW. You are getting up there, but are still a long way from being a shrunken, shriveled ancient geezer... I probably don't have to mention any names...
JG
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Joined: May 2012
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Steve is about to join the "Yikes Club!"
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,199
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,199 |
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center Maryland/DC/No. VA Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
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7000 Post Club Member
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Posts: 7,439 |
Niney-Nine hunerd peeaners on da wall, niney-nine keyboids...
What?
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Steve is about to join the "Yikes Club!" Yeah, and I'm not too far behind. But he is waaaay older than I am.
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The Yamaha CFX now uses spruce from Bavaria instead of Alaska for the CFX and CX series soundboards, but they are Yamaha soundboards, not Boesendorfer. Lots of other pianos have Bavarian spruce soundboards, none of them are from Boesendorfer except for a Boesendorfer.
Yamaha always made their own action, and the CX actions are very good, and the S and CF series actions are amazing. Yamaha now utilizes German wood for their hammers, but hammers are made by Yamaha, not Renner or another German hammer maker.
Yamaha altered the designed of the CFX/CX series significantly after the aquisition of Boesendorfer, but unless you work for the Yamaha piano design division, you probably won't know whether the design change was home-grown, or technology transfer from Boesendorfer, maybe a combination of both.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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There seems to be the assumption that Bösendorfer is better than Yamaha. In my experience, the best Yamaha and Bösendorfer are different, but I would not say that one is better than the other.
Semipro Tech
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... Yamaha now utilizes German wood for their hammers... I take it you mean German felt on the hammers?
JG
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I take it you mean German felt on the hammers? Yes, I was thinking wool, but typed wood.
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Joined: May 2012
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Aren't piano hammers made of wood and covered with felt?
Lama wool makes lovely felt.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Junior Member
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OP
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Hi again.
Thanks for all responses. I did learn something new after reading some of the replies. I actually thought Royal George Hammers were top-of-the-line hammers but it turns out that some of the entry level models used them as well.
I kind of felt suspicious over the YouTube uploader's claim given that I've watch two lengthy videos of the Yamaha's grand piano production (The C-Series and the S/CF-Series) and read through Bosendorfer's catalog about how they build their pianos. Also given the fact that these two pianos are built with different ideologies and different methods, I find it strange that Yamahas would share parts.
After thinking about it, I should leave the person who uploaded the video alone since he is probably happy with his Yamaha CFX and I'm just there to burst his pride bubble. But it's nice to get some ideas of where they source their parts (Hoping I did not expose company secrets).
I know I should not look at videos like these, but I just happen to stumble upon it on YouTube. I just enjoy watching people's demonstrations Bosendorfer pianos and I wish to own one of those pianos someday. Given that I am not as old as some of the PW members on here, I probably have years ahead to make it come true.
Forever, we can make it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Aren't piano hammers made of wood and covered with felt? Rhetorical question? While the characteristics of the wood used in the hammer core do play a part in hammer mass and tonal response, it is almost insignificant when compared to the importance of the hammer felt characteristics for tone and dynamics.
JG
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