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#2102384 - 06/14/13 09:35 AM Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440?
Rincewind Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 9
Recently I bought a Yamaha CLP 440, and I positively love its sound and keyboard feel. The only issue I have with it is its size and weight - it looked much smaller in the shop than when I put it in my room smile And I would like to take the piano out with me on occassions, too (Just to hang out with friends who play guitars, no professional gigs, I'm a beginner).

Being an apartment dweller, I don't get much chance to crank up the volume of the 440's interal speakers (which I consider a big forte of the instrument), and mostly play with headphones so as not to disturb neighbors.

I got a good deal on it so I think I could sell it for what I paid. I consider replacing it with a smaller DP, like Yamaha P155. I understand that 440 has better sound generating system and samples than 155, which is an issue for me, but otherwise has identical key action (apart from 3rd "escapement emulating" sensor), which is not an issue, and inferior speakers, which again is not so important, what with me using headphones most of the time.

I do not insist on Yamaha brand though, what I want is a smaller piano that would match CLP 440 in terms of acoustic-piano-replacement: key action, pedal action and piano sound. Good internal speakers would be nice, but not an overriding concern. Frills like accompainment and lots of different instruments is totally a side issue. Oh, and similar price range (~1 800 EUR).

From what I found around the web, Roland FP 50 or FP 80 or Kawai ES7 look like a good match. They are not available in nearby stores though, so I'd have to order them on-line without trying them out.

I'd like to hear form seasoned pianists if these (or other, all suggestions are welcome) smaller pianos can match the bulky 440 as AP replacement.

Thanks in advance,

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#2102405 - 06/14/13 10:32 AM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Rincewind]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
Yeah, in my opinion the cabinetry styling is quite a waste. Pretty expensive, takes up a lot of space, and it doesn't get you much. I much prefer slab-style pianos like the ones you have been mentioning.

It looks like you have mentioned most of the likely suspects. You might also consider the Yamaha CP50 or higher as well. They have better sounds than the P155. The CP5 has a different (lighter) action that many people really like. Also, Kawai makes a lower end piano that nonetheless competes well with the P155...the EP3. And if you can afford it, there's the MP10.

On the Roland side I wouldn't discount the older FP7F. It can be had at a discount since it was just barely replaced with the FP80 and the FP80 doesn't seem to have added much to it. The FP7F hasn't dropped in price online but my local brick and mortar retailer has one for several hundred off. I am tempted even though I already own a high-end Kawai.


Edited by gvfarns (06/14/13 10:35 AM)

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#2102408 - 06/14/13 10:39 AM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: gvfarns]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
For what it's worth, the P155 has been tested to show that the sound is virtually identical to the CLP440, with only some ambiguity in the velocity layers*. The tones and samples are identical. As you said, you would be downgrading from the GH3 to GH, but the feel should be almost the same and you lose the cabinet weight.

*Source
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2103683 - 06/17/13 05:30 AM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Rincewind]
Rincewind Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 9
Thanks for your insight. The only slab I was able to compare was the 155, and it actually sounded quite less satisfying than the CLP 440. The salesman told me that the 155 is missing samples in the fortissimo range, string resonance and some other features. The 155 also does not have stand with a fixed pedal (i. e. connected to the stand), and you can only attach a "loose" one.

The Rolands somehow put me off by the presence of hundreds of different sounds, althought it of course does not neccessarily mean that they didn't get their pianos right.

From what I read, I like the Kawai ES7 best. Its look is exactly what I'm looking for, and according to specs is has all the sound subtleties (string resonance, damper resonance, key-off effect) that the 155 is missing and that make the 440 sound so gorgeous (or am I wrong?).

The ES7 also costs considerably less than Yammy 440 - this makes me feel that it is deficinet is some way. Or is the extra expense just the big cabinet? I'd like to hear an opinion from someone who has tried them both, how do they compare sound and touch wise. Thx,

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#2104284 - 06/18/13 09:45 AM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Rincewind]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
The difference in sound you heard woud likely be due to the different speakers and cabinet. Through headphones, the p155 and clp440 should sound virtually identical.
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2104289 - 06/18/13 09:57 AM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Daniel Corban]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8862
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Daniel Corban
Through headphones, the p155 and clp440 should sound virtually identical.


No, I don't believe this is correct. The CLP-440 is a few years younger than the P155, and should therefore offer superior piano sounds. I expect the P155 tone generator is similar to that of a CLP-240.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2104431 - 06/18/13 02:25 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Kawai James]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
Refer to the DPBSD thread. The tests show that the sound is identical. I quote, "Notes look and sound identical, with same stretch groups throughout" and "Notes look and sound pretty much identical, with same attack and loop sample lengths".
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha CLP-440

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#2104433 - 06/18/13 02:29 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Rincewind]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
I don't remember who, but owner of a CLP-120 wrote than the current Clavinovas are not a big step from the old models. If yes, any VST piano will be huge improvement. I know Yamaha sound and action and don't like it personally.

So James, the CLP440 doesn't need to be much or even any better than older models. Yamaha instead of putting money in development, is putting it into marketing (that's probably not only my opinion).

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#2104449 - 06/18/13 03:08 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Rincewind]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
+1
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2104463 - 06/18/13 03:41 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: kapelli]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3786
Loc: North Carolina
It's not that simple. Yamaha is doing A LOT MORE than just this:
Originally Posted By: kapelli
Yamaha instead of putting money in development, is putting it into marketing (that's probably not only my opinion).
They're redesigning the cabinet work every few years. If we wait long enough we'll likely see tail fins, chrome strips, spoked wheels, and racing stripes. smile

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#2104481 - 06/18/13 04:14 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: MacMacMac]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 804
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
It's not that simple. Yamaha is doing A LOT MORE than just this:
Originally Posted By: kapelli
Yamaha instead of putting money in development, is putting it into marketing (that's probably not only my opinion).
They're redesigning the cabinet work every few years. If we wait long enough we'll likely see tail fins, chrome strips, spoked wheels, and racing stripes. smile


laugh ha
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2104503 - 06/18/13 04:42 PM Re: Are there any smaller DPs comparable to Yamaha CLP 440? [Re: Vid]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Glad to know that someone's here also shares my opinion thumb

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