Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Relearning good finger technique?

I took a piano instruction course senior year of high school because the piano really interested me. Well, unfortunately, it was more like 8 months of me teaching myself from the Alfred book, which as you might imagine has garnered some horrendous finger technique that a formal teacher would have worked out in the beginning. Now high schools over, I have my own piano at home, but I've noticed my finger technique is still awful. My fingers (1-3) tense up a lot when playing on fingers 4&5 of both hands, and my pinkies tend to tense up and curl upwards when the other fingers are playing, leading to noticeable hand strain. Another problem is that I just got a formal teacher, and shes giving me work that is at my level, but I think its a bad idea to continue playing at my current level with the technique I've been using, as I don't want to further cement any bad habits. After playing around with my fingers on the keyboard it seems like one of my problems might be finger strength (4,5)? How would I go about most efficiently relearning good technique, while also receiving work from my teacher? Should I ask her to teach me as if I was just starting out to try and relearn technique? What do you all think?

I would definitely explain the tension you feel and that you'd like to work on technical exercises to assist with that. You can also continue to work at your current level and make technical exercises out of areas where it is more affected by this issue. I don't think it is necessary to step back and play simpler songs to do this.

I also don't think the problem is necessarily finger strength with 4 and 5 - but the only way I would be able to know is to see you play. It could be a stiffness in the wrist that then causes 1 and 3 to tense up when playing the naturally "weaker" fingers 4 and 5.

Maybe you also have to high expectations in yourself. After eight month no one has a good finger technique, you are still at the beginning. If you were a puppy these eight month were maybe the first one or two month of your life - no puppy can achieve the body-control or experience of an adult dog.

I don't want to negly the possibility that you've mastered your learning process of technique suboptimal - but somehow or other, be patient with yourself. Getting a good technique is a challange for a lot of years, not just for a few month.

You are motivated and willing to learn so your technique will make progress. Trust it. And trust your teacher.

Alright thanks guys. I went ahead and ordered the complete Hanon exercise book off Amazon which will arrive on tuesday, so hopefully that will help some too.

It will only help if you do it correctly.

You want to train your brain to isolate each finger motion, so that when you play any finger, the rest of the hand, and the other fingers, are as relaxed as possible.

This means playing very very slowly, hands separate, relaxing your hand between each note. Slow as in one note ever 3 or 4 seconds, at first, as you get used to isolating each finger.

Make sure your teacher knows your concern, and works actively with you in learning how to play without tension.

+1! Hanon is fine, but only if done correctly with the guidance of your teacher.

I've been playing for years and still have a pinky that will "shoot out" at times. So, I've recently got the Hanon exercises too. SLOWLY is the opperative word!!! To avoid any unnecessary lifting of my fingers before they play, I must play very, very slowly. It takes conscious effort to keep my hands relaxed throughout the exercise. And I'm really only concentrating on exercises 1-6. Mostly 1 + 2 actually. I want to build strength and independent control of my fingers without tension.

So go slowly!!! You will be way ahead of the game if you can build strength now before bad habits really get ingrained. When in doubt, go slower!!!

now in my seventh month of learning the piano, weak fingers have been a concern from the start. There seems to be two schools of though 1) playing pieces alone will improve finger strength and technique or 2) dedicate time each day to technical exercises.

I have found dedicating time each day to technical exercises is working for me. Although as my pieces get harder and more demanding in addition to being able to spend longer time at the piano my fingers are getting conditioned and improving, so I woud say it is a mixture of playing and exercises that is helping. A typical session will include conventional scales, some five finger scales, a bit of Hanon, some chord progressions and some exercises I have made up myself or gleaned of others. I initially found Hanon too difficult and could only do exercise No 1 which in itself was a great help. BTW there are youtube clips of the full Hanon exercises and a Hanon website. Hanon is actually free to download as well if you don't want to wait for your purchase.

My teacher does not seem interested in teaching me proper Hanon technique but is glad to hear I am doing them. I can only say as others have go slowly and discuss with your teacher. The fingers are too delicate and any injury can easily set you back.

These links are some of the other exercises I think are worthwhile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UsBZMs2GaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hSD3xVxVBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_wBwx2830U
http://www.hanon-online.com/the-virtuoso-pianist/


This one needs to come with a doctors warning - never to be attempted by amateurs this guy is a professional. I only include it because I think it is just fantastic to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RUrHr-9NiE

OMG!! just watched the Tausig exercise. My hands ached just watching!!!!! He made it look so easy!

There are a lot of exercises like that one.

Pischna #29 and #30 is much the same (Not the "little Pischna").

http://www.amazon.com/Pischna-Techn...71348625&sr=8-1&keywords=pischna

I am sure other technique (Pischna, Joseffy, Brahms, Liszt, etc) manuals have others very similar. In fact, much of those books focus upon exercises where the pianist holds one or more notes down, while playing others.

And yes, they are industrial strength exercises...a foundation of basic relaxed technique is essential, as is a teacher familiar with such advanced work.

Finger strength is a misnomer - there's no such thing as fingers needing "strengthening," but rather greater coordination. You need to communicate your concerns with your teacher, first and foremost. When you're learning new material, until she's absolutely sure you know how to finger any and all passages (this takes years of experience), she should be watching you like a hawk, as a lot of difficulty encountered among beginners is easily solved by improved fingerings. The arguably best thing you could do for familiarizing with proper fingerings is learning - or at least learning how to finger - all your scales and arpeggios (or at least learning why they're fingered the way that they are), but whether or not you should do this (yet), you should also ask your teacher.

Aimonetti, I have read your post, here:

I took a piano instruction course senior year of high school because the piano really interested me. Well, unfortunately, it was more like 8 months of me teaching myself from the Alfred book, which as you might imagine has garnered some horrendous finger technique that a formal teacher would have worked out in the beginning. Now high schools over, I have my own piano at home, but I've noticed my finger technique is still awful. My fingers (1-3) tense up a lot when playing on fingers 4&5 of both hands, and my pinkies tend to tense up and curl upwards when the other fingers are playing, leading to noticeable hand strain. Another problem is that I just got a formal teacher, and shes giving me work that is at my level, but I think its a bad idea to continue playing at my current level with the technique I've been using, as I don't want to further cement any bad habits. After playing around with my fingers on the keyboard it seems like one of my problems might be finger strength (4,5)? How would I go about most efficiently relearning good technique, while also receiving work from my teacher? Should I ask her to teach me as if I was just starting out to try and relearn technique? What do you all think?

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Interesting post.

Did you learn to type? When you type or use a computer, do your fingers do strange things?

Also, it is not clear what music you are trying to play and how long have you been playing, a week, a month. Are you playing Mary had a little lamb or are you trying play Chopin's Ballade 3 for the first time?

Also you haven't said if you are playing a digital piano or an acoustic piano or you are playing a digital keyboard without weighted keys but spring loaded keys. Also it is critical for many reasons that if you have digital piano that you have it at proper height of 28.5 inches or 29 inches on a hardwood floor as opposed to carpet to the top of the white keys.

There isn't a lot of strength needed for playing the piano. Usually, your back or your brain gets tired before your fingers do. And a famous piano play injured his hand for ever trying to strengthen his fingers! So you don't have to go to the gym just to play the piano.

Your teacher is experienced and she has her eyes on your hands and her ears on your music, so if she thinks you are doing something wrong, she will let you know, as a good teacher.


cheers

The Art of Practicing, by Madeline Bruser.
The lady is a teacher who has worked with many accomplished musicians who did not have good technique, physiologically. The ended up with overuse injuries as a result.
It's quite a good book. I don't know that many teachers could explain physiology like she does. It is mostly on piano and piano players. Please be patient with some of the book. She gets into meditation and yoga. It is directed at people having problems playing in the highest level. Yet addresses basics extremely well.
Everyone I have ever known who was the best in their field. They were great at their basics. Bar none!
I think you will like the book very much.

Also on exercises. Hanon is good, yes. More than one teacher I have talked to, including the one I have now, has had a particular fondness for Mikrokosmos.
You might be thinking: Oh no, I'm buying all these books and might just be wasting my money. These are all highly regarded exercise books. The Art of Practicing caused me to seek out a good teacher. I was starting out teaching myself.

Please don't get down on your teacher if he/she doesn't know to give you great advise on technique. I don't think many know. The book I mentioned. She had to study physiology to get it right. She has helped accomplished players who come to her from all over. Because they couldn't get the help and advice they needed elsewhere.

+1

I think the answer to the original question is really determined by the answer to another question: do you, as an adult, have the discipline to go back to the beginning?

Most adults don't (they typically want "progress" and unconsciously/subconsciously see this as a "setback"), but you're early enough in your journey that you might be able to go back. If you feel like you can, I'd retrain.

You don't have to go back to, "This note is a C-natural." You already know what that is. But starting with body position at the keyboard, and how the body is used to create sound (not just finger isolation), might be of great benefit for you.

You don't sound dissimilar to where I started three years ago when I first got lessons. Prior to that I had 20+ years of self-taught noodling.

The first piece I learnt was what my teacher considered to be "at my level." It was Mozart's Sonata in C, K545. A beautiful (and famous) piece but, looking back it would have been better to start lower down the totem pole. But no mind, because we did - since that time I took a mixture of (sometimes) much easier pieces and harder pieces.

At the same time we worked on technique a lot. I've done some Hanon, scales, arpeggios, other technique books. We've worked on relaxation. I've studied about the body and piano and the basics in the Alexander technique. I've gradually got to the point where my technique has caught up with the raw playing abilities (and now much further than when I started.)

I would discuss it with your teacher and lay out a plan that mixes in at least some much easier pieces - if not mostly.

Oh, and my reading ability was way below where it needed to be so that I would have to memorize before I could play many pieces whereas now I can play while reading the music to a much greater extent. Except Debussy