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Joined: Mar 2011
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I think one of the best parts of piano shopping is being able to try pianos you can't afford!
1989 Baldwin R
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My son and I had a great time visiting Steinway Hall a few years back. I did a good job of appearing to be on the market. That kept up their interest.  Well, I WAS in the market at that point, but even an "A" was beyond my budget. But wasn't that before THE BOOK came out? 
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
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ha ha indeed! In their brochures it's listed as a "best-seller."  But like many things in academia, that term has a very different meaning from what normal people understand. 
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It's a good idea to audition pianos when you're waiting for probate. ... and between spouses.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/15854.png) "Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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Another take on this, is that by "auditioning" a really enjoyable piano, and by experiencing the different flavors that various brand excellent pianos offer, one can get a sense of:
1-what is possible
2-what piano sound/touch really rings your bell(s).
Then, for those who don't have a prayer of purchasing a piano in those price ranges, you can, now fully informed and directed by an inner muse that knows what's possible, talk to one of the high end rebuilders who can make this happen for you at an affordable price. 35K-45K for a customized piano which can hold its own in the company of any teir 1 instrument. Plus, you get serious long term service...ie you get the tech who knows and designed the instrument, committed to the instrument and client as a porfessional relationship, honing it over time, to realize its full and glorious potential. You get a piano tailored it to suite your personal needs.
These sounds are within the grasp of ordinary folk, if you can think past the "buying into a brand" mindset.
Having auditioned the sounds that you want to "own", you now have both the authority and knowledge to audition the individual that can make it happen for you...or find the individual who has already made it happen in the form of a completed re-manufacture.
Jim Ialeggio
ps Obviously I'm a rebuilder/designer, but my professional standing was and is driven by my own desire as a pianist to have these excellent sounds at my finger tips in my own home, in my own way, in a way I could afford...as many other high-end rebuilders, I wear the pianist consumer's hat, the professional's hat, and the middle class hat.
Last edited by jim ialeggio; 06/15/13 10:20 AM.
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Jim,
Why would someone who owns and entry level instrument consider putting a $45K rebuild into that instrument, when they could simply shop for pianos in a totally different price category? In that price range, there are newly and totally rebuilt instruments already available to play and make a selection. $45K would also purchase very fine new instruments. Those are the instruments that are referred to as "a piano you cannot afford" in the title of this thread.
Do you consider it wise to 'customize' an instrument which was never designed to be other than a very low cost, entry level, instrument? The word "lipstick" comes to my mind.
Remember, a Steinway owner might consider a Steingraeber to be "a piano you cannot afford."
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Why would someone who owns and entry level instrument consider putting a $45K rebuild into that instrument, when they could simply shop for pianos in a totally different price category? Hi Marty, Where in Jim’s post did you read that he was suggesting that owners of entry level instruments consider spending big bucks to have them rebuilt? No doubt, Jim was making a case for piano seekers to consider rebuilds, but I did not get the impression anywhere in his post that he was suggesting having entry level instruments rebuilt. Just my .02. Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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The above shows why I advice my customers simply to look at all options WITHIN same price range. It's not "one agianst the other" but simply comparing apples to apples. "Appels" being dollars... Norbert
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Rick, Considering the topic of this thread, I found these statements to be rather odd: ... talk to one of the high end rebuilders who can make this happen for you at an affordable price. 35K-45K for a customized piano which can hold its own in the company of any teir [sic] 1 instrument. ...
... Having auditioned the sounds that you want to "own", you now have both the authority and knowledge to audition the individual that can make it happen for you... Having a piano rebuilt is very different that going to a store and playing pianos in a high price range.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Rick, Considering the topic of this thread, I found this statement to be rather odd: ... talk to one of the high end rebuilders who can make this happen for you at an affordable price. 35K-45K for a customized piano which can hold its own in the company of any teir [sic] 1 instrument. ...
... Having auditioned the sounds that you want to "own", you now have both the authority and knowledge to audition the individual that can make it happen for you... Having a piano rebuilt is very different that going to a store and playing pianos in a high price range. Made perfect sense to me.
"Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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Wouldn't $30-45K for an instrument, new or rebuilt, already place it into the category of "a piano you cannot afford?"
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Another take on this, is that by "auditioning" a really enjoyable piano, and by experiencing the different flavors that various brand excellent pianos offer, one can get a sense of:
1-what is possible
2-what piano sound/touch really rings your bell(s).
Then, for those who don't have a prayer of purchasing a piano in those price ranges, you can, now fully informed and directed by an inner muse that knows what's possible, talk to one of the high end rebuilders who can make this happen for you at an affordable price. 35K-45K for a customized piano which can hold its own in the company of any teir 1 instrument. Plus, you get serious long term service...ie you get the tech who knows and designed the instrument, committed to the instrument and client as a porfessional relationship, honing it over time, to realize its full and glorious potential. You get a piano tailored it to suite your personal needs.
These sounds are within the grasp of ordinary folk, if you can think past the "buying into a brand" mindset.
Having auditioned the sounds that you want to "own", you now have both the authority and knowledge to audition the individual that can make it happen for you...or find the individual who has already made it happen in the form of a completed re-manufacture.
Jim Ialeggio
ps Obviously I'm a rebuilder/designer, but my professional standing was and is driven by my own desire as a pianist to have these excellent sounds at my finger tips in my own home, in my own way, in a way I could afford...as many other high-end rebuilders, I wear the pianist consumer's hat, the professional's hat, and the middle class hat.
Nice post, Jim. I completely agree. It's a great idea to audition instruments one cannot afford. I always advise my friends/clients/fellow pianists and musical collaborators to play as many top quality instruments as possible when shopping - even when they ultimately will seek out something as modest as a $1500. used vertical. It is imperative to develop a benchmark of excellence in terms of tone and touch; this is highly useful when making future comparisons down the road. Until you experience the best, you'll be at a serious disadvantage when auditioning pianos, no matter what your skill level is. And 45k could represent an outstanding value when compared to a new piano costing 75-100k. Especially when it can be custom tailored for what the client wants.
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To the OP my answer is YES! Go try all the fine pianos you can get your appendages on.
JIm was suggesting, (and I second that) to also include piano rebuilders along with dealers of new pianos.
Recent market history has shown that finely rebuilt Steinways and Mason & Hamlin pianos will retain their value better than any other piano you can call an "investment". So that is another reason to audition rebuilders as well as dealers of new pianos. They can be the most affordable fine piano available.
Caveat; a significant proportion of the "rebuilders" do not produce a quality equal or better than new-so take your time to sort it out if you are going that route.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
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When I had my exam two weeks ago, they put me in this little practice room, and I warmed up on the practice piano, which was a 40-ish year old institutional American upright. Anyway the piano was horribly bright. People are always claiming how Yamaha is so bright, and assume anything American isn't, but this American piano was far and away brighter and harsher than any Yamaha I've heard, it sent fingernails on chalkboard vibrations up my spine. I practically didn't recognize my pieces. Some of the dampers were not really working, and none of the unisons were completely clean. While it was in tune, kinda, but definitely not by any tech's standards. This is one of these pianos that people are generally quite positive on whenever others ask about them. I guess the truth is any piano could be horrible if not well maintained. Anway this thing was so bad that I was in shock, yet I realize lot of people play on an instrument like this everyday, and many cannot afford even a brand new Chinese piano. When I got home, I played a few minutes on my Essex, and it absolutely sounded like a tier-1 piano compared to that practice piano at the exam. I am under no delusions. My Essex is no Steinway, but it's not bad, not at all. Moral of the story, comparing up makes you wish you had a nicer piano. Comparing down makes you appreciate what a great piano you actually own. Many people that hangs out on PW suffers from upgraditis, including myself, but since the exam, I think I'm cured, if only temporarily. As I recall, you already went from a baby grand to your current piano, and now you are looking at Steinways.... LOL!
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OP
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I guess I should have been more clear when I said Audition...I didnt mean I am looking to change pianos. I meant as in wanting to know what a high end piano sounds like more out of curiosity to see what extra money gets you and find out where the point of diminishing returns is at least for my ears. 
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Yes, you should definitely go and try. To hear and to touch the peak of the pianos. The sound I omit, because there is range from Bluethner to Fazioli in terms of brightness/clarity. Nevertheless, the power of sound, dynamics rage, big stunning bass and open trebles should be good in each of them. Once I was playing on a almost new Steinway D, which keyboard I loved (compared to all the old bad maintained stuff in polish music school) and my ongly thought was "wow, how it sounds, how it plays, what's the action, the first piano on which I can fully express myself". But the last two octaves intrebles were like somebody was inserting needels in my ears (OK, I have oversensitive ears, so often harsh sounds are making psychical pain for me) so it wasn't my dream, but this could be easily corrected by a good technician.
I haven't had this treble problem on new B model.
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Hi Jim,
Then, for those who don't have a prayer of purchasing a piano in those price ranges, you can, now fully informed and directed by an inner muse that knows what's possible, talk to one of the high end rebuilders who can make this happen for you at an affordable price. 35K-45K for a customized piano which can hold its own in the company of any teir 1 instrument.
I agree with the sentiment. But the drawback is that even the best rebuilders cannot/should not/will not guarantee that the core piano you bring them will come out a winner, after all that work is done and the money spent. When you start rebuilding, it's a crap shoot about how the thing will come out. Who wants to spend $45k when you can't even know what you're going to get out of it? It's better to go and hear already rebuilt pianos.
Last edited by laguna_greg; 06/15/13 06:05 PM. Reason: oops
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I have played very expensive instruments just to get "that sound" in my ear to help judge other ( including my own) pianos against. From Bosies, Steinways, Bluethners, Bechsteins, M &H, etc. Never have tried Faziolis but sure would like to. I am able to play a lot of stuff from memory and by ear so I can concentrate on the sound and not reading the notes. That really helps, IMHO.
Mason-Hamlin "A" and Schlicker 2 manual and pedal pipe organ
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Wouldn't $30-45K for an instrument, new or rebuilt, already place it into the category of "a piano you cannot afford?" Some people must be able to afford them, or else no one would make them.
Learner
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malkin - read the thread.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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