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#2103798 - 06/17/13 11:38 AM Kawai CA[65|95] touch
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Hi everybody, after many weeks without writing on these pages.

I have been testing a Kawai CA95 lately and have some personal impressions about it. First of all, sound and touch seem fantastic in general. Second, when trying to play pianissimo I feel that CA95 response is poor compared to CA93. With CA95 you need to press harder for getting sound, and result is higher in volume. So, I can't play with same degree of subtleness piano passages.

Have any of you got same impression? Perhaps I need to test more?

Thank you for your opinions. And, as always, excuse my poor english.
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Kawai CA95

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#2103834 - 06/17/13 12:53 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Barnie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 17
I haven't tried the CA-93, but other users have adressed the same issue. It seems, that the GF keyboard takes som getting used to, but when you do, pp is still playable om CA-65/95

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#2103864 - 06/17/13 02:07 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Barnie]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 232
Loc: UK
There was something like this discussed here
www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1993617

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#2103890 - 06/17/13 03:05 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Have you tried creating a user touch curve ? If so , did it change the touch response for the soft passages (ppp ~ pp) , or do you still have problems playing soft on the CA / GF action ? Perhaps the default factory curves are simply not satisfactory to some CA x5 buyers, but creating a custom curve helps to get a better grip on the touch and sound ?

I also read some owners use a software piano with their CA 65 /95 - I wonder how well the GF touch works with the software. Does it provide an obvious better control in the pp ~ ppp range for you ?

Almost forgot; have you tried other presets , like a mellow piano type. Could make a difference as well.

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#2103895 - 06/17/13 03:18 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: JFP]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
What surprised me was that I am able of playing in CA93 pianissimos easily. Why then Kawai engineers have changed behaviour so clearly?

I am not familiar with new virtual technician. I tried searching some parameters for tuning but didn't have enough experiment time.

I tested various piano sounds (Grand, Mellow, etc...).
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Kawai CA95

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#2103902 - 06/17/13 03:28 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
I will only post a short answer to JFP at the moment (I am quiet in a hurry :P)
I have troubles playing very softly with the internals sound of my CA-65 but when used as a midi controller with ivory it sends value from one to around 115 (I didn't dare to hammer the keyboard) and if you select the soft touch preset from 1 to 127 so it can fully exploit the software (you can then adjust how this value will be distributed in the software using the software curve).
This being said, the piano is of course very usable by itself, you just can't play from the little notch as you would when used with an external software (this might be fixable with a user curve but I haven't tried yet).

A side note, take into account the fact that I am far to be an expert player so my answer is more to state that there is nothing wrong in the hardware implementation and it can indeed send a midi signal at the softest possible touch smile
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2103918 - 06/17/13 03:51 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jean-Luc

This being said, the piano is of course very usable by itself, you just can't play from the little notch as you would when used with an external software (this might be fixable with a user curve but I haven't tried yet).


Well , if you can find the time to fiddle a little bit with the user curves (learn function) , I'm curious if that changes anything for you. Might be the default factory curves are simply not many peoples cup of tea as far as a soft response is concerned. Luckily Kawai offers the user curve option.

Out of personal interest; why can't you get any values higher than 115 out of the CA ? Could you try to play as hard as you can with a normal touch curve as setting (not light or heavy). I'm curious what range you get if you go from your softest touch to as hard as you can (try a single key / short strokes / no pedaling / no sound). You could look in de software monitor what the results are.


Edited by JFP (06/17/13 03:51 PM)

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#2103948 - 06/17/13 04:44 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Sorry, I won't be able to try tonight but with the normal curve I sent a midi signal from 1 to 115 (it's probably possible to go higher but I guess I am just scared I could damage it (though my fingers would probably be the first to break). With the light touch I can go from 1 to 127 with the same strength and Ivory sings very nicely (well, not at 127, it's a harsh sound like on a real piano) and within the limits of my technical skills I can get a very progressive crescendo from as soft as possible (midi value 1). The value 1 is obtained when you play so softly that you have to overcome the "notch" resistance so as soft as it can be. I used a little software to read the midi values and the increase in value is very proportional to my "loudness intents".
To be honest I did try the user curve function but I would guess my technique isn't good enough for the software to produce a good evaluation.

btw, my yamaha P155 never ever went over 118 as a midi value so it could be either a problem with me or simply the fact that most keyboards never actually output 127.
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2103954 - 06/17/13 05:04 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
ThatWasBrilliant Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Chicago, IL
Is the issue that very light touch produces no sound? If so, have you tried adjusting the "Minimum Touch" virtual technician setting? I just read through the post mentioned by Enthusiast, and no-one there seems to have mentioned this setting either, but I wonder if it could be a possible solution for people having trouble playing pp (as well as messing with velocity curves potentially). I'm interested to know the results, since I'm still considering purchasing a CA65.

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#2103956 - 06/17/13 05:11 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Well, with a light touch curve higher velocity values coming from the sensors are 'earlier' mapped to max values than with normal / heavier curves.

So if you hit the key with - let's say - 112 in strength , the output value it produces may be mapped to something like 123. Hitting 115 could be mapped to 126 and from 116 and up you may all get 127 output values. So in fact you don't have to use the same amount of strength to get the highest velocity values as with a normal curve, but the 'real' value coming of the sensor registering you force is in fact still the same as before (= lower). So in short your 'ceiling' is still 115 , but gradually mapped to 127.

Conclusion is it may better match your strength and playing style , but it limits the total dynamic range somewhat (e.g. 115 steps instead of 127).

What interests me is if it is possible for a skilled piano player with not too fragile / small hands to get roughly the whole range (0 ~ 127) out of the GF keybed with a normal touch curve - preferably a true linear curve. And then I mean with a human playing style going up to ffff, where you would expect the velocities to hit somewhere in the high 20's (125 / 126 /127). Not forced hammering a key with all the force and swing of the arm you can muster in a way that you would normally never play in a piece in the loudest passages.

Why care ? I'm currently fiddling with the curves on my VPC as well and run into roughly the same range of input velocities. Although I must say playing ppp on the VPC is very easy ; big plus there for the new Kawai !! I was simply wondering if moving up one step further in keybed quality (RM3 -> GF) would change anything or keep me in the same dynamic range (up until about 115 too, playing ppp ~ ffff with a normal curve).

To get back to the user curve for the CA; it helps if you warm your fingers up a little and then start the curve 'listener' and very carefully us one finger on a key to go from no sound gradually (!) to as hard as you can muster. Then stop and let the analyses do it's thing. Practice on the effort of taking enough time to carefully and gradually increase your touch from nothing (silent keypress) to as forceful as you can. Don't hurry in between the notes; take your time. After a few takes , the results might be more to your liking. You can try it with sound OFF or ON - which suits you better - but keep in mind your volume setting and the change of the sound will influence your next touch a lot and may work disadvantageous for the curve. Perhaps a very fine gritted dynamic sound source like pianoteq will help getting it right with "playing in" the user curve.

Cheers, J

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#2103960 - 06/17/13 05:16 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
ThatWasBrilliant, the minimum touch is set by default to 1.
And you are right to still consider the CA-65, it's a very good instrument and I enjoy it very much even without the American D (actually, due to my hands problems, I would say the CA-65 is even too attractive and I have a hard time staying away from it). And since the hardware is responsive from the lowest touch I guess if Kawai ever consider the current behavior to be faulty they will probably fix it with a software update (this being said, under a certain velocity threshold, a real piano is also silent).
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- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2103963 - 06/17/13 05:28 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
JFP, correct me if I am wrong but provided you get the full range of values from the piano using your full range of velocities (by that I mean, getting the value 1 with your softest touch and the value 127 when engaging your whole body) then I would guess you get what you need and it can easily be fine tuned in your software to get what you feel to be the correct behavior in between.
We have no real way to know if "normal" is more correct or less linear than "light" or "hard". What I mean (and obviously values are pure fantasy) is the fact that one curve (possibly linear) might consider 1 to be the hammer traveling at 1 inch per second and 127 to be it traveling at 100 inches per second to be normal while soft would be 1 inch per second for 1 and 90 inches per seconds for 127, both being possibly fully linear in between) Sorry if it doesn't make much sense, it's clear in my mind but it might be way beyond my linguistic abilities to express it clearly smile

btw, if I understand you correctly, do you say that the VPC1 also roughly top at 115 ? (oh, and I also can say that with the keyboard used as a midi controller, it very easy to remain under 10 even for an unskilled player like me so I guess a good player could easily play a software instrument ppp with the grand feel action)

Thanks for your suggestions for the user curve setup. I will try them tomorrow (it's the night here and my piano is over my neighbor's bedroom. The keybed is very silent but I still prefer not doing this at night out of respect smile )


Edited by Jean-Luc (06/17/13 05:38 PM)
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2103965 - 06/17/13 05:42 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Thank you for all your replies. From my (tiny) experience with CA95 I'd say that piano behaviour is not good enough when trying pp passages. Or, perhaps, bad behaviour is for CA93, and then Kawai should fix that model. I don't know what is the best answer, but playing soft passages on CA95 drop too many notes for my style. I'll wait for other models to fix it or perhaps a software update and your opinions about that.

Thank you again.
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Kawai CA95

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#2103976 - 06/17/13 05:57 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jean-Luc

btw, if I understand you correctly, do you say that the VPC1 also roughly top at 115 ?


Well, "My" VPC goes up till c.a. 115 ~ 117 with playing up as forceful as I can. Being a classically trained pianist (although in a far away past) and having enough muscle strength, technique and quite big hands. If I 'artificially' mistreat a key by lifting my arm way up in the air and letting it forcefully fall down on the key with much strength (and speed) I may get +120 on one note while hurting my finger. No way I can reach that while playing and also no way to get up until 127 without using the light touch curve (which maps incoming values to 127 much earlier on).

So my question is actually quite simple - I wonder if ALL Kawai wooden keybed actions (RM3+ / GF) respond in that way. If so , moving up to a GF won't change a thing and I'd rather stick to the VPC and tweak the curves some more (hopefully with Mac editor in the future). By the way it's good to know that the GF let's you play very ppp with a software piano, despite some people having a little trouble playing very soft with the internal sound engine. Keeps the CA still in the race as an alternative option. (To all potential VPC interests: don't worry - the VPC is fantastic and keys are great. I'm just overly picky / sensitive and try to get it exactly right for my own hands and are therefor in limbo between further tweaking - which is why the VPC has a touch curve editor in the end - or a 'dirty' fix by going RM3 -> GF if feasible).

Wonder what the user curve trials for your CA will bring. Hope it works for you to get a better grip on some of the internal sounds.

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#2104245 - 06/18/13 08:16 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
So JFP, after several tries with the user curve, I can send midi values from 1 to 127 but the internal sound still doesn't react to the softest touch.
Apparently, the softest ton I can get with the internal sound engine is when I send a midi value of 20 (not sending to the piano but when I press the key and the value sent is 20 - roughly since my technique is of course not good enough to assure that I press all the values under 20)
Edit 2: it seems I can produce a tone from the internal engine when I send a midi value of around 4 but I can't do it reliably - when I play that softly I miss notes more often than not - to play without missing notes it seems I really need to be around 20 as the lower limit (it might very well once again have to do with my technique)


Edited by Jean-Luc (06/18/13 08:43 AM)
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2104272 - 06/18/13 09:19 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Jean-Luc, due to patent issues, previous generation Kawai instruments would always produce a sound - even when pressing keys very, very gently.

Many customers complained that this was unrealistic compared to the behaviour of an acoustic piano.

Fortunately, the patent expired and as a result more modern Kawai DPs no longer produce a sound when pressing keys very, very gently.

I believe this is the realistic behaviour, and not a problem.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2104285 - 06/18/13 09:48 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
KawaiJames smile I do not see it at all as a problem since as I mentioned earlier in this post, it is indeed the behavior of a real piano (if the hammer doesn't get enough momentum to reach the strings, obviously nothing will happen). I only answered to the question asked and confirmed that, while the internal sound engine cut under a certain threshold (maybe too high for certain users but I can't confirm that due to my inexperience), there is no problem with the hardware and it indeed send a midi velocity value when the keys are pressed as softly as possible (for people who are curious to check that, just select an organ and depress the key as softly as you can and when you overcome the little notch you will hear a very soft sound).
I guess, if the threshold (sound/no sound) is too high for too many users who can't get the pianissimo they would like, it will be addressed by kawai either with a software update (since it's not a hardware limitation as demonstrated) or in the next generation.
Btw, I like my CA-65 wink
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2104288 - 06/18/13 09:54 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Jean-Luc
Btw, I like my CA-65 wink


That's what we like to hear. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2104291 - 06/18/13 10:00 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
BTW, a little off-topic (or not) anecdote. How many time did I practice a piece very softly on my P155 and when I arrived and played on the (rather out of tune) upright of the music school to discover to my utter dismay that half the notes I was playing didn't sound because the piano didn't even notice I was tickling it wink
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- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2104299 - 06/18/13 10:17 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Kawai James]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Jean-Luc, due to patent issues, previous generation Kawai instruments would always produce a sound - even when pressing keys very, very gently.

Many customers complained that this was unrealistic compared to the behaviour of an acoustic piano.

Fortunately, the patent expired and as a result more modern Kawai DPs no longer produce a sound when pressing keys very, very gently.

I believe this is the realistic behaviour, and not a problem.


This is exactly the kind of thing I was suspecting as this discussion has come up several times. The optimal piano would play arbitrarily quietly with ease, but acoustics are not optimal in this sense. It's quite difficult to play very, very quiet on many acoustics. Some digitals are actually easier in this way. There is a sense in which the digitals are better, but it's less realistic and can cause problems when you move to an acoustic (that move is already problematic because acoustics are so much louder and resonate more than most digitals).

I assume this is a setting that can be tweaked or disabled (it is on software pianos, for example).


Edited by gvfarns (06/18/13 10:18 AM)

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#2104466 - 06/18/13 03:46 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Kawai James]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Jean-Luc, due to patent issues, previous generation Kawai instruments would always produce a sound - even when pressing keys very, very gently.

Many customers complained that this was unrealistic compared to the behaviour of an acoustic piano.

Fortunately, the patent expired and as a result more modern Kawai DPs no longer produce a sound when pressing keys very, very gently.

I believe this is the realistic behaviour, and not a problem.
x


I think that is not exactly the problem. CA[63|93] always produced a sound until that was fixed in software. My CA93 produces no sound if your touch is very soft. But problem with CA95 is, as pointed by other users in this thread, a question of thresold.

I expose my opinion after many hours playing CA93. I'd like a subtler thresold for CA95.


Edited by Brometeo (06/18/13 03:47 PM)
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Kawai CA95

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#2104530 - 06/18/13 05:17 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9051
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Brometeo, I believe this is the purpose of the 'Minimum Touch' Virtual Technician setting.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2105341 - 06/20/13 12:36 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Kawai James]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1732
Is the 'Minimum Touch' Virtual Technician setting adjustable?

When controlling a violin sound, for example, you do not want a hammer-action at all, you want the equivalent of a realistic bow-action.
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Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2105379 - 06/20/13 02:34 PM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Yes, the "Minimum Touch" can be adjusted from 1 to 20. I haven't noticed a huge difference between the settings but my technique is very limited so maybe a more apt player with a subtler touch would feel the difference more than I do.
I have to say that when you get used to the CA-65 you miss less and less notes and while I would like the threshold of the "1" value to be a bit lower (meaning sounding with a softer touch than currently) I must say that the current behavior force you to be a bit more disciplined and after a while you start to be able to play right at the threshold, which is certainly a nice skill to develop for the time you have to play on an acoustic piano where obviously no adjustment is possible smile
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- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2105540 - 06/21/13 01:28 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1732
If the '1' setting is too high a threshold for controlling the hammer action type of onset of a piano sound, then it will be even more so for 'bowing a violin' frown

Perhaps there ought to be a '0' setting for a zero threshold? It may not be difficult to do with a firmware update, since the CA63/93 or earlier Kawai products may already have had the zero threshold setting cool
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2105575 - 06/21/13 04:37 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: doremi]
Brometeo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
Originally Posted By: doremi

Perhaps there ought to be a '0' setting for a zero threshold? It may not be difficult to do with a firmware update, since the CA63/93 or earlier Kawai products may already have had the zero threshold setting cool


CA63/93 have not zero threshold. If your touch is very subtle no sound is produced. Problem is that CA65/95 is not tunable for that same sensitivity.
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Kawai CA95

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#2105579 - 06/21/13 05:09 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Doremi, I imagine when you are talking about a violin sound, you mean an external source (software instrument or midi module) ? If so you don't have to worry, midi values are sent from the softest touch. Also, apart from the pianos, all other instruments on the CA-65 play at the softest possible touch.
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- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2105621 - 06/21/13 08:24 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1732
Ah, so the CA63/65/93/95 keys do produce MIDI values 0, 1, 2, 3, ... , 127 and the threshold for the CA63/93/65/95 internal piano sound is created in the sound generating software?

There will be a threshold for the violin sound too, but it will probably be much lower than the threshold for the piano sound. The threshold for a sax will perhaps be in-between the 2 thresholds, but I am guessing here.

In any case, zero threshold is not natural, but it would make ppp playing easier for all sounds. I would not mind at all if this non-natural option was available for all sounds, including zero threshold option for piano sound.
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2105623 - 06/21/13 08:31 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Brometeo]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Doremi, in midi, 0 is always no sound since it's the value of the key when not depressed. But yes, the CA-65 send all the midi values starting from 1 up to 127. "The limitation" is for the internal piano sound only
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2105667 - 06/21/13 10:03 AM Re: Kawai CA[65|95] touch [Re: Jean-Luc]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1732
Oh, I know that MIDI value 0 means key not depressed and no sound. I just start counting at 0, i.e. the start of the MIDI value range.

The internal piano sound has a non-zero threshold of the MIDI value of say, 20 for the CA65/95 no sound up to and including 20, and 10 for the CA63/93 no sound up to and including 10. The MIDI values 20 or 10 are too high for some people, but cannot be adjusted further down. (I have assumed the MIDI value numbers by way of example only, I don't have the CA63/93/65/95)

This down adjustment seems to me a mere matter of setting a parameter in the sound generating software of the internal piano sounds. Hence, I suggested a zero threshold option where only MIDI value 0 generates no sound, but MIDI value 1 (and up) generates sound.

This would make ppp playing easier (although non-natural).

Edit: All other acoustic sounds have natural thresholds too, e.g. you have to bow or blow minimally to sound a violin or sax, respectively. But for keyboard emulation purposes, you could similarly set a non-natural zero threshold for easier ppp playing.
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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