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Since my last report on the Stuart 2.2, I have played some very fine Schimmel K230 and K280's with tunable agraifes. The sound was very entrancing. The action regulation was equal to the Stuart. It took my playing skill to another level like the Stuart. After critically listening to dozens of Stuart recordings under many venues, I still can not accept the harsh sound. The strings and scaling is a problem, unrefined. I have debated the issue with Wayne Stuart for months, but he is firmly in favor of Modern 21st century music with a strong bite,(like from a Pit Bull dog). He feels bell like tones with complex tuned harmonics called for by much of the classical repetoire is Old Fashioned, 19th century.

Last month I played a rebuilt Steinway D that was a shock. Light action, even scale and tone from top to bottom. I simply could not believe it possible. After decades of disappointments in Steinways, I found one of those rare snowflakes that sings with expression like some of the finest hand made German pianos.

apparently there is a AUD300,000 Stuart piano at the expo in Shanghai, anybody checked it out yet?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/shanghai-world-expo/13/

I played it at the factory before it went to Shanghai. It is quite an instrument, even by normal Stuart & Sons standards. The power, clarity and tone were astonishing.

Regards
Chris

The recorded sound was harsh, not the actual sound of the piano. I have played and listened in concert to many Stuart pianos, and the sound (under skilled minds and fingers) is anything but harsh. This is one piano where the pianist has to take time to search for the sound he/she wants - it's all there if you look for it. Too many pianists are more concerned with the notes and how to play them rather than the sound which gets to the listener.

My experience is totally the opposite. When you say the strings are a problem, I have no idea what you mean. The scaling on my and other Stuart pianos I have played is quite even throughout the range, and I have no problem with the sound of any of the strings, especially with the 102 note pianos which test the limits of piano and human technology.

Wayne Stuart has certainly built a piano which is ideal for 21st century music, but your use of the phrase 'pit bull dog' is way off the mark. In practice, the classical repertoire can be revitalised and freshened in a way that other pianos cannot get close to. My view is that the 'complex tuned harmonics' are simply an excuse for murky sounds, particularly in the bass, and that if the essential clarity and power of the Stuart piano is correctly and expertly harnessed (and it needs to be) then the 'classical repertoire' takes on a totally new meaning which many people believe gets closer to the sound that the composer really had in his/her mind as distinct from the sound they were forced to use in practice. Remember, Beethoven, Chopin and Liszt did not write for a Steinway, therefore could not have had that sound (and by extension the sound of any other Steinway 'clone', i.e. all other 'modern' pianos) in their mind when they wrote their music, so 'complex tuned harmonics' as I intimated above are totally irrelevant for their and much other classical and romantic repertoire.

Regards
Chris

Oh my God I played one today in Brisbane at a piano dealers.

I just bought me new (second hand) piano and the Stuart was up beside the desk so while he was doing my paperwork and I just sat down and started to run through my scales on it - if I had known it was so prestigious I would have paid much more attention to it. I did notice that the wood was matt and that it had 4 pedals though. I am now kicking myself <sigh>

Anyway need to start a new thread about my new C5 thats being delivered on Monday - YAY

Michelle

Their sound is amazing. I thought the price was even higher than that. I've never heard one in person, but a Stuart & Sons has been on my dream list since I first heard recordings of them.

I am hoping to try Stuart pianos at Hurstwood Farm this summer. As you see from my user name I play, and am a huge fan of 19th century Erard, and I hope that the Stuart might give me something of the tonal variety which I find in old (some would say obsolete) instruments. I'm sorry to say that I think that the Steinway model followed by German makers and then everyone else compromised a huge amount on characterful sound. Whilst the modern sound is so much more 'perfect', polished etc and the instruments more stable and reliable, I just find the sound one-dimensional now that the earlier sound has become my benchmark. The Erard (and other instruments I hear on recordings) has a freedom of sound and a vocal quality and which has little to do with long sustain, but everything to do with the initial attack of the note akin to a vocal consonant or string bow and distinctive timbre in each register .. it feels as if it 'lifts' into the tenor range from the bass and so on up. In the voice and stringed instruments this adds interest and is often thrilling .. so it is with the Erard. I simply never hear this on the 20th century style instrument and I find myself imagining what I am missing!. Fingers crossed for the Stuart!!!! Oh, and I see no reason why pianos should be boring black .. I suspect a cheapness measure in World War I Germany ... maybe??? Bring back Art case!

I managed to play a Stuart and Sons today at Boyds piano shop in Brisbane! Gorgeous tone! The sound is rich, mellow, and complex. The action (as far as I can tell) is very smooth and comfortable to play on. The exotic wood veneer is especially stunning to look at. The piano shop also has a Grotrian and several Yamaha's, but Stuart and Sons is definitely my favourite.

They are wonderful. I think they haven't penetrated the market because they don't build high numbers of pianos, really. The cost is around the same as Fazioli I think.

I don't think they've built much more than 100 instruments even. They are absolutely stunning instruments.

I would love to try one. I have not found one to try.

I first heard the Stuart & Sons piano on a recording by Michael Kieran Harvey of Carl Vine's piano music. On the CD, he played Sonata No.1 on a Steinway, and Sonata No.2 on a Stuart & Sons, and the contrast was striking - the purity of the Stuart's tone at all dynamic levels, and its raw power seems ideally suited to Vine's uncompromising piano writing.

But I've also heard Beethoven and Chopin played on a Stuart, and it seems to me that there's no reason why they shouldn't sound great on it either. One might have to mentally adjust, just as you would if listening to Chopin played on a Pleyel (which after all was Chopin's instrument). I'd love to have a Stuart in my mansion (when - and if - I get a mansion ).

There are only one or two in the whole of North America. One is in a NYC recording studio.

Heard only very good things - never seen one.

A "hobby project" if one may say - hats off....

However...

It takes MANY, many pianos to build to work out the 'quirks'

There's is a maturation process for any manufacturer that can only happen over time - building a number of prototypes, test them extensively and see how they perform under stress later...

Building a few super-expensive pianos begs the question how much a manufacturer of such product actually brings to market that's not already there.

Incrementally small gains [if that..] at the expense of HUGE cost are IMHO not what is the challenge of the industry today.

Building a superb quality piano at affordable cost, *is*

Still, hats off to anybody making the effort!

Norbert

I agree with you 100%, Norbert!

The other side of that is that expensive pianos are much more likely to disappoint. If you expect something to be perfect, the best it can do is meet your expectations, and it may not do that. If you expect it to be lousy, the worst it can do is meet your expectations. The rest of the time, it will beat them!

I have spoken with Wayne Stewart over email many times. Enough that I would consider him an "internet friend" at this point in time. He has made it very clear to me that his sales and marketing goals are very different from the average piano maker. He said that he was aiming to sell his pianos directly to the people who could truly understand them and appreciate them. Even the idea of opening retail outlets around the world was not something he was seeing as a priority. He was more interested in maintaining a controlled reputation and a close knit clientele, all of whom had their heads screwed on right. So, if you want the best piano currently available in the world, go to Australia and buy one. Wayne has discussed the details of action and sound board, bridge, bridge agraffe details to the point that I even know how many grams each agraffe weighs. His actions are all Tokiwa with Abel hammers (in the instrument's standard presentation) so there is nothing special about them. They feel as they do for two reasons. He has removed inertia by removing all lead and going to rare earth magnets for balance and the shear volume and response of his instruments is sure to make any action feel better for psychological reasons even if for none other. And, let's not forget, Wayne's no fool. He understands action geometry and doesn't make mistakes.

Wayne Stewart is a brilliant man to have taken such a small group of people and such a small budget and a strong will to do what he thought was right at any price and turned out a magical new musical technology that no other maker on Earth has succeeded in producing since Cristofori.

Thank you. We have.

I’m afraid this shows that you know little if anything about Stuart & Sons or, in fact, about contemporary niche market piano making. Stuart has been systematically studying and designing pianos for more than forty years. Your description of this study and application of the craft as a ‘hobby project’ is totally wrong and, with respect, demeaning to the many talented and extraordinarily technically and musically qualified people who have been involved in this project for many years.

Pianos have been a continuum for over 300 years and it is unnecessary to reinvent the wheel every time a new instrument is made. The first Stuart & Sons concert grand, as was the first Stephen Paulello concert grand, were very complex and significant works and demonstrate the skills, understanding and philosophy of those makers. It was totally unnecessary for them to build umpteen pianos just to get the function right. They got it right first time, and continue to get it right each and every time. If you don’t believe me, listen to Gerard Willem’s recordings of the Beethoven sonatas and concertos. The majority of those award-winning recordings used Stuart & Sons piano #1 – i.e the first grand piano Stuart ever made. This is also the piano seen in the DVD of the Emperor Concerto. This piano is still in superb condition (I played it a couple of weeks ago) and, interestingly, has just been sold to a private buyer. Piano makers have to know their craft if they are to muster the wherewithal to build only a handful of instruments in their lives. An amateur will be undone by the process. The Stuart factory has employed up to 15 people – hardly a hobby exercise.

See above.

I would like to see what basis you have for making this generalist and rather pointless comment. Expensive is not equal to perfect - what indeed, is perfect? You pay a premium for something that is special not necessarily for perfection - something that most cannot afford but only carp about. People seek out Stuart & Sons and indeed Stephen Paulello as they want to know about their philosophy. They buy their products (if they choose to) not because they are expensive but because they like them and identify with the maker’s vision. Affordability is not the question nor a matter for speculation. If we all wanted the same standardised stuff the world would be insufferable. People who seek niche piano makers, and there are very few to seek, do so for their own reasons.

Standardisation has done more to destroy interest and enthusiasm for the acoustic piano than anything else. If a product is degraded by ever reducing production costs and increasing pressure for profit margins, it’s no wonder why most of the current global production is unremarkable and without provenance.
It would be fair to say that most so called high end pianos in the world today are essentially mass produced and cost no more than one third of their full retail price to build. This is most certainly not the case for Stuart & Paulello and intelligent buyers know this and are prepared for it. The cost of hand built pianos in such high cost countries is bound to be significant. These makers are not and cannot be there for all and sundry. They are, by definition, special and as such, should and do focus their energies to where it’s most appreciated.

Stuart & Sons and Stephen Paulello are the real contemporary piano makers of our time seeking to advance its form and function rather than churn out outdated and inferior products.

Regards
Chris

Norbert,

You make two points and neither is necessarily true.

First, with the right background, education, and design experience, one can build a great piano the first time. This is particularly true today when computer aided design can let one see a weakness in a design before the first product is ever built.

With piano, there are stages in manufacturing when one can review and amend a design, particularly when you are dealing with limited numbers. There is no reason to go through many issues with your finished product, unless you are learning as you go, which many manufacturers do. It is not necessary though.

Secondly, in a high end niche market, I doubt that Wayne Stuart has any worry about what is already there. His pianos are different enough from everything else on the market that he IS truly bringing something new to the marketplace.

I admit that I have never played these pianos, but have spoken to Wayne by phone and by email over the years and I admire his tenacious design work.

My 2 cents,

No, I do not think so. They are making pianos that will rarely be played, and only be heard in recordings and seen in photos and videos. They might as well be computer mash-ups, as far as their influence on the music industry goes.

The real action is in the mass market producers who are striving to make better pianos at affordable prices. That is where the true advancement is today.

This strikes me as a false dichotomy.