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#2104069 - 06/17/13 09:32 PM Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!?
Ezra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
Hi all. I am NOT a piano technician, but I had a conversation with one today (whom I plan to utilize for the work) but figured I'd get input from a wider range of experts.

I have just purchased a Yamaha U30 (52") with disklavier. Since I live in an apartment that gets dry and hot, I'd like to *ideally* have D-C system installed. However, my technician suggested that while the D-C would be ideal given my room climate, he'll need to spend some time looking at the best option to install it with no risk to disklavier electronics.

Obviously, he is going to do that in person when the piano is delivered shortly.

In the meantime though, I am reading online... any suggestions from an expert who may have installed this in a similar setup in an upright with electronics? Or, plan B--is there something else i can do (besides getting a room humidifier, etc) so help stabilize humidity?

Thanks.

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#2104082 - 06/17/13 10:07 PM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: Ezra]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1104
Loc: PA
It sounds like you have a very responsible and thoughtful tech.

There is a version of the D-C system that installs between the backposts on the back of the piano. But, they are considerably more expensive than the version that is installed inside the piano.
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
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#2104086 - 06/17/13 10:11 PM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: Ezra]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: Ezra
Hi all. I am NOT a piano technician, but I had a conversation with one today (whom I plan to utilize for the work) but figured I'd get input from a wider range of experts.

I have just purchased a Yamaha U30 (52") with disklavier. Since I live in an apartment that gets dry and hot, I'd like to *ideally* have D-C system installed. However, my technician suggested that while the D-C would be ideal given my room climate, he'll need to spend some time looking at the best option to install it with no risk to disklavier electronics.

Obviously, he is going to do that in person when the piano is delivered shortly.

In the meantime though, I am reading online... any suggestions from an expert who may have installed this in a similar setup in an upright with electronics? Or, plan B--is there something else i can do (besides getting a room humidifier, etc) so help stabilize humidity?

Thanks.


Well, as far as I know, if it's a U30, it's a gray market Yamaha. These pianos were produced specifically for the Japanese market, and the wood used in these pianos was seasoned accordingly, meaning the piano might not fare well in New York's drier climate. Yamaha strongly discourages North American customers from purchasing these pianos. You can verify that this is a gray market piano by entering the serial number here: http://www.yamaha.com/ussub/pianos/SerialNumberlookup.aspx. After confirmation, I would contact the seller and cancel the sale, if I were you.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2104138 - 06/17/13 11:49 PM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: beethoven986]
Ezra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: beethoven986

Well, as far as I know, if it's a U30, it's a gray market Yamaha.


Hi. I sincerely appreciate your input (as I do from all PW forum members), but can we please not go off-topic in this thread vis-a-vis installing a D_C system in an upright with disklavier? Thank you.

- Ezra

PS Gray market... eh, much ado about nothing in this case. As a total aside though, I will go off topic in this postscript only since you brought it up as an interesting point... I am aware it is "gray market" and it doesn't bother me. While I've dealt with "gray market" high-end camera equipment (you think pianos are pricey? Try spending $7,000 for a hunk of glass the size of a large soda can! and then another $5k on the camera body! ), it has never overly concerned me. Now, I realize that one might think piano wood is different than photo equipment-- well, yes and no in my naive opinion. If this piano were from 1960, I'd be very concerned. shocked But this one is from 1989.

I am NOT a technician, as I have stated, just a layperson smokin , yet I've read as much about pianos as can be expected. The whole issue with "wood specially made for that area of the world blah blah blah..." is no longer true, imho. (Beyond the marketing/sales hype to scare customers; but I'm not buying new anyway) That was true in the 1960s when Yamaha first started importing pianos into the US and were unaware of the dryness in *some parts* of the North America (by the way, NY has similar average annual humidity as Hamamatsu which is where the U line is manufactured (thankfully not in their plant in Indonesia or China). The quality control in Hamamatsu is so ridiculously high based on what a Yamaha rep told me at a trade show last year (in addition to my reading) when I begun sniffing around. Of course, may have been more sales hype. whome

If I were Arthur Rubinstein I *might* care (or not, since I'd be using a Steinway, but he preferred a Hamburg Steinway mfrd in Germany anyway over the New York D thumb ), but I'm just an avg adult beginner buying it for my son, who has far more talent than me. Still, I want an excellent piano for the money.

Further, Rick Jones Piano also sells U30BL by Yamaha (not that I bought it from him nor endorsing him) for $6500 without disklavier. RJ is a very reputable dealer -- I doubt he would risk damaging his reputation (and offering the 10 yr warranty) on numerous U30s if he thought they'd end up duds in the NorthEast. But I could be wrong.

Bottom line though is I had a technician look at the piano: it is in mint condition; genuine Yamaha hammers, dampers, strings and perfect soundboard; in beautiful condition; disklavier DKC-850; $4000 for a mint U3/U30 in this shape. I'll take my chances on the 'special wood'. smile


Edited by Ezra (06/17/13 11:51 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#2104141 - 06/17/13 11:57 PM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: Ezra]
David, Las Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 211
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
I do not recommend installing a humidity control system into any piano that has a electronic player system. I'm not an elec. engineer but putting water and low voltage electricity together in a small area might be damage waiting to happen. Metal parts will be susceptible to rust. Accelerate that and you will have trouble getting player system replacement parts in the future. If Beethoven986 is right about it being a gray market piano I think the power supply is open to the air and without a box housing and it is located right in the area that will fit the water vessel. I would look into the "between the posts" system that dianokeeper suggests. Beethoven..... thanks for the link!
_________________________
David Chadwick RPT
Las Vegas, Nevada
1923 Steinway "M"
1931 Mason Hamlin AA

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#2104144 - 06/18/13 12:05 AM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: daniokeeper]
Ezra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: daniokeeper
It sounds like you have a very responsible and thoughtful tech.

There is a version of the D-C system that installs between the backposts on the back of the piano. But, they are considerably more expensive than the version that is installed inside the piano.


I am going to look into the backpost system and ask my piano tech (also a certified installer by D-C and one of their "Stars designate most experienced/trained installers")... thanks!

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#2104146 - 06/18/13 12:06 AM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: David, Las Vegas]
Ezra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: David, Las Vegas
I do not recommend installing a humidity control system into any piano that has a electronic player system.


Thanks for the advice, David. I think I agree. Going to stay away from putting any such system inside the piano. I will monitor the humidity, etc.... but will also look into the external D-C system...


Edited by Ezra (06/18/13 12:07 AM)

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#2104167 - 06/18/13 01:23 AM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: Ezra]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3360
Originally Posted By: Ezra

PS Gray market... eh, much ado about nothing in this case... The whole issue with "wood specially made for that area of the world blah blah blah..." is no longer true, imho. (Beyond the marketing/sales hype to scare customers; but I'm not buying new anyway)


During the manufacturing process (furniture, pianos, etc), wood is dried down to a certain EMC (equilibrium moisture content), and the extent to which it is dried depends on what kind of environment the product is expected to be in. Therefore, when a piano that was manufactured specifically for a high-humidity climate is moved to a "dry and hot" climate, loose tuning pins, cracked soundboards and bridges, and failing glue joints are all a possibility. While the chances of running into problems are mitigated somewhat if you have a humidity system, it is nevertheless a concern. Since you seem to accept that risk, fine.


Originally Posted By: Ezra
That was true in the 1960s when Yamaha first started importing pianos into the US and were unaware of the dryness in *some parts* of the North America


Yes, and since then, all Yamaha pianos that were manufactured for North America were built with wood seasoned for dry climates. Yours is not one of these pianos, however, which is my point....

Originally Posted By: Ezra
(by the way, NY has similar average annual humidity as Hamamatsu which is where the U line is manufactured (thankfully not in their plant in Indonesia or China).


The only thing that matters is indoor humidity. NY gets cold in the winter, which necessitates indoor heating. This lowers the indoor relative humidity to single digits, sometimes!



As for the topic at hand, if you get a Dampp-Chaser system, you will almost certainly need the exterior (backside) system, BSV8PS-SB. This is due to the fact that the U30 is more or less the same as a U3, which requires this system, regardless of whether or not there is a Disklavier installed.



_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2104231 - 06/18/13 06:42 AM Re: Installing a Dampp-Chaser in Yamaha U30 with disklavier?!? [Re: beethoven986]
Ezra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: beethoven986

As for the topic at hand, if you get a Dampp-Chaser system, you will almost certainly need the exterior (backside) system, BSV8PS-SB. This is due to the fact that the U30 is more or less the same as a U3, which requires this system, regardless of whether or not there is a Disklavier installed.



Very helpful. Thank you.

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