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#2104522 - 06/18/13 05:08 PM What should be done to take care of a new concert grand?
Ozgur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 99
Loc: Turkey
Hello everyone! We have just recieved our Steinway D for our new concert hall and very excited about it. For some reasons and conditions, we couldn't select our piano and they delivered us a brand new, unopened one. After the set-up, I played some intermezzi of Brahms, the piano sounds very beautiful and very easy to control despite of the light feel of the mechanism.

As a pianist, I have never been through the process of getting a brand new concert piano ready for performances. I heard that you should take it easy for two weeks or so, not play very loud and use the pedals carefully and so on...

What are the details for this "getting the piano ready" process? For example: Regularly playing chromatic scale including every key? and so on... It is essential for us to know.

Please post smile

Thanks!
_________________________
Ozgur Unaldi, pianist

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#2104534 - 06/18/13 05:21 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1207
Loc: Québec, Canada
When you say "set-up" Do you mean taken out of the crate and put on it's legs? Or did you have a tech come and prep the piano?

If you do not have a tech, find one very quickly. He or she should be able to direct you further.

If you do have a tech, he or she was not very helpful at helping you.

If you can afford a new D, I hope you have budgeted for maintenance costs.

All the best.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2104540 - 06/18/13 05:27 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Ozgur,

The best thing is to play the piano as often as possible and use its entire range. Don't bang on it, but the full range of normal performance dynamics won't harm it at all. It isn't that fragile, after all.

How well was the piano prepped before shipment? A very thorough regulation, hammer mating check, etc., will enhance not only the playability of the piano, it will also help insure its longevity. It is an important detail since it may not have received very detailed treatment.

Of course, after it has settled into its new environment, a concert level tuning is advised.

To get the longest life from the instrument, keep the humidity level of its environment very stable (40-50% RH). Keep it tuned, and in the first couple of years, four times each year is the minimum. Make sure that the regulation is checked and adjusted as needed, and that the voicing is touched up as needed.

Enjoy the new piano!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2104541 - 06/18/13 05:31 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 725
Loc: England
They will always take time to settle .... the tuning needs to stabilise, bushings need to wear themselves in etc etc. Just enjoy playing it without giving any thought about having to 'go easy'. The more it's played the quicker it will settle in and stabilise. I assume there will be a follow up technician to refine the regulation once it has bedded in, so the more it's played the better it will be for the technician to work the after sale follow up magic.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#2104549 - 06/18/13 05:53 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
You need to enlist a piano technician with experience working on Steinway pianos in institutional/concert venues and use only this technician. He or she should be put in charge of drafting a maintenance plan for the piano. Contact Steinway to see if they have any recommendations.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2104578 - 06/18/13 06:47 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Ozgur

As a pianist, I have never been through the process of getting a brand new concert piano ready for performances. I heard that you should take it easy for two weeks or so, not play very loud and use the pedals carefully and so on...



As a pianist, it should never be your job to get a concert piano ready for performance. Unless you want to train as a technician as well. Hiring a technician is the single most important thing you can do. He will tell you what else to do.
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#2104587 - 06/18/13 07:04 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21658
Loc: Oakland
1. Keep it tuned.
2. Keep it regulated.
3. Voice it as necessary.
4. Take care of any mechanical problems that arise.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2104597 - 06/18/13 07:15 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Keep it away from the park and the square in Istanbul.

Find a great tech. A Hamburg-D is nothing to mess around with. Since it was purchased for a new concert hall, make sure there are the funds available to care for it.

You, as a pianist, just enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2104628 - 06/18/13 08:21 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1765
Loc: London, England
Do you have a cover for it? Where is it to be kept when not in use? It is a good idea to build a box in a convenient corner offstage that the piano can be wheeled into and locked away so that it is protected from all the other activities in the hall when the piano isn't being used.

Keep it away from any heat source or direct sunlight at all times. Make sure all stage hands and stage managers understand this.
One concert hall architect put a long heat source along the front of the stage. Directly under where the piano goes for a concerto. Of course it has yo be switched off. People who are supposed to know generally don't understand the need to be careful of these things on a way that they used to.

It's maintenance and tuning depends on its amount of use. It should have a days servicing at least once a year, more frequently if it is used more than a few times a week. It should be tuned for every public concert and be in tune for all rehearsals for those concerts. This may mean two tunings on the day of a concert particularly of the piano hasn't been used for a few weeks because it may need a pitch correction if it hasn't been tuned for those few weeks.

Contracts from concert agencies and promoters often specify tuning requirements for their concerts.

Select with care a reputable and conscientious technician and draw up a contract where only that tuner or a tuner specified by them is allowed to tune and maintain the piano.

It probably goes without saying to not let the piano be used as an ordinary common practice or teaching instrument.


Edited by rxd (06/19/13 12:46 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2104661 - 06/18/13 11:00 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Some of my colleagues refer to what you have just gotten as a "piano kit". If you want a real, world-class instrument that will blow the lid off most other concert instruments, do the following:

Throw away the hammers, shanks and flanges. Replace with Carbon Fiber /Composite shanks and flanges tipped with ultra-premium Classical West hammers -- the world's best and most expensive.

Install the Wapin bridge modification for greater tonal focus and power, giving the ability of the piano to whisper to the back of any hall as well as filling it with a roar.

Since the strings need to be loosened to install Wapin, anyway, just throw away the bass strings and replace them with premium, custom hand wound bass strings that don't have the swaging deformation and have an underwrap of stainless spring steel.

Throw away the brass capstans and replace with low-inertia/low-friction anodized aluminum capstans.

Have a skilled technician finalize the work and make the whole into an amazing instrument that will be the envy of other halls and an amazement to every artist that plays it.

We all understand the difference between "stock" and "custom" with cars and golf clubs and even houses. The time has come to realize that the idea that the best piano comes from the factory is nothing more than factory propaganda. Those who are acting on this realization are enjoying some mind-blowingly amazing instruments.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2104683 - 06/19/13 12:17 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: kpembrook]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21658
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Some of my colleagues refer to what you have just gotten as a "piano kit". If you want a real, world-class instrument that will blow the lid off most other concert instruments, do the following:

Throw away the hammers, shanks and flanges. Replace with Carbon Fiber /Composite shanks and flanges tipped with ultra-premium Classical West hammers -- the world's best and most expensive.

Install the Wapin bridge modification for greater tonal focus and power, giving the ability of the piano to whisper to the back of any hall as well as filling it with a roar.

Since the strings need to be loosened to install Wapin, anyway, just throw away the bass strings and replace them with premium, custom hand wound bass strings that don't have the swaging deformation and have an underwrap of stainless spring steel.

Throw away the brass capstans and replace with low-inertia/low-friction anodized aluminum capstans.

Have a skilled technician finalize the work and make the whole into an amazing instrument that will be the envy of other halls and an amazement to every artist that plays it.

We all understand the difference between "stock" and "custom" with cars and golf clubs and even houses. The time has come to realize that the idea that the best piano comes from the factory is nothing more than factory propaganda. Those who are acting on this realization are enjoying some mind-blowingly amazing instruments.


I think Keith should allow the people who are paying for all this work to play and hear the Hamburg Steinway D that you have done this with next to a stock Hamburg Steinway D. Since money is no object, he should have the two pianos set up for the purpose of such a comparison already.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2104691 - 06/19/13 12:30 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2189
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Engage several skilled piano technicians to inspect the piano. Provide them with the schedule of rehearsal and performance dates. Provide them with anticipated conditions regarding climate control, stage lighting, storage space, and handling personnel.

Ask them to provide you with a description of current condition, any preparation work needed now, and a schedule of service needed to ready the piano for use on the anticipated dates.

When you find a technician who has success in meeting the needs of performing pianists; make the piano his/her responsibility on a long term contract. Find a technician who SOLVES problems and does not make very many. Find a technician who can put a piano in tune that stays that way when played vigorously.

Changing technicians just to try someone new out once you have the situation operating well is a recipe for worry. Some pianists will not be happy with a piano that another pianist finds wonderful. So the administration cannot be leaving the judgement of quality of technical work to the performers alone.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2104693 - 06/19/13 12:51 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Hey, guys, back to reality.
Ozgur doesn't live in Manhattan or LA where there is a large pool of incredibly talented, knowledgeable and experienced concert technicians to draw on. We are talking Turkey. There is probably not a handful of such techs in the whole region of the eastern Mediterranean, never mind one country.
The piano can be happy if it gets attention from one person who really knows his way around a Hamburg D.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#2104701 - 06/19/13 01:32 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21658
Loc: Oakland
In fact, the piano can be happy if it gets attention from one person who is familiar with a grand piano and willing to read and understand Steinway's literature and care for it in an attentive, respectful, and cautious manner.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2104747 - 06/19/13 05:19 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1765
Loc: London, England
The manufacturer will send out one of their technicians once a year. That will be perhaps the best way of making sure it stays in good condition. Well worth the expense and for peace of mind.

Of course nobody would, but if you change the specifications of the piano as suggested earlier in this thread, the guarantee will be voided and the manufacturer will rapidly lose interest. I can't imagine anybody being that silly.

How about the tuner who tuned your previous piano? A suitable candidate can be sent to the factory for specialist training.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2104762 - 06/19/13 07:04 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Europe
The local Steinway dealer in Istanbul should be able to help you out. They might even have a technician trained at the factory in Hamburg. Ask the dealer about this.
I usually tune the concert pianos every second month and then for each concert.
Once or twice a year I do a bigger tech service.
How are the RH periods during the year?

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#2104779 - 06/19/13 08:12 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
If you're serious about having a true concert piano, it should be tuned weekly.
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

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#2104784 - 06/19/13 08:36 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Supply]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Supply
Hey, guys, back to reality.
We are talking Turkey. There is probably not a handful of such techs in the whole region of the eastern Mediterranean, never mind one country.

Turkey isn't on the other side of the moon, Supply. It's a real country, with people who give concerts, go to concerts, play pianos and tune pianos.

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#2104812 - 06/19/13 10:17 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1518
Loc: New York
Sorry I cannot agree with Mr. kpenbrook. I would not rebuild a brand new model D which is not even broken in yet. My advice is to play this piano frequently, keep it tuned and regulated and most of all keep it in correct humidity and temperature. It will surely be a most excellent concert instrument as it comes from the factory.

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#2104815 - 06/19/13 10:26 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: LJC]
AndyJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: LJC
Sorry I cannot agree with Mr. kpenbrook. I would not rebuild a brand new model D which is not even broken in yet. My advice is to play this piano frequently, keep it tuned and regulated and most of all keep it in correct humidity and temperature. It will surely be a most excellent concert instrument as it comes from the factory.

I thought kpenbrook's reply was a sarcastic joke.

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#2104821 - 06/19/13 10:43 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Ozgur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 99
Loc: Turkey
Wow! I am so happy to be in this forum, thank to each one of you who writes with great care, respect your helpful posts!

I both agree with Supply and BrainCramp. Turkey is not NY or LA, but in this country we have very few but well trained technicians who regularly tuned Steinway D grands for Argerich, Barenboim and some other legends. I am sure the whole region of eastern Mediterranean has quiet enough number of technicians. Of course I wish there were that many technicians as they have in LA or NY.

If we can regulate the humidity and temperature conditions, we will keep it in the hall, covered. If we cannot, there is a special room built for it just next to the stage but out of the hall walls and possibly with a little different air conditions. In that room, regulating the room conditions is easier than the hall. But it will be mostly used in the hall and quite often. Ofcourse we won't open it for any practice reasons but only for concerts, concert rehearsals and recordings. This great instrument will always stay here, we won't lend or deliver it to anywhere.

That's right, I am a pianist and I should not get a piano ready while an expert should. Sorry for my English, I did not mean that I will personaly maintain it. I was just asked help to know what should be done.

When I said set-up, I meant only the "putting it on its legs".

I understood that we should call the dealer or find a quality expert who has a knowledge, love and experience for concert grands like Steinway D. And make a contract for a planned maintainance.

Kpembrook, thank you for your post! What you suggest is too extreme for our conditions and I should make a compare first before making a radical modification. If I visit you one day, I will be happy to play both a factory and custom of the same model. But I love our Steinway just the way it is now smile and will be happy to keep this quality for decades. Making it better is not in the priority now. But some conservatoirs in the world have plenty of Steinways, maybe they will be interested to give it a try.
_________________________
Ozgur Unaldi, pianist

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#2104866 - 06/19/13 12:25 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: AndyJ]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1766
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: AndyJ
Originally Posted By: LJC
Sorry I cannot agree with Mr. kpenbrook. I would not rebuild a brand new model D which is not even broken in yet. My advice is to play this piano frequently, keep it tuned and regulated and most of all keep it in correct humidity and temperature. It will surely be a most excellent concert instrument as it comes from the factory.


I thought kpenbrook's reply was a sarcastic joke.


Ok, kpenbrook, if this is sarcasm, then you are really good at it whome
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com/

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#2104880 - 06/19/13 01:11 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I read Mr. Akins' reply with absolute disbelief. But, in fact, there are those at PW who firmly believe that manufacturers are incapable of building fine pianos. It's the "anything you can do, I can do better" syndrome.

Sarcasm didn't even cross my mind, and if it were written with that intent, it is repugnant in reference to what was being asked by Mr. Unaldi.

I salute the staff of the new concert hall for selecting one of the greatest concert pianos available.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2104917 - 06/19/13 02:48 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
AndyJ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 219
Loc: Near Dayton, Ohio USA
Skimming Mr. Akins' post, I thought I was reading someone's compendium of over-the-top advice that might be found on PW. Only after reading other members' responses to it did I read the message more closely. Now I remember seeing similar advice from the same source in other messages.

-Andy

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#2104956 - 06/19/13 05:04 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
In defense of Mr. Akins, his suggestions and philosophy do have merit, even if somewhat unorthodox. Perhaps the OP will keep them in mind down the road. After all, concert instruments used for performances are often due for restringing and new actions (hammers, at the very least) after 5-15 years, depending on amount of use.




_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2104994 - 06/19/13 06:30 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Defense?

It's a brand new Hamburg-D and Mr. Akins' suggestion was to gut it!

That hardly answers questions about how to care for a new concert grand.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2105046 - 06/19/13 08:26 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty

It's a brand new Hamburg-D and Mr. Akins' suggestion was to gut it!


While I understand your point, I do believe it is an exaggeration to say that he suggested "gutting it". Now, I wasn't planning to dissect each of his recommendations, but I'm feeling somewhat pedantic, soooooo...:

Originally Posted By: Keith
Throw away the hammers, shanks and flanges. Replace with Carbon Fiber /Composite shanks and flanges tipped with ultra-premium Classical West hammers -- the world's best and most expensive.


This would have a few benefits: 1) shank/flange bushings are not affected by humidity, meaning the friction in them will be constant, which, in turn, results in a more consistent touch from note to note. 2) shanks have consistent stiffness, resulting in more even voicing. 3) greater shank stiffness increases power and sustain. OTOH, the Isaac hammers may not suit the tastes of a Hamburg owner, and techs over there may not be familiar with "voicing up" hammers in the manner these hammers would need to be voiced.

Originally Posted By: Keith
Install the Wapin bridge modification for greater tonal focus and power, giving the ability of the piano to whisper to the back of any hall as well as filling it with a roar.


Doing this is not a big deal (just time consuming), as it can be done without replacing the strings. Whether or not it is beneficial is a conversation for another time and place.

Originally Posted By: Keith
Since the strings need to be loosened to install Wapin, anyway, just throw away the bass strings and replace them with premium, custom hand wound bass strings that don't have the swaging deformation and have an underwrap of stainless spring steel.


I don't know who makes Steinway's bass strings, but in the case of NY Steinway, which uses Mapes, I have heard of people replacing these on new or nearly new instruments for the reasons Keith explained. The quality of bass strings has a tremendous impact on how well a piano can be tuned and voiced.

Originally Posted By: Keith
Throw away the brass capstans and replace with low-inertia/low-friction anodized aluminum capstans.


I don't really buy the "low-inertia" thing, since the hammer mass and action ratio are the biggest determinant of inertia in an action. However, having low friction capstans installed would make maintenance of the instrument easier, and they are not all that expensive. Same thing with the key pins, but installing WNG key pins is a pain in the butt, from what I hear.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2105082 - 06/19/13 09:51 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Unbelievable!

I weep for new Steinway-D's throughout the world.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2105109 - 06/19/13 10:28 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
Don't let an amatuer piano tuner touch it. Make sure he/she is well qualified.
"Well qualified" means he's been tuning forever and it's all he does. And you also have had other people who love his work and have used him for years and highly recommend him.
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2105119 - 06/19/13 10:45 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1518
Loc: New York
Every part that comes in the new Hamburg Steinway is excellent and does not need replacing. Replacing these parts on a new piano is the most foolish and self serving advice given to a new owner that I can imagine.

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#2105134 - 06/19/13 11:07 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Unbelievable!

I weep for new Steinway-D's throughout the world.


Marty, I'm not saying you have to agree with it... just pointing out the reasons why someone might. I'm not too keen on the idea, myself, if for no other reason that these mods would most certainly void the warranty.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2105140 - 06/19/13 11:22 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: beethoven986]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: beethoven986


Originally Posted By: Keith
Throw away the brass capstans and replace with low-inertia/low-friction anodized aluminum capstans.


I don't really buy the "low-inertia" thing, since the hammer mass and action ratio are the biggest determinant of inertia in an action. However, having low friction capstans installed would make maintenance of the instrument easier, and they are not all that expensive. Same thing with the key pins, but installing WNG key pins is a pain in the butt, from what I hear.


Thanks for the extensive, objective treatment of my comments.

Regarding the capstans, after having installed a number of sets, I can say from experience that they do make a worthwhile difference. For their modest cost, they offer significant bang for the buck.

I missed the OP's location. Clearly he has been given good advice for his particular situation by some of the other posters.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2105142 - 06/19/13 11:28 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Unbelievable!


You have clearly stated where the issue is. It's what you choose to believe.

I have not said that new S&S Ds are necessarily bad (although some of them are).

I have stated that they can be improved from good -- even quite good -- to world class instruments that will blow away the generic factory output.

I'm not offering opinion or something to "believe". I'm telling what I have accomplished with pianos from old to brand new. Neither am I alone in having done this kind of makeover on brand new instruments. For those who want "more" -- more is possible.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2105195 - 06/20/13 03:14 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: kpembrook]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1766
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Some of my colleagues refer to what you have just gotten as a "piano kit". If you want a real, world-class instrument that will blow the lid off most other concert instruments, do the following:

Throw away the hammers, shanks and flanges. Replace with Carbon Fiber /Composite shanks and flanges tipped with ultra-premium Classical West hammers -- the world's best and most expensive.

Install the Wapin bridge modification for greater tonal focus and power, giving the ability of the piano to whisper to the back of any hall as well as filling it with a roar.

Since the strings need to be loosened to install Wapin, anyway, just throw away the bass strings and replace them with premium, custom hand wound bass strings that don't have the swaging deformation and have an underwrap of stainless spring steel.

Throw away the brass capstans and replace with low-inertia/low-friction anodized aluminum capstans.

Have a skilled technician finalize the work and make the whole into an amazing instrument that will be the envy of other halls and an amazement to every artist that plays it.

We all understand the difference between "stock" and "custom" with cars and golf clubs and even houses. The time has come to realize that the idea that the best piano comes from the factory is nothing more than factory propaganda. Those who are acting on this realization are enjoying some mind-blowingly amazing instruments.



The context has to do with instruments that are capable of improvement. The author knows that some pianos were never made to play, but only to sell, and, consequently, cannot be improved upon. Many will remember the typical ca.1980 Memphis-made Aeolian spinet. So cheaply constructed in both parts and labor, some 30+ years later the cost of a service call alone can easily exceed piano FMV.

No doubt, better piano manufacturers believe their instruments to be the best that can be achieved given what they have in mind from the outset, and predicated upon available dollars to invest in research, development, production and distribution.

However, the reality is that the factory doesn't always produce "the best" - namely, what its instruments are truly capable of. Plans may look good on paper. Prototype may even be outstanding. But in the implementation thereof, issues unforeseen can ensue that require cost cutting measures. Older technology may be employed even when newer has been demonstrated to be better. Often, due to patent issues, newer technology may be either unobtainable or too expensive to use in the manufacturing process. Ultimately, the final product falls short of expectations. It is, however, released for retail sale.

Many of these instruments will be purchased. Subsequently, some will be disappointed with this or that. Techs - both dealer and factory - will scramble to address the problems: sometimes, successfully; other times, not.

With no resolution in sight, enter the independent piano technician. If the warranty is expired, or it does not cover the problems in question, options are set forth to ameliorate the situation.

Such need fuels a growing piano after-market.

Having said this, pianists should exercise due caution. Extensive changes such as those proposed may void the warranty. Moreover, should there come a time for re-sale, potential buyers might view these changes as producing a hybrid of sorts: Not necessarily a good thing in the view of some who may be thinking of their own chances at re-sale down the road. The possibility also exists that the proposed improvements, when effected, may not meet expectations.

Limited improvements to world class grand pianos have been accepted practice for years. Hammer replacement with Renner or others, being perhaps most commonplace. The extensive changes proposed are something else entirely.

We are not saying: "Don't do it!" The technician suggesting these things is of sterling reputation and sound acumen. We only urge Cautious Pianist to test the depth of the water before jumping in.




Edited by bkw58 (06/20/13 07:57 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com/

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#2105214 - 06/20/13 05:32 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1765
Loc: London, England
Well said, Bob.

Surprisingly often pianos with all the improvements hailed as the next breakthrough very quickly end up in a rehearsal studio somewhere and often the trusted old workhorse that it replaced is resurrected and brought back into service.

I've tuned some of them.

Established Manufacturers do make experimental design changes to pianos but keep them under observation in a rental fleet, for example and never publicise it or adopt it unless it proves itself over time and use.

Design changes are often merely different and not necessarily what real pianists are looking for.

Of course, anyone with the funds can purchase a designer piano. Many people do. Often more for bragging rights than anything else.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2105232 - 06/20/13 08:09 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: France
The wapin bridge modification adresses mostly the kind of unison tuning generally used, allowing the tone to be more open despite no energy dealing at time of unisoning (hence a non relaly tuned top of the spectra)

I heard a few excellent tunings but may be they represent 5% of the professionalm tuners.
As nobody seem to be able to find theoretical explanations on how the tuner adresses tone while tuning I understand thios is left as a work in progress - ore a hidden secret of the trade (while that is a little surprizing , after 200 years of piano building)


My hypothesis is that you get a similar tone enlighting or almost, just with appropriate unison tuning (plus a tuning that put the accent on natural resonance of the instrumenht( generlaly speaking)

I would even believe that more variability in tone is obtained without Wapîn or bridge agrafes , even if indeed the energy use allow less losses with those systems (or seem to).

ALso there is always a tone coloration that goess together with those modifications. less with Wapin probably (less mass).
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#2105269 - 06/20/13 10:02 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: kpembrook]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: kpembrook
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Unbelievable!


You have clearly stated where the issue is. It's what you choose to believe.

I have not said that new S&S Ds are necessarily bad (although some of them are).

I have stated that they can be improved from good -- even quite good -- to world class instruments that will blow away the generic factory output.

I'm not offering opinion or something to "believe". I'm telling what I have accomplished with pianos from old to brand new. Neither am I alone in having done this kind of makeover on brand new instruments. For those who want "more" -- more is possible.

What you have quoted from my post was not directed to you, it was in reference to another poster who came out in defense of your reply. I find any defense of your reply to the OP to be quite unbelievable.

Your technical suggestions/improvements were totally inappropriate answers to the question being asked by the OP. Basically, he was asking how to care for, and 'break-in,' a brand new, just out of the box, Hamburg-D. Your response was modification to a new instrument. Do you consider that to be an appropriate reply?

What if you wrote to a forum stating that you had just purchased a brand new Ferrari and asked for suggestions on how to treat the car during the break-in period? Would you believe someone who suggested that you should immediately change the wiring harness?

Instead of chiming in with your technical theories of potential alterations, it might serve the forum well if you would actually read, and comprehend, why the thread was authored and use your experience to actually answer the question being asked.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2105271 - 06/20/13 10:12 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Let me state that this thread has now become Truly Unbelievable!

Allow me to quote the very title of this thread:

"What should be done to take care of a new concert grand?"

What part of "take care of" don't you understand? Read the original post. How does a Wapin bridge or choice of action parts relate to playing chromatic scales?

I await some truly convoluted replies in an attempt at a cogent response.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2105283 - 06/20/13 10:43 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2189
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Marty,
Do you really think flogging posters with your demand that they keep to your exact interpretation of the post title worth the aggravation? The atmosphere of the forum becomes odiferous with bile if more than one complaining response is posted.

Keith's recipe is not the same I cook with-but it gains in energy if you flog it too much-and that takes us off topic.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2105289 - 06/20/13 10:52 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Let me state that this thread has now become Truly Unbelievable!

Allow me to quote the very title of this thread:

"What should be done to take care of a new concert grand?"

What part of "take care of" don't you understand? Read the original post. How does a Wapin bridge or choice of action parts relate to playing chromatic scales?

I await some truly convoluted replies in an attempt at a cogent response.



And allow me to quote from the actual original post:

"As a pianist, I have never been through the process of getting a brand new concert piano ready for performances.... What are the details for this "getting the piano ready" process?"

Taking the above quote at face falue, Keith's modifications are an appropriate response in that this is how he would ideally go about preparing a newly uncrated concert instrument for professional use. Further, you are not the forum police. You constantly attack, berate, and annoy others with whom you disagree. Actually... you aren't even a tech, either, and this is a forum for piano technicians and people who have questions for technicians. Therefore, you are not qualified to give technical advice. Zip it, already!
_________________________
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#2105294 - 06/20/13 11:02 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1952
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Ozgur
Wow! I am so happy to be in this forum, thank to each one of you who writes with great care, respect your helpful posts! ...

When I said set-up, I meant only the "putting it on its legs".

I understood that we should call the dealer or find a quality expert who has a knowledge, love and experience for concert grands like Steinway D. And make a contract for a planned maintainance.

Kpembrook, thank you for your post! What you suggest is too extreme for our conditions and I should make a compare first before making a radical modification. If I visit you one day, I will be happy to play both a factory and custom of the same model. But I love our Steinway just the way it is now smile and will be happy to keep this quality for decades. Making it better is not in the priority now. But some conservatoirs in the world have plenty of Steinways, maybe they will be interested to give it a try.


Insha'Allah!

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#2105298 - 06/20/13 11:15 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
No, I won't zip it.

The OP is not a tech and that should have been apparent to all who read his question. He was not asking for rebuilding advice, he was asking the most simple and basic of questions.

I was not the first to point out the oddity of Akins' response. It was read as being sarcastic, by others. Please read my reply after the assertion was made.

When I am attacked, I will respond.

Qualified? One does not need to be a member of the PTG to answer that basic questions posed by the OP. One does not even need to purchase an Associate Membership. If you can fault the advice I gave, I would like to hear your counter.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2105299 - 06/20/13 11:16 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
James Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 440
Loc: new york city
Originally Posted By: Ozgur
Hello everyone! We have just recieved our Steinway D for our new concert hall and very excited about it. For some reasons and conditions, we couldn't select our piano and they delivered us a brand new, unopened one. After the set-up, I played some intermezzi of Brahms, the piano sounds very beautiful and very easy to control despite of the light feel of the mechanism.

As a pianist, I have never been through the process of getting a brand new concert piano ready for performances. I heard that you should take it easy for two weeks or so, not play very loud and use the pedals carefully and so on...

What are the details for this "getting the piano ready" process? For example: Regularly playing chromatic scale including every key? and so on... It is essential for us to know.

Please post smile

Thanks!



Play away! The piano will benefit from being played, especially if it is receiving lots of attention from a skilled, qualified technician as it breaks in.

Be sure to get a thick padded cover for the D - and always cover the piano when it's not in use. I would also recommend that an expert measure the RH on the stage and the area where the piano will be stored. If it ever falls below 35% or goes above 55% I would install a dual-tank Dampp-Chaser humidity control system.

I would also install a fallboard lock, unless the security is extensive enough to obviate the need for it.

All pianos, especially new pianos, need extensive prep and touchup regulation as the parts break in. And with wooden parts, there will almost assuredly be a need to reregulate certain parameters over the first few years.

You need to find a technician that knows how to properly voice the strings to get the most energy into the soundboard. The strings also need to be leveled and hammers fitted properly for the best tone and sustain. The flanges need to be checked for consistent pinning - it's not unusual to have to repin an entire set of brand new hammer flanges, no matter who makes them.

We don't know how this piano was prepped or what kind of condition it was delivered in. But pro technicians that work on expensive instruments know that there is almost always something that can be improved or tricked out on any instrument, even without parts replacement.

Find a tech that understands the importance of this work, and make sure that it gets done. The sooner the piano is prepped the better it will be and the longer it will last.

And I agree about having it tuned regularly - especially if it's the same tech. Piano wire has a memory and it responds beautifully to consistency of tension. This also makes string voicing and string leveling more consistent.

Regarding Keith's suggestions, I can't recommend modifying a piano under a manufacturer's warranty, but I do agree that his proposed changes can often make a big difference with many pianos out there.
_________________________
Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/

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#2105311 - 06/20/13 11:42 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: USA
I hope they don't ban PW in Turkey because of this thread.

First a poster dissed that whole country's ability to tune a piano.

Then other posters attacked each other for giving Ozgur conflicting advice - assuming that Ozgur would blindly do anything he was told.

Guys, just because Ozgur is in a country we don't hear from very often doesn't mean he's a simpleton. He graciously thanked everyone for their advice; let's move on.

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#2105318 - 06/20/13 12:02 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21658
Loc: Oakland
I would not recommend a fallboard lock. If security is a problem, get a cover with locking rings and lock it that way.
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Semipro Tech

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#2105334 - 06/20/13 12:27 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: rxd]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1766
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: rxd
Well said, Bob.

Surprisingly often pianos with all the improvements hailed as the next breakthrough very quickly end up in a rehearsal studio somewhere and often the trusted old workhorse that it replaced is resurrected and brought back into service.

I've tuned some of them.

Established Manufacturers do make experimental design changes to pianos but keep them under observation in a rental fleet, for example and never publicise it or adopt it unless it proves itself over time and use.

Design changes are often merely different and not necessarily what real pianists are looking for.

Of course, anyone with the funds can purchase a designer piano. Many people do. Often more for bragging rights than anything else.



Thanks, rxd.

Having said all of that, I am still sitting here wondering how one could possibly improve upon a Fazioli. These instruments are as close to perfection as one can get. But really, no one has to improve on these. The manufacturer does it for himself.

What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

Piano care isn't effected in a vacuum. It is two-fold: Care for a new piano must involve proper maintenance of the instrument itself, but always - always - with the pianist's desires in view. If he or she wishes to change Abel hammers with Renner or vise versa; if an MBA installation is requested, who are we to argue? Our responsibility is to listen, advise, and consent. If, for some reason, we cannot, then we can simply bid adieu.


Edited by bkw58 (06/20/13 12:50 PM)
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com/

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#2105336 - 06/20/13 12:28 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1311
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty

What you have quoted from my post was not directed to you, it was in reference to another poster who came out in defense of your reply. I find any defense of your reply to the OP to be quite unbelievable.


My mistake. I should have read more carefully. I'm sorry.

Quote:

Your technical suggestions/improvements were totally inappropriate answers to the question being asked by the OP. Basically, he was asking how to care for, and 'break-in,' a brand new, just out of the box, Hamburg-D.


I didn't notice the OP's location. Obviously the technical resources available to him are not likely to be what are available elsewhere. I mentioned this oversight in a previous post.

Quote:

What if you wrote to a forum stating that you had just purchased a brand new Ferrari and asked for suggestions on how to treat the car during the break-in period? Would you believe someone who suggested that you should immediately change the wiring harness?


Two responses here . . .
1) Actually upgrading new cars is something that is understood in the automobile world -- unlike the piano world. People really do enhance their cars by throwing away the "stock" equipment. More common on lesser cars but also done on others. Also, even high-end auto manufacturers actually offer options -- rather than woodenly maintaining that the way they do it is the only way that it can be done, or is best for a given performance situation.

2) Comparing a S&S D to a Ferrari may be a bit of a stretch. They can indeed be fine instruments. OTOH, as one example of S&S factory train-wrecks, I can take you to a "D" in a university where the treble end of the long bridge is over the belly rail. From note 40 on down the piano sounds great. The upper half of the compass not so much . . .

Quote:

Instead of chiming in with your technical theories of potential alterations


I have not at any point offered a theory. I have spoken from a very much reality-oriented, success-based extensive amount of experience from my 50 years as an active piano technician (I got a young start). I've actually seen stuff and done stuff and along the way made a good number of piano owners happy when others hadn't. I stay young by being open to new ideas and realizing there is yet more to be learned.

Neither am I alone. I have a university tech. colleague who says this about his visits to New York with a faculty member to select a new "D" . "I just look for a loud one -- the rest can be fixed." He is the one from whom I got the term "piano kit" to refer to a factory-new S&S.

Quote:

... it might serve the forum well if you would actually read, and comprehend, why the thread was authored and use your experience to actually answer the question being asked.


Splendid advice. I'll try to do better.

Thanks for the time you invested in your post.


Edited by kpembrook (06/20/13 10:49 PM)
Edit Reason: Experience=50; not 60
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#2105395 - 06/20/13 03:26 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
A very valid point has been made that people all too often do not properly read the original post carefully in order to really understand the context and the question asked. They simply jump in and tell people what they want to tell them, without taking the time to perhaps put themselves into the situation of the poster..

Given the original question, quoted above by Beethoven, and the context: it is a pianist asking, and the instrument in question is a brand new Hamburg D, and the piano is located in Turkey, then yes, suggestions about action parts replacement and bridge modification are completely and totally out of place.

Suggesting anything which would result in an immediate voiding of a warranty of a $150,000+ brand new piano is really not helpful.
[where is that understatement emoticon when you really need it???]



_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#2105399 - 06/20/13 03:32 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: BrainCramp]
Ozgur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 99
Loc: Turkey
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
I hope they don't ban PW in Turkey because of this thread.

First a poster dissed that whole country's ability to tune a piano.

Then other posters attacked each other for giving Ozgur conflicting advice - assuming that Ozgur would blindly do anything he was told.

Guys, just because Ozgur is in a country we don't hear from very often doesn't mean he's a simpleton. He graciously thanked everyone for their advice; let's move on.



smile When they banned YouTube, the statistics showed that there were no changes in numbers of visits made to YouTube in Turkey, thanks to the alternative DNS options. After that, they cancelled the ban... Hopefully bans don't stop people.
_________________________
Ozgur Unaldi, pianist

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#2105415 - 06/20/13 04:04 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ozgur
smile When they banned YouTube, the statistics showed that there were no changes in numbers of visits made to YouTube in Turkey, thanks to the alternative DNS options. After that, they cancelled the ban... Hopefully bans don't stop people.

Ozgur, post a YouTube video of you and the new piano if you can! I'd love to see and hear it, especially since you play Brahms.

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#2105425 - 06/20/13 04:29 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: BrainCramp]
Ozgur Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 99
Loc: Turkey
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
Originally Posted By: Ozgur
smile When they banned YouTube, the statistics showed that there were no changes in numbers of visits made to YouTube in Turkey, thanks to the alternative DNS options. After that, they cancelled the ban... Hopefully bans don't stop people.

Ozgur, post a YouTube video of you and the new piano if you can! I'd love to see and hear it, especially since you play Brahms.



Thanks, I will when me and the s&s will be ready, will try to make it soon.
_________________________
Ozgur Unaldi, pianist

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#2105460 - 06/20/13 06:35 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: BDB]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: BDB
I would not recommend a fallboard lock. If security is a problem, get a cover with locking rings and lock it that way.


Yes fallboard locks are a problem in cas of fire, the notes cannot escape...
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2106011 - 06/21/13 11:39 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
Most Steinway concert grand complaints are due to an action desparetley in need of regulation! If the action sucks, trust me the piano isn't going to perform and sound as it should
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Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2106103 - 06/22/13 07:35 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Gary Fowler]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Gary Fowler
Most Steinway concert grand complaints are due to an action desparetley in need of regulation! If the action sucks, trust me the piano isn't going to perform and sound as it should

Really? - This is a very interesting and unusual concept.

Quote:
A very valid point has been made that people all too often do not properly read the original post carefully in order to really understand the context and the question asked. They simply jump in and tell people what they want to tell them, without taking the time to perhaps put themselves into the situation of the poster..
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2106128 - 06/22/13 09:31 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1952
Loc: Suffolk, England
Marty

I took Gary to mean that all new Steinways need regulation. After all they do not even bother to fit the legs - which is what this thread was all about!
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Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2106147 - 06/22/13 10:35 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1765
Loc: London, England
Ian, The OP is more than happy with the way the piano plays and is not complaining of badly fitted legs or regulation. This thread is about how to treat this piano during the "break in" period. It is American tooners who are suggesting it needs all this work.

I notice you are close to London England. Where are all these new Steinway D's that you have seen that need so much work and the legs don't fit???? Where do you guess this particular D in question was made???

I hope you are not perpetuating information that you have merely overheard and have no direct experience of?. Many toonerds perpetuate rumours that they have no direct experience of.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2106160 - 06/22/13 11:21 AM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Withindale Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 1952
Loc: Suffolk, England
Yes, rxd, I know, I've read the posts and was only tickling Marty's ribs. Did you see I quoted Ozgur writing about "putting the piano on its legs" before his gracious suggestion that some conservatories with pianos to spare might like to take Keith up on his proposals.

I am not sure if the piano is in Istanbul, where my mother grew up. She told me about going to hear Rubenstein and Solomon playing by the Bosphorous in summer recitals. I am sure she would have been delighted to have heard, and played, the new Hamburg D.

The piano would have come from New York when I first went to Turkey. There was a lot of American money around and I recall my uncle had a Studebaker.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2106270 - 06/22/13 02:43 PM Re: What should be done to take care of a new concert grand? [Re: Ozgur]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: France
What I often noticed when the legs are not tuned is that the casters are pointing in every direction.

I could suggest a "caster orientation kit" that allow the instrument religion. ys point the polar star, that have been recognized as the best orientation talion, tone wise.

Sorry to make humor, in the end the Op is lucky to be yet allowed to practice piano nd make music where in some other countries playing music is considered offense to religion.

I prefer to trust in humankind in that case, particularly young generations, but see to me lot of them will die before the society they wish will eventually arise.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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