Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum What should be done to take care of a new concert grand?

Wow! I am so happy to be in this forum, thank to each one of you who writes with great care, respect your helpful posts!

I both agree with Supply and BrainCramp. Turkey is not NY or LA, but in this country we have very few but well trained technicians who regularly tuned Steinway D grands for Argerich, Barenboim and some other legends. I am sure the whole region of eastern Mediterranean has quiet enough number of technicians. Of course I wish there were that many technicians as they have in LA or NY.

If we can regulate the humidity and temperature conditions, we will keep it in the hall, covered. If we cannot, there is a special room built for it just next to the stage but out of the hall walls and possibly with a little different air conditions. In that room, regulating the room conditions is easier than the hall. But it will be mostly used in the hall and quite often. Ofcourse we won't open it for any practice reasons but only for concerts, concert rehearsals and recordings. This great instrument will always stay here, we won't lend or deliver it to anywhere.

That's right, I am a pianist and I should not get a piano ready while an expert should. Sorry for my English, I did not mean that I will personaly maintain it. I was just asked help to know what should be done.

When I said set-up, I meant only the "putting it on its legs".

I understood that we should call the dealer or find a quality expert who has a knowledge, love and experience for concert grands like Steinway D. And make a contract for a planned maintainance.

Kpembrook, thank you for your post! What you suggest is too extreme for our conditions and I should make a compare first before making a radical modification. If I visit you one day, I will be happy to play both a factory and custom of the same model. But I love our Steinway just the way it is now and will be happy to keep this quality for decades. Making it better is not in the priority now. But some conservatoirs in the world have plenty of Steinways, maybe they will be interested to give it a try.

Ok, kpenbrook, if this is sarcasm, then you are really good at it

I read Mr. Akins' reply with absolute disbelief. But, in fact, there are those at PW who firmly believe that manufacturers are incapable of building fine pianos. It's the "anything you can do, I can do better" syndrome.

Sarcasm didn't even cross my mind, and if it were written with that intent, it is repugnant in reference to what was being asked by Mr. Unaldi.

I salute the staff of the new concert hall for selecting one of the greatest concert pianos available.

Skimming Mr. Akins' post, I thought I was reading someone's compendium of over-the-top advice that might be found on PW. Only after reading other members' responses to it did I read the message more closely. Now I remember seeing similar advice from the same source in other messages.

-Andy

In defense of Mr. Akins, his suggestions and philosophy do have merit, even if somewhat unorthodox. Perhaps the OP will keep them in mind down the road. After all, concert instruments used for performances are often due for restringing and new actions (hammers, at the very least) after 5-15 years, depending on amount of use.

Defense?

It's a brand new Hamburg-D and Mr. Akins' suggestion was to gut it!

That hardly answers questions about how to care for a new concert grand.

While I understand your point, I do believe it is an exaggeration to say that he suggested "gutting it". Now, I wasn't planning to dissect each of his recommendations, but I'm feeling somewhat pedantic, soooooo...:



This would have a few benefits: 1) shank/flange bushings are not affected by humidity, meaning the friction in them will be constant, which, in turn, results in a more consistent touch from note to note. 2) shanks have consistent stiffness, resulting in more even voicing. 3) greater shank stiffness increases power and sustain. OTOH, the Isaac hammers may not suit the tastes of a Hamburg owner, and techs over there may not be familiar with "voicing up" hammers in the manner these hammers would need to be voiced.



Doing this is not a big deal (just time consuming), as it can be done without replacing the strings. Whether or not it is beneficial is a conversation for another time and place.



I don't know who makes Steinway's bass strings, but in the case of NY Steinway, which uses Mapes, I have heard of people replacing these on new or nearly new instruments for the reasons Keith explained. The quality of bass strings has a tremendous impact on how well a piano can be tuned and voiced.



I don't really buy the "low-inertia" thing, since the hammer mass and action ratio are the biggest determinant of inertia in an action. However, having low friction capstans installed would make maintenance of the instrument easier, and they are not all that expensive. Same thing with the key pins, but installing WNG key pins is a pain in the butt, from what I hear.

Unbelievable!

I weep for new Steinway-D's throughout the world.

Don't let an amatuer piano tuner touch it. Make sure he/she is well qualified.
"Well qualified" means he's been tuning forever and it's all he does. And you also have had other people who love his work and have used him for years and highly recommend him.

Every part that comes in the new Hamburg Steinway is excellent and does not need replacing. Replacing these parts on a new piano is the most foolish and self serving advice given to a new owner that I can imagine.

Marty, I'm not saying you have to agree with it... just pointing out the reasons why someone might. I'm not too keen on the idea, myself, if for no other reason that these mods would most certainly void the warranty.

Thanks for the extensive, objective treatment of my comments.

Regarding the capstans, after having installed a number of sets, I can say from experience that they do make a worthwhile difference. For their modest cost, they offer significant bang for the buck.

I missed the OP's location. Clearly he has been given good advice for his particular situation by some of the other posters.

You have clearly stated where the issue is. It's what you choose to believe.

I have not said that new S&S Ds are necessarily bad (although some of them are).

I have stated that they can be improved from good -- even quite good -- to world class instruments that will blow away the generic factory output.

I'm not offering opinion or something to "believe". I'm telling what I have accomplished with pianos from old to brand new. Neither am I alone in having done this kind of makeover on brand new instruments. For those who want "more" -- more is possible.

The context has to do with instruments that are capable of improvement. The author knows that some pianos were never made to play, but only to sell, and, consequently, cannot be improved upon. Many will remember the typical ca.1980 Memphis-made Aeolian spinet. So cheaply constructed in both parts and labor, some 30+ years later the cost of a service call alone can easily exceed piano FMV.

No doubt, better piano manufacturers believe their instruments to be the best that can be achieved given what they have in mind from the outset, and predicated upon available dollars to invest in research, development, production and distribution.

However, the reality is that the factory doesn't always produce "the best" - namely, what its instruments are truly capable of. Plans may look good on paper. Prototype may even be outstanding. But in the implementation thereof, issues unforeseen can ensue that require cost cutting measures. Older technology may be employed even when newer has been demonstrated to be better. Often, due to patent issues, newer technology may be either unobtainable or too expensive to use in the manufacturing process. Ultimately, the final product falls short of expectations. It is, however, released for retail sale.

Many of these instruments will be purchased. Subsequently, some will be disappointed with this or that. Techs - both dealer and factory - will scramble to address the problems: sometimes, successfully; other times, not.

With no resolution in sight, enter the independent piano technician. If the warranty is expired, or it does not cover the problems in question, options are set forth to ameliorate the situation.

Such need fuels a growing piano after-market.

Having said this, pianists should exercise due caution. Extensive changes such as those proposed may void the warranty. Moreover, should there come a time for re-sale, potential buyers might view these changes as producing a hybrid of sorts: Not necessarily a good thing in the view of some who may be thinking of their own chances at re-sale down the road. The possibility also exists that the proposed improvements, when effected, may not meet expectations.

Limited improvements to world class grand pianos have been accepted practice for years. Hammer replacement with Renner or others, being perhaps most commonplace. The extensive changes proposed are something else entirely.

We are not saying: "Don't do it!" The technician suggesting these things is of sterling reputation and sound acumen. We only urge Cautious Pianist to test the depth of the water before jumping in.

Well said, Bob.

Surprisingly often pianos with all the improvements hailed as the next breakthrough very quickly end up in a rehearsal studio somewhere and often the trusted old workhorse that it replaced is resurrected and brought back into service.

I've tuned some of them.

Established Manufacturers do make experimental design changes to pianos but keep them under observation in a rental fleet, for example and never publicise it or adopt it unless it proves itself over time and use.

Design changes are often merely different and not necessarily what real pianists are looking for.

Of course, anyone with the funds can purchase a designer piano. Many people do. Often more for bragging rights than anything else.

The wapin bridge modification adresses mostly the kind of unison tuning generally used, allowing the tone to be more open despite no energy dealing at time of unisoning (hence a non relaly tuned top of the spectra)

I heard a few excellent tunings but may be they represent 5% of the professionalm tuners.
As nobody seem to be able to find theoretical explanations on how the tuner adresses tone while tuning I understand thios is left as a work in progress - ore a hidden secret of the trade (while that is a little surprizing , after 200 years of piano building)


My hypothesis is that you get a similar tone enlighting or almost, just with appropriate unison tuning (plus a tuning that put the accent on natural resonance of the instrumenht( generlaly speaking)

I would even believe that more variability in tone is obtained without Wapîn or bridge agrafes , even if indeed the energy use allow less losses with those systems (or seem to).

ALso there is always a tone coloration that goess together with those modifications. less with Wapin probably (less mass).

What you have quoted from my post was not directed to you, it was in reference to another poster who came out in defense of your reply. I find any defense of your reply to the OP to be quite unbelievable.

Your technical suggestions/improvements were totally inappropriate answers to the question being asked by the OP. Basically, he was asking how to care for, and 'break-in,' a brand new, just out of the box, Hamburg-D. Your response was modification to a new instrument. Do you consider that to be an appropriate reply?

What if you wrote to a forum stating that you had just purchased a brand new Ferrari and asked for suggestions on how to treat the car during the break-in period? Would you believe someone who suggested that you should immediately change the wiring harness?

Instead of chiming in with your technical theories of potential alterations, it might serve the forum well if you would actually read, and comprehend, why the thread was authored and use your experience to actually answer the question being asked.

Let me state that this thread has now become Truly Unbelievable!

Allow me to quote the very title of this thread:

"What should be done to take care of a new concert grand?"

What part of "take care of" don't you understand? Read the original post. How does a Wapin bridge or choice of action parts relate to playing chromatic scales?

I await some truly convoluted replies in an attempt at a cogent response.

Marty,
Do you really think flogging posters with your demand that they keep to your exact interpretation of the post title worth the aggravation? The atmosphere of the forum becomes odiferous with bile if more than one complaining response is posted.

Keith's recipe is not the same I cook with-but it gains in energy if you flog it too much-and that takes us off topic.

And allow me to quote from the actual original post:

"As a pianist, I have never been through the process of getting a brand new concert piano ready for performances.... What are the details for this "getting the piano ready" process?"

Taking the above quote at face falue, Keith's modifications are an appropriate response in that this is how he would ideally go about preparing a newly uncrated concert instrument for professional use. Further, you are not the forum police. You constantly attack, berate, and annoy others with whom you disagree. Actually... you aren't even a tech, either, and this is a forum for piano technicians and people who have questions for technicians. Therefore, you are not qualified to give technical advice. Zip it, already!