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As I have mentioned before, I am a member in the board of our local conservatory.

As you can figure out, here in Mexico, with all it's social and economic ups & downs, a Conservatory mainly funded by government grants and public donations is always struggling to survive. That is the main reason and purpose of the Board of Trustees, help the conservatory get funds for its operation and continuous growth.

It provides education to more than 600 students ranging from elementary education all the way to bachelor degrees on various music specialities, and most of the students come from very low income families.

The "Conservatorio de Musica y Artes de Celaya" does a very important social purpose of giving opportunities to young talents that, if it werent by the Conservatory, wouldn't have too many other options.

As you can imagine, the tuition fees are very small (around $100 USD for Bachelor degree, representing about 20% of the real cost per student). It is totally a social project that has been around now for 22 years in the heart of Mexico, and now is being recognized as one of the best 4 conservatories in the Country, compiting with others such as the Mexico City Music conservatory, among others.

We even have students that have earned scholarships at Juliard, and every time an important musician is in the vicinity, we try to bring him for Master Classes. We have a girl that has won a place to be with Yo-Yo Ma in Mexico City for a Cello Master Class, and now she was selected for a tour in Germany with the Youth Mexico City Symphonic Orchestra.

Building of a new study and practice cubicles wing just finished, and now we have 15 new cubicles ready to be used by students.

I am in charge of a very specific project to provide 15 new pianos for this cubicles, and I will appreciate all sugestions on the pianos that we can request. (Asking never hurts).

With all experts in this forum I know there are many of you that can sugest specific models and brands. (Sorry guys, we cannot afford Bosies, S&S, or such, but maybe we can get Yamahas or other similar).

We will request grants from different organizations and donations from diverse donnors so we can get this project done.

Hey! we even accept donations!!!

Ready for your comments.

Are these instruments intended to be used by pianists or by singers and other instrumentalists?

Rudy,

I sounds like a remarkable program and I congratulate you on the success.

Keeping budget in mind, and still fulfilling the need to provide quality pianos, the piano that immediately popped into mind is the 52" Cunningham.

May I suggest that you give a call directly to Rich Galassini. You are probably familiar with him from Piano World. You could send him a PM or reach him at - (215) 991-0834.

I wish you well in your search.

Regards,

I think that you should see what you can get in an inexpensive Asian studio upright. Chances are longevity will not be a big issue no matter what you buy. You will probably want to replace them after 20 years no matter what, if they get typical music school use, so save your money and budget for that.

Try to work with a local dealer for a deal that could be very good for both of you. Inspect what is available, looking for good, clean workmanship. You can read the piano buyer guide in the ad at the side of the page for some more guidance. But trust your eyes and ears.

What you need are institutional grade instruments, preferably with a distributor formally assigned to your region (sorry Rich) in case of warranty support.

There are institutional grade instruments from many manufacturers at moderate prices. Here is a list from the top of my head of appropriate makes & models that would be available in the US. It won't be a complete list, but it's a start, and you may be able to cross pianos off the list based upon price & availability.

Seiler: ED126, ED132
Hailun: HU-1P, HU-5P, HU-7, 116
Albert Weber: AW121, AW131
Knabe: WKV 121, WKV 131, WMV 247
Pramberger: JP-125, JP-131
Yamaha: U1, U3, P22
Kawai: K5, K6, UST-9

Some of these models have music desks that are more sturdy and better suited for practice rooms which could be an additional consideration. "School" models have long desks: Hailun 116, Yamaha P22, Kawai UST-9, Knabe WMV 247. Some others have "Conductor" desks: Hailun HU-7 (newest), Knabe WKV121/131, AW121/131, U5, K8, etc.

Look for who distributes in Mexico for Hailun, Samick, Young Chang, Yamaha & Kawai
Seiler, Knabe & Pramberger are Samick owned.
Albert Weber is upper level from Young Chang.
Hailun is Hailun.

While I have additional personal opinions about these instruments, I believe all are musically suitable, predictably serviceable & sturdy enough for a good music program. My best advice is to budget for proper service, especially tuning in the first year + regulation in the first few years. This matters more than even upgrading models...example, a P22 with good service will fare better than a U3 at twice the price but with inadequate service.

IMO, Yamaha or Kawai, in the models Sam mentioned.

I know Mexican pricing is different than pricing in the U.S., so I really don't have a clue how far your money can go.

I don't suppose that you can afford the Walter studio. I have played the Yamaha U-1 and I often play a Yamaha P-22 and a Kawai UST in my church. While they are good pianos, I like the Walter better.

Rodolfo already stated that the price of Yamaha would be a stretch.

From what I see today being made as institutional pianos. I think the Charles Walter 1500 is pretty hard to beat for materials that will last with heavy use and climate issues if any.

I definitely agree if they are in budget. We know these models and have sold them both new & used to institutions with great results. Florida State University purchased a few from us used and they are the favorites among all the practice rooms.

They are a bargain but much higher than most of my list. Maybe you can be the first "All Charles R. Walter" School.

Wouldn't the drawback of the Cunningham be the same for Walters? They're great pianos but would they fit the criteria?

Wowww!! Great and interesting responses in such a short time.

I love PianoWorld!!!

I will be responding one by one, and thank you all for your help and for sharing your experience and knowledge.

These instruments are to be used by both pianists and instrumentalists, including singers.

What I have noticed is that pianists "chase" the good pianos all the time. So when a piano gets out of tune or is damaged, students move to next piano.

We have 29 pianos, including 4 grands, and most of them are donations. And some of them with more than 40, 50 or 60 years old. Hey, there is one that is around 90 years old. Can you imagine?

There are 3 verticals and one grand less than 2 years old. Yamahas, but not sure the models. I will find out and post them tomorrow.

Marty,

I have read great things about Cunninghams, and of course I have read Rich' great comments on Piano World.

I don't know how much shipping into Mexico would increase cost and still make it affordable.

I will get in touch with Rich for sure.

For a conservatoire, you can afford to compromise a little on sound, but you need a good strong action.

Not knowing anything about the Mexican market, my default choice would be the large Kawai uprights, the K6 or K8. The ABS mechanism is very strong and reliable, and the tone of these instruments is probably about the best you'll get at the price.

I don't know anything about Charles Walter, because I'm in the UK, but I've heard that they are also excellent pianos.

If you have more money to spend per piano, then you might want to think about Steinway or something in that price range. Steinway verticals are excellent - certainly the ones I have played here in the UK have been beautiful pianos. The fact is though, that any piano will require a lot of work after a few years in a conservatory, and what you want is a piano that will remain playable, and have good tuning stability over time, and that you will be able to either sell or have reconditioned when the time comes. Hence I say Kawai, Yamaha, Steinway, Boston, which have all been proven in the UK as pretty much unbeatable institutional pianos.

That said, it's 10 years since I graduated and the piano market has changed dramatically in that time. There is more choice and a greater range of budget instruments all at varying (from high to low) quality, so it's a good time to buy.

Also don't rule out remanufactured grand and upright pianos - they can represent a huge saving over a new instrument and be of exceptional quality depending on who did the work. On this board there are afew exceptional rebuilders posting, and they will be happy to advise you, some of them are even selling new pianos which they have selected based on their experience as highly regarded technicians.

Rudy, I guess the next question is, how much money will be allocated for tuning and maintenance?

Having said that, I would suggest at the very least to look into buying the hybrid pianos from Yamaha since they have an 'acoustic' action and never need to be tuned. I remember back to my college days when the pianos in the practice rooms were less than desirable.

You might save money in the long run having to forgo tuning costs.

Yamaha NU1 - upright piano hybrid

AvantGrand series ... N1, N2, N3

Rudy, Dave Horne has a point about the Yamaha hybrid pianos. They would never need tuning or voicing, but I don't know if they are sturdy enough to stand up to conservatory use. Check with your local Yamaha dealer.

As for considering the Charles Walter Model 1500 vertical, Walter Piano makes a concerted effort to sell their pianos to churches and other non-profits. In other words, Walter offers hefty discounts to non-profit institutions. A call or e-mail to the Walter factory in Elkhart, Indiana would be worth your while.

Good luck.

Hy Rudy,

Congratulations on your excellent and worthwhile program and on raising the endowment to upgrade your practice facilities.

Everybody's recommendations are ones I agree with. I tend to favor the Yamaha uprights in particular. In the schools I've taught at, these are usually the most stable, hold up well under heavy wear, and play and sound very well. If you can't afford any of the Walters, I would try these out.

Joe's advice about remanufactured pianos is also a very good idea and one that institutions tend to overlook. You could get some excellent quality instrument at better prices than new.

The advice about the hybrid pianos has one drawback. Most of these actions do not allow the student to influence the tone quality or color of the sound produced. I don't let any of my advancing students practice on instruments that lack this capability as it is an essential ability the advanced student must learn to control at the instrument. If the action also does not perfectly mimic that of an acoustic action, then the student's keystroke timing will get messed up, making it very difficult to control the sound on an acoustic instrument when they finally play one. If you decide to go that route, just make sure that any hybrid action mimics that of an acoustic instrument perfectly.

Both Yamaha and Kawai have regional distributors in GDL and DF respectively. Don't overlook or underestimate the promotional value of exposure to your 600 students and the people who come to see their performances. I know several recording school owners up here in alta california who have received very sweet deals on electronic music equipment for the price of having a banner in the lobby. The fact that both companies make well thought of institutional grade pianos should make that an easy track to follow.

From a "trip" to Celaya via google maps it seems to me a lovely town. I already know somewhat that part of México but my wife hasn't seen the mummies or el Alhondiga yet so I owe her a trip to León, Guanajuato etc. It's clear to me now that I need to add time for a stop in Celaya.

Kurt

One more point regarding the Yamaha hybrids. The N1 and N2 models, while having a slightly larger footprint than an upright piano, use a grand piano action.

I own a N3 which looks like a small baby grand. I'm giving very serious thought of buying a second piano, the NU1, the upright action Yamaha hybrid. I personally find an upright action more difficult to play than a grand action. I prefer having the wind against me when I practice instead of having the wind at my back so to speak.