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#2106988 - 06/23/13 10:38 PM How good are Perzina grand pianos?
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
I have not played the piano for many years due to chronic pain in my left hand. However, intensive physical therapy and anti-inflammatory drug regimens have finally paid off. My left hand is just about back to normal. My doctor says I can start off with practicing no more than 1 hour per day for 3-4 week, and afterwards increase it to 2 hours per day if I suffer no ill effects. Last weekend I played my niece's Sauter Omega for a few minutes - what an instrument, even if my playing was rusty as heck!

Thus I am toying with the idea of buying a 6-7 ft. grand piano for my own personal use. New Sauters, Grotrians, Steinways, Steingraebers, etc. are out of the question - way beyond my budget. If pressed, I could afford something like an Estonia L190 or L210, a Mason & Hamlin AA, or a Schimmel K189 -something under $60,000 - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money if I didn't have to.

One of the cheaper brands that interests me is Perzina. I know that their vertical pianos are considered great value for the money, but I haven't found much information on their grands. There is no Perzina dealer in the Richmond area, so I haven't been able to check them out for myself. If they are as good a bargain as their uprights, driving a few hours to the nearest dealer would be worth the trip.

Do any of you guys know anything about Perzina grands? Is their touch, tone, and build quality close to that of Estonias, Mason & Hamlins, Schimmels, etc. of the same size? Or are they no better than typical mass-produced pianos?

P.S. - the following is a quote from "Piano Buyer":
"A new line of Perzina grand pianos was introduced in 2011, designed and manufactured by Perzina in cooperation with a major European manufacturer."

Does anybody know who this "major European manufacturer" is?


Edited by Almaviva (06/23/13 10:48 PM)

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#2107009 - 06/24/13 12:27 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2631
Loc: western Wisconsin
Hi Almaviva,

I have only seen and played one Perzina grand piano, a model T-175, which I believe is about 5'9". It was in a very ornate case design with a wood finish at the NAMM show, and I thought it played and sounded quite well- on par with their regular vertical piano models. I would not consider that instrument to be the equal of the others you have mentioned in your post, though. The model GP-130A upright, which I believe is a new design for Perzina, is one of the pianos that really impressed me, and seemed it could compete with much more expensive verticals and hold its own.

For whatever reason, the several Perzina dealers in the surrounding area where I live seem to have a good selection of verticals only.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
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Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

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#2107017 - 06/24/13 01:40 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
Originally Posted By: Almaviva
If pressed, I could afford something like an Estonia L190 or L210, a Mason & Hamlin AA, or a Schimmel K189 -something under $60,000 - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money if I didn't have to.


It's all about priorities. Do you need a high-performance piano? If not, you might be able to get away with a Perzina. If, on the other hand, you will subject the piano to rigorous and frequent playing, a higher-end piano would be best.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2107090 - 06/24/13 07:25 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3463
>Do any of you guys know anything about Perzina grands? Is their touch, tone, and build quality close to that of Estonias, Mason & Hamlins, Schimmels, etc. of the same size? Or are they no better than typical mass-produced pianos?

I have played a few Perzina grands several years ago

Sound was fine, let's say just below Petrof.
The casing looked OK, I did not see obvious defects but I did not check the details.

Seems the company is owned by Music Brokers International (Netherlands).
Supposedly the actions in grands are Renner.
But I think the pianos are built in China.
_________________________

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#2107120 - 06/24/13 09:33 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: terminaldegree]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Yeah, I know what you mean. I have found two dealers within a 200-mile radius, but they carry the uprights only.

Thanks for the appraisal of the sound and playability of the T-175 - good, but not quite as good as the Estonia, M&H, Schimmel, etc. models.

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#2107130 - 06/24/13 09:58 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: wouter79]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
You're right, they are made in China. However, the scale designs are German, and they use high-quality European components (Roslau strings, Renner actions, Austrian spruce soundboards, etc.). Their pianos are made in their own new factory equipped with modern CNC machinery from Germany, Japan & Italy - they haven't used OEMs since 2003.

Thanks for the appraisal of the grands - sounded fine, but not quite as good as Petrof.

Do you know who the "major European manufacturer" was that collaborated with Perzina in the design of their current line of grand pianos?


Edited by Almaviva (06/24/13 10:34 AM)

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#2107266 - 06/24/13 03:02 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
RAY930 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Almaviva

Do you know who the "major European manufacturer" was that collaborated with Perzina in the design of their current line of grand pianos?


I believe that major european manufacturer was Bechstein, but that project somehow never came to life. Currents grands line up were introduced last year I think, being new sizes, design and materials.

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#2108042 - 06/25/13 06:52 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
panche23 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Arizona/Calif
I had a Perzina grand for about 2 months. The dealer took it back, having problems with the action sticking. The piano tech was not able to fix to my liking. This was about 4-5 years ago. I stepped up to a Petrof. Have you considered a Brodmann piano? I played one sometime back and the action was very light and smooth. Almost bought one.

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#2108142 - 06/25/13 10:32 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
I've played a number of Perzina grands at Merriam pianos near Toronto and they consistently impress me. I wouldn't put them in the same category as Schimmels or Masons but they are certainly a better value for the money. There is no reason why you couldn't be fully satisfied with a well prepped Perzina grand. The only question mark for me would be longevity.

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#2108149 - 06/25/13 10:59 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: AJF]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Thanks, guys, for all of your responses. You've been very helpful.

I gather from most of your responses that the Perzina grands are good values for the money, but they are not in the not in the same league as the lower-priced "top tier" brands (e.g., Estonia, Schimmel Classic, Burger & Jacobi, W. Hoffmann, etc.). No one is sure of their longevity or reliability either.

I'll keep looking for a Perzina dealer that stocks the grand pianos, but no luck so far.


Edited by Almaviva (06/25/13 11:01 PM)

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#2108165 - 06/26/13 12:07 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
Originally Posted By: Almaviva
You're right, they are made in China. However, the scale designs are German, and they use high-quality European components (Roslau strings, Renner actions, Austrian spruce soundboards, etc.). Their pianos are made in their own new factory equipped with modern CNC machinery from Germany, Japan & Italy - they haven't used OEMs since 2003.


High end components and CNC machinery are all well and good, but the only thing that counts in the end is how well they play. Someone still has to put everything together, regulate its touch and tone, and tune it. In an entry level piano, this is often overlooked to satisfy the price point.
_________________________
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2108175 - 06/26/13 12:26 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Dara Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1028
Loc: west coast island, canada
Originally Posted By: Almaviva
I'll keep looking for a Perzina dealer that stocks the grand pianos, but no luck so far.


Hello Almaviva,

Do you have a particular fascination towards the Perzina grands? Have you tried some of the other highly rated Asian pianos?

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#2108204 - 06/26/13 02:22 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3463
Just one other thing, the Perzinas I played had a very light, open sound. More so than most other pianos. If you like that sound, Perzina might well be the best choice.
_________________________

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#2109606 - 06/28/13 11:25 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Dara]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Dara,

The only reason I was asking about Perzina grands was because one of them got good ratings in "Piano Buyer" a few years ago (comparable to Ritmuller, Hailun, Cunningham, & Brodmann), people have raved about their verticals, and the prices were reasonable. That's all.

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#2110494 - 06/30/13 07:25 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Usa
Well, I own a perzina grand piano and all I can say is that I'm impressed every time I play it. The newer grands are entirely different than the ones previously designed by hans leverkink. They have an entirely different scale and design than the older ones. For me, I have no concerns about longevity. Here is an example of the newer perzina grands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LA_x27GrZ-M

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#2110547 - 06/30/13 10:14 AM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Almaviva
If pressed, I could afford something like an Estonia L190 or L210, a Mason & Hamlin AA, or a Schimmel K189 -something under $60,000 - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money if I didn't have to.
The Mason AA and Estonia 190 should closer to or even under 40K.

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#2110584 - 06/30/13 12:07 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
You can also look at Shigeru SK-2 or some Kawai RX pianos. They brand new prices are quite cheap for the <2 meters pianos(half os Steinway and all this tier one pianos prices).

I don't know prices of Knabe as well, but I suppose they are good pianos too.

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#2110589 - 06/30/13 12:21 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
The first pianos which come to mind are the Walter and the Estonia. Different tonal structures but both great pianos.

There are some good bargains to be found on the Kawai RX series right now, but I don't consider them to have the same response and gratification as the Walters and the Estonias.

The piano which I consider to be the best bang for the buck is the Cunningham. It really is amazing what comes out of them and it would be my preference over the Perzina.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2110600 - 06/30/13 12:51 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Maybe he could also try Brodmann Artist Series, what you think Marty?

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#2110603 - 06/30/13 12:54 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Allan W. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 371
Loc: Michigan
Sounds like $60k can buy you a used or rebuilt high-end piano like Steinway, etc.
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Recent adult re-starter... http://www.youtube.com/user/allanw
Kawai MP-10 + Ivory II (pic), Young Chang Y175, 2012 (renting) (pic)

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#2110607 - 06/30/13 12:59 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Kapelli,

I don't have much experience with Brodmanns and really don't have a reference, especially with the different series.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2110610 - 06/30/13 01:08 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 358
Loc: Colorado
Marty,

Do you have much experience with Cunningham's?

Jonathan

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#2110639 - 06/30/13 02:04 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Jonathan,

At the store, they couldn't keep my hands off of them! I was impressed by how well they responded and couldn't believe the price.

I also have friends who own their grands. Also, even in good recordings, the sound comes through. My ears perk up immediately. They play & sound like pianos of a much 'higher tier.'
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2110704 - 06/30/13 04:41 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 585
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Thanks, Marty.

Estonia & Walter are on my "short list". If I decide to economize, one of the Cunningham models would be a candidate, as would the Hailun & Ritmuller grands.

Marty, you have been to the Cunningham factory & showroom in Philadelphia. In addition to the Cunningham line, Rich also carries Hailun, which is the OEM manufacturer for Cunningham. You obviously liked the Cunninghams. Did you also play any of the Hailuns? How are they different, in terms of touch, tone, etc. from the Cunninghams?

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#2110748 - 06/30/13 05:54 PM Re: How good are Perzina grand pianos? [Re: Almaviva]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Almaviva,

I have played Hailuns at dealerships other than Cunningham Piano, also. The big difference between the two is the sound, model compared to model. The Cunninghams have more depth and complexity in the tonal structure. It's my opinion that the difference is due to the fact that Rich, Tim, and their staff knew what they wanted to achieve and then it was realized through the skills of George Emerson, following the original Cunningham designs. How faithful the recreation is open to conjecture, I guess. What they have achieved speaks for itself, however.

I really didn't notice any significant difference in the action response of either of the brands. But, every instrument on the sales floor has received detailed preparation, so the similarity of action response is not surprising. It would be interesting to hear from Rich if there are differences in the action design and geometry.

I like the Hailuns very much and my recommendation for them stands. The Cunningham, however, is a more refined and tonally sophisticated instrument. The variation of color which is available to the pianist surpasses anything else which is close in price.

My opinion, based from a pianist's observation rather than a technician, is that the fit and finish on the Hailun products is as good as any of the Asian products, including Kawai and Yamaha. Whether that extends to the structural integrity is for others to judge. The reviews of others certainly indicate that this might be the case.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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