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#2107300 - 06/24/13 04:10 PM Should I get a digital piano?
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
As you can see from my post count (assuming you're reading this in 2013), I haven't posted much here, but I've been lurking.

I am deep into middle age (late 50s) and a lifelong musician. I gigged for many years in Nashville as a bass and rhythm guitar player. About 3-4 years ago I decided to try to learn jazz piano. I have an excellent teacher here in the Northern Virginia suburbs of DC, and it's going well.

But the piano in my house, an Everett spinet from the 1950s, is rather frustrating. It's got a rather uneven voice, questionable damping, and even some notes that growl a bit (including the all-crucial middle C). Three different piano technicians have advised my wife and me not to spend any kind of money trying to fix it up. I'd like to replace it.

The thing is, though, this piano belonged to my wife's grandmother, and I'm afraid it's here to stay. Every time I have hinted at getting a decent reconditioned upright, I've gotten a very chilly response. At the very least, it seems to be a permanent piece of legacy furniture in our living room.

So I've been thinking that I should maybe find a decent slab-style DP, just so I can play on a keyboard with a reasonable and even touch. I'm nowhere near needing something to play gigs, and I think I'm past the time in my life where I'm going to be doing a lot of living-room demos requiring a slew of different instrument sounds. Just decent grand piano; maybe also B3 organ and Fender Rhodes-ish voices.

After poring over these forums for a couple of days, I went over to the local Guitar Center this morning and messed around with a Casio PX-150, a Yamaha DX-640 (way more instruments than I need, but very nice touch), and a Yamaha P-105. Reading these threads moves me toward something like a Yamaha P-155.

Can anybody give me some guidance?

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#2107308 - 06/24/13 04:24 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: North Carolina
Don't expect a digital piano to sound like an acoustic.

Are you sure your piano is beyond repair?

If the strings are all or mostly rusted, it's probably not worthe the cost of string replacement.

If the pinblock is cracked or if there are many loose pins, the repair cost will be far too high to be worthwhile.

But short of that, it might well be worth fixing.

But the uneven tone might just require hammer voicing.
The growling middle C might just be a bad or notched hammer.

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#2107316 - 06/24/13 04:40 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Out of the digitals that you mentioned, probably the Yamaha P series keyboards (at least the higher numbered ones -- the P-155 anyway) probably will have a better piano sound than the DX-640. (It's been a while since I played the latter model, but from what I remember, the DX-640 seems to sacrifice piano sound and probably touch in favor of having many other features, like a large bank of other instrument sounds.) Some of the Casio PX keyboards are comparable to the Yamahas, it just depends on one's preference. If you're open to spending a bit more than the cost of one of these, be sure to check out Roland's digital pianos (the ones with SuperNatural piano technology -- there's a range of models in differing price ranges and with more or fewer features, and also different options in terms of feel/action). Overall they have the best feeling action of any digitals available, to me anyway, and also great piano sound.

Of course, you might want to get a second opinion about the restoration of your acoustic. If you have a decent one (and if that is good for your living situation), having the real thing will be far more awesome than even the best of today's digitals.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2107325 - 06/24/13 04:58 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think you are in a great position to get a digital piano. I grew up playing on a nasty old spinet and once I got a quality digital I stopped playing the spinet altogether. Still a nice piece of furniture/memorabilia in some ways, but not much of a musical instrument.

I think you are making a wise decision in looking at slab-style pianos that don't dominate your house (and tend to be cheaper and more easily researched).

In your situation, where you are looking for a digital piano primarily as an upgrade to your existing acoustic, you might want to stay off the bottom end, which the PX150 and P105 represent. The P155 has a higher-end action than the P105, but I don't personally find its tone all that much better. You might consider splurging a little more (assuming you can afford it) and moving up the line. The Yamaha P50 is a possibility or Kawai MP6 or ES7. The piano store in my town has put their Roland FP7F on sale ($1700) since it just got replaced by the FP-80. I played the FP7F, then the P155 and P105 right next to it to compare. In my opinion it outclasses them...for not that much more money when you think about it. The other possibility is the use of software pianos, which is my choice. They have much more detailed, realistic tone although there is a certain amount (not a ton, but some) of hassle associated with hooking your piano up to a computer.

Also, consider what your limiting factor is. Do you primarily have a problem with the tone of your acoustic or the action? You can get a lot of tone out of a software piano paired with a super-cheap digital, but the action won't be all that great. Also, because the actions from Kawai, Casio, Yamaha, and Roland all feel different, you might need to do some careful testing if action quality is what you are looking for.

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#2107332 - 06/24/13 05:04 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Thanks for the quick replies.

I may not have explained the situation with our acoustic piano. If I got another opinion about its restoration, it would be a FOURTH opinion. Three different piano techs, over a period of more than a decade, have offered the same evaluation: for just a bit more than the money it would cost to replace damper felts and hammers, the instrument--never very high-quality in the first place--could be replaced by a reconditioned Yamaha or Kawai upright.

I know this, because I made the drive over to Rick Jones Pianos myself and played some.

In other words, three uninterested professional techs told us it's not at all worth fixing. I keep it in tune, and recently had the action regulated, but it is what it is.

My problem is that I doubt I'll convince my wife to bring a second upright into the house. That would be my ideal solution, but it's not going to happen.

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#2107340 - 06/24/13 05:10 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
gvfarns, you were replying the same time I was. I think you understand my situation exactly.

Thanks for the tips on better slabs. I'll keep those in mind. Since I need the instrument mainly for serious (not just beginner-level) practice, touch and feel are probably the most important factors. I actually liked the feel of the DX-640, but the sound left a bit to be desired. I did glance at some web sites and reviews of the ES7, so maybe I'll check that out as well.

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#2107344 - 06/24/13 05:14 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 821
Don't give up your ideals - work toward a second acoustic piano. They are much more rewarding musically than digitals. That would also be my main argument for your family. After all, it's about music rather than about furniture (even if beloved), right?

If you wish, add a digital as a stop-gap, or as a portable piano. But if so, don't buy below the P155, ES7 class of instruments.

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#2107351 - 06/24/13 05:21 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: maurus]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Originally Posted By: maurus
Don't give up your ideals - work toward a second acoustic piano. They are much more rewarding musically than digitals. That would also be my main argument for your family. After all, it's about music rather than about furniture (even if beloved), right?

If you wish, add a digital as a stop-gap, or as a portable piano. But if so, don't buy below the P155, ES7 class of instruments.

Ah, if only.

Yes, of course, it's about music more than furniture. I know that. But it's also about maintaining a successful 37-year marriage, which has been a part of my life much longer than my piano studies will ever have been.

So, no, I'm not going to dig in my heels and stand my ground on this. Not at all. I'm looking for a solution here that accepts the importance of this piece of furniture to my wife.

gvfarns got it right: I need a decent digital instrument that won't dominate the house, much more than I need the acoustic piano of my dreams.

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#2107353 - 06/24/13 05:24 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Just get yourself a VPC. It even looks classy. There's a reason why they're selling like cabbage patch dolls did at one time. smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2107362 - 06/24/13 05:44 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 261
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: shepdave
Three different piano techs, over a period of more than a decade, have offered the same evaluation: for just a bit more than the money it would cost to replace damper felts and hammers, the instrument--never very high-quality in the first place--could be replaced by a reconditioned Yamaha or Kawai upright.

Hi Shepdave,

Did the techs say that it couldn't be fixed up, or just that the cost of doing so would be the same or more than the cost of buying a reconditioned Yamaha, etc.?

I'm wondering if the techs just did a dollars-to-dollars comparison, when that really isn't your situation. Your Everett has sentimental value for your wife, and it sounds like it's going to keep taking up space in the house even if no one plays it.

It might be worth more in overall happiness to spend "more than it's worth" to get it fixed up if possible.

I have an old car that I love. Its blue book value is probably only about $1500, but I keep spending thousands to keep it on the road. I like the car, and nobody makes a similar car right now. So the maintenance cost isn't technically "worth it", but to me it's well worth it.

I ask because I grew up with a 1950s Everett "Dyna-tension" console. It's still going strong.

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#2107391 - 06/24/13 06:39 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Thomas Williams Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ, USA
Thanks for the clarification, shepdave. Stating that you need an instrument for "serious practice" helps a bit -- I would agree with the commentator who advised staying away from the lower class of digitals, for that purpose. I had a Korg SP-250 for a while, which is fairly close to the lower end, and it turned out to be terrible for more finessed playing. (Felt like practicing on it was messing up my technique, even though playing big, bombastic stuff on it felt very good initially.) So I decided I had to sell it (and thankfully, digital pianos don't depreciate quite as much as cars) and upgrade. I now have a Roland FP7F, and it is AWESOME. I am very satisfied with it, and even quite inspired when practicing on it. As gvfarns mentioned, you might be able to find a closeout deal on that model, as I did; otherwise, there are new models that are pretty much equivalent. I've never tried playing the FP4F (or new FP50), but my understanding is that those are cheaper, weigh less and have a different action, but have the same awesome sound engine. The feel may or may not be to your liking. And I do like the feel of the Kawai MP series DP's that I've tried, although I have little experience with them. These are all slab-style models (or stage pianos) -- I also didn't want mine to be a full console model.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-hvAs0rvMk

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#2107401 - 06/24/13 07:01 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: rnaple]
Tritium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 179
Loc: Western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Just get yourself a VPC. It even looks classy. There's a reason why they're selling like cabbage patch dolls did at one time. smile


Huh?? With all due respect, Rnaple, that does not seem like optimum advice, nor an ideal solution for Shepdave, given his comments and stated background and objectives. The VPC appears to be a wonderful solution for gigging and/or recording musicians, as well as those who have a good laptop/computer and experience in using 3rd party piano software.

However, I get the sense that Shepdave wants something to replace his old Spinet style acoustic piano, and the ability to sit down and just PLAY, at any time, without worrying about booting up a separate computer, and perhaps even having to use additional peripherals (such as active monitors).

I may be wrong, but I get the sense he is looking towards a self-contained digital piano solution, which means a console or slab type DP with built-in speaker system.

Given that, there appears to be some great solutions available from Casio (the new PX-780/750 or 850) Kawai (e.g. ES7), and Roland, as well as Yamaha.


Edited by Tritium (06/24/13 07:06 PM)

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#2107407 - 06/24/13 07:12 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 851
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I think for most uprights in general and especially for spinets in particular it is not worth the money to restore.

That said unless the OP is technically inclined and has interest in piano software I wouldn't recommend the VPC1 either. A more standard console or slab with sound engine and speakers is probably what is required.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2107412 - 06/24/13 07:19 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Tritium]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
You're right, Tritium. Once I figured out what VPC stood for (which took a little bit of looking around grin), I came to the same conclusion. I don't anticipate being eager to hook up to my MacBook Pro every time I want to play.

I need something I can put away easily, set up easily, plug a pair of headphones into, and feel like I'm playing a decent piano. Ability to take it elsewhere, away from home, and know I have a quality keyboard to play, is also a plus. (But that's not the main idea.)

After all the helpful comments here, I'll probably start looking now at the ES7, MP6, FP80 range of DPs. Self-contained, slab, very good weighted keyboard, good grand piano sound.

And as other people offer other advice, I'll appreciate that as well.

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#2107423 - 06/24/13 07:38 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: BrainCramp]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1896
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
Originally Posted By: shepdave
Three different piano techs, over a period of more than a decade, have offered the same evaluation: for just a bit more than the money it would cost to replace damper felts and hammers, the instrument--never very high-quality in the first place--could be replaced by a reconditioned Yamaha or Kawai upright.

Hi Shepdave,

Did the techs say that it couldn't be fixed up, or just that the cost of doing so would be the same or more than the cost of buying a reconditioned Yamaha, etc.?

I'm wondering if the techs just did a dollars-to-dollars comparison, when that really isn't your situation. Your Everett has sentimental value for your wife, and it sounds like it's going to keep taking up space in the house even if no one plays it.

It might be worth more in overall happiness to spend "more than it's worth" to get it fixed up if possible.

I have an old car that I love. Its blue book value is probably only about $1500, but I keep spending thousands to keep it on the road. I like the car, and nobody makes a similar car right now. So the maintenance cost isn't technically "worth it", but to me it's well worth it.

I ask because I grew up with a 1950s Everett "Dyna-tension" console. It's still going strong.


This would be my choice for the "best" solution.

If you can get your spinet restored to "good" condition, go for it. Your wife will love it (not to mention, you) and you get a nice acoustic to play on. No Brainer.


P.S. Now, that works ... ONLY IF YOU LIKE TO PLAY THE SPINET. If not, then forget it.



Edited by dmd (06/24/13 07:41 PM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2107505 - 06/24/13 10:47 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: dmd]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: shepdave
You're right, Tritium. Once I figured out what VPC stood for (which took a little bit of looking around grin), I came to the same conclusion. I don't anticipate being eager to hook up to my MacBook Pro every time I want to play.
And as other people offer other advice, I'll appreciate that as well.


My big intention was sound quality. The resultant expressiveness. That's all. Although my software piano's aren't a real grand. They come much closer than what the manufacturers are putting in their DP's.
It's pretty impressive when I hit my sustain pedal and I can hear the strings vibrate. Or hold a key down and it just keeps sustaining like a real grand piano does. Or the dynamic range, touch sensitivity, velocity response. The sound walks all over what the manufacturers are building into their DP's.
My Keyboard stays connected to my computer all the time. Doesn't take much to bring it up.
Since you have a MacBookPro. It will work easy. Won't have all the headaches people here talk about with their PC's and software pianos.
And the VPC looks classy enough that your wife wouldn't mind seeing it.
Cost would still be about half of what you'd pay for a good used upright.
Also...I admit....the ES7 ain't no slouch.

Originally Posted By: dmd

If you can get your spinet restored to "good" condition, go for it. Your wife will love it (not to mention, you) and you get a nice acoustic to play on. No Brainer.
P.S. Now, that works ... ONLY IF YOU LIKE TO PLAY THE SPINET. If not, then forget it.



I don't know that any spinet. Even the best spinet. Can play well?
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2107610 - 06/25/13 02:34 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1393
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . . I played the FP7F, then the P155 and P105 right next to it to compare. In my opinion it outclasses them...for not that much more money when you think about it.
. .


I had a similar experience, PX-150/350 vs. FP-7F. The FP-7F is really good, both in sound and action.

"Not that much more money" is still $700 - $1000. And I don't think _any_ slab piano has loudspeakers that do it justice. If you haven't tried the digipianos with headphones, you really should. You might want to budget for a better loudspeaker/amp (or two of them).

I think leaving the old upright dusted, and unused, is illogical -- but that's how people are, about stuff with lots of memories attached to it. I have a boat that I'm finding it hard to part with . . .

. Charles

PX-350 owner

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#2107636 - 06/25/13 04:50 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 778
Loc: Dorset, UK
After over half a century of owning acoustics, right up to a concert grand for a while, for reasons outlined in other threads, I have moved to digital: Kawai ES7. There are other comparable makes/models, but the ES7 with its 3 pedal stand makes for a nice piece of furniture.

A DP takes a bit of getting used to, it's true, but my experience is of getting at least as much pleasure from playing it straight out of the box and then playing the 3 "pianos" I now have configured for myself. Until my acoustic grand was shipped out I spent more time playing the ES7 - not that I am saying it's better, it's different.

Yes, I have added a software harpsichord and software organ. Will soon add a software piano, but these are optional. The ES7 sounds good through its speakers with its native sounds, such that I have played it in public to critical and surprised, for some, acclaim (for the sound!) Not able yet of course to say how long the action will stand up to my lengthy playing of Beethoven, Brahms, Rachmaninov etc.

If anyone has an AP that is not worth repairing and cannot replace it, for whatever reason, a goodish DP is a good option, not a poor one.

Don't let people persuade you that the only piano worth having is an AP. Try as many DPs as possible (and APs for comparison) and let your hands and ears guide you to a decision that's right for you.

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#2107648 - 06/25/13 06:07 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
shepdave, I have read your post, here:

As you can see from my post count (assuming you're reading this in 2013), I haven't posted much here, but I've been lurking.

I am deep into middle age (late 50s) and a lifelong musician. I gigged for many years in Nashville as a bass and rhythm guitar player. About 3-4 years ago I decided to try to learn jazz piano. I have an excellent teacher here in the Northern Virginia suburbs of DC, and it's going well.

But the piano in my house, an Everett spinet from the 1950s, is rather frustrating. It's got a rather uneven voice, questionable damping, and even some notes that growl a bit (including the all-crucial middle C). Three different piano technicians have advised my wife and me not to spend any kind of money trying to fix it up. I'd like to replace it.

The thing is, though, this piano belonged to my wife's grandmother, and I'm afraid it's here to stay. Every time I have hinted at getting a decent reconditioned upright, I've gotten a very chilly response. At the very least, it seems to be a permanent piece of legacy furniture in our living room.

So I've been thinking that I should maybe find a decent slab-style DP, just so I can play on a keyboard with a reasonable and even touch. I'm nowhere near needing something to play gigs, and I think I'm past the time in my life where I'm going to be doing a lot of living-room demos requiring a slew of different instrument sounds. Just decent grand piano; maybe also B3 organ and Fender Rhodes-ish voices.

After poring over these forums for a couple of days, I went over to the local Guitar Center this morning and messed around with a Casio PX-150, a Yamaha DX-640 (way more instruments than I need, but very nice touch), and a Yamaha P-105. Reading these threads moves me toward something like a Yamaha P-155.

Can anybody give me some guidance?

__________________________________________________

For me, I played a sax in a few bands, a beginner player at 40. At 62 I dusted of my old Clavinova that had been gathering dust 20 years. I accidentally fell in love with the piano after a year. The clavinova was great, nice sound, big built-in speakers.

As when I was a kid of 7, my father ended up with a piano that was called a birdcage - means in piano language it was cheap and bad. It had ivory keys that were worn. It was never tuned. It had 66 keys, so a 3/4 piano. We moved into a trailer 6 feet wide and 34 feet long. No room for a piano of any size. Digitals didn't exist then in 1956. It had a 3/4 inch plywood case painted pink because it was taken to the Yukon during the Gold Rush.

So after playing the piano working my way through Leila Fletcher Piano Book 1 - I remembered that pink piano I played for a very short time. I asked a few piano stores if the knew of a piano that had cigarette burns and bullet holes that was playable. I had limited funds, had serious health issues, and when I got a call from a piano store telling me they found a piano, I said it was a little over my budget - and then I thought for a moment, remembered that friends and doctors said I almost died. So I asked myself, if I played the piano once or twice and died, would I be sorry, if I spent the money and then died, and the answer was clearly, no. I am still alive and I love my acoustic piano. Yes, I have a great digital slab, a Yam P95, and, of course, a Clavinova.

Digitals are great because you can play them with earphones 24/7/365. But I would take an acoustic piano because it is a piano. I am now 63, and I want to play an acoustic until I die. If you can only have one piano in the house, let it be an acoustic of any condition, and throw a cheap digital in the truck of your car - if you must.


Edited by Michael_99 (06/25/13 06:18 AM)

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#2107674 - 06/25/13 08:10 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 261
Loc: USA
Shepdave,

One thing you might consider doing is finding your Everett's serial number and looking it up on the Yamaha web site here:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/Text_WithCatMenu_SC/0,6381,CNTID=12174&CTID=410010&VNM=LIVE&AFLG=Y,00.html

Then post a note in the Technician's forum to see if anyone has any experience with Everetts of that type and vintage.

I think the first question you'll get about a 1950s Everett is whether you're sure it's a spinet and not a console. So you'll want to measure its height and mention that in your posting.



Edited by BrainCramp (06/25/13 08:28 AM)
Edit Reason: added spinet vs. console note

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#2107686 - 06/25/13 08:44 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
BrainCramp, the Everett works fine. It's not broken. It's just not very good, and I don't like playing it very much. It has a thin sound, little to no damping, and an uneven action.

I'm not trying to fix it up. I'm trying to find a piano that's more fun to play.

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#2107708 - 06/25/13 09:36 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 261
Loc: USA
Sorry Shepdave, I didn't mean to be pushy.

Your original post was titled "Should I get a digital?". But it sounds like it should have been "Which digital should I get?", since the other options you mentioned were never really options.

People here aren't mind readers, they're just trying to help.

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#2107716 - 06/25/13 10:07 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
shepdave, I have read your post, here:


BrainCramp, the Everett works fine. It's not broken. It's just not very good, and I don't like playing it very much. It has a thin sound, little to no damping, and an uneven action.

I'm not trying to fix it up. I'm trying to find a piano that's more fun to play.


________________________________________________

Thanks for the enlightenment. The difference between the digital and the acoustic is what the digital piano world call decay. It is an awesome word because it means when you hit or strike a key on the digital, by the count of 8, the sound has decayed (died a sad death). So if you play a piece and the note is a whole note and is to be held for 2 measures - the sound dies before the count of 8. The digital world will say, well, it depends on how slowly you count. Good, answer, except I disagree. Of course, you can do that test on your Everett and you can do it on whatever digital you play. You will find it interesting. Any note that decays before the count of 8, in my opinion, is a dead note, and I say if a note dies before its time, is a thin sound - something you were looking.

Having said that, I love my two digitals, and if they made a 48 weight keyed piano, I would buy it instantly - at almost any price - because I could take it with me anywhere on the planet 24/7/365 for the rest of my life.

cheers,


Edited by Michael_99 (06/25/13 10:11 AM)

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#2107718 - 06/25/13 10:22 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Michael_99]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Michael_99
shepdave, I have read your post, here:


Michael_99, you can use the quote button when you reply. That way it's obvious to readers what is being quoted. The way you have been quoting people is confusing and hard to read.

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#2108027 - 06/25/13 06:32 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: gvfarns]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
gvfarns, I have read your post, here:

Originally Posted By: Michael_99
shepdave, I have read your post, here:


Michael_99, you can use the quote button when you reply. That way it's obvious to readers what is being quoted. The way you have been quoting people is confusing and hard to read.

___________________________________________

Thanks for your helpful suggestion. You should know that I am dyslexic. I have memory problems and I can't see the quoted material until I scroll it time and time again. Also it is darker background and size of font is smaller. It may work for the rest of the world, but it doesn't work for me. I appreciate that much of what I post is not understood and I accept that most people get confused of what I post, but as a dyslexic, that the is the price of trying to do ones best in the real world.


Edited by Michael_99 (06/25/13 06:35 PM)

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#2108041 - 06/25/13 06:52 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Michael_99]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 821
Michael_99, don't let these questions about your way of posting bother you. I, for one, fully understand, and accept your way of posting.

For all others: What we may see as an idiosyncrasy may be, for some, a rescue. We all have our own little oddities, in one way or the other.

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#2108074 - 06/25/13 07:48 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
berninicaco3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 103
Loc: iowa city, ia
I just went through the same question myself.

Agreed on the spinet. I don't think they were ever good pianos, or even ever could be. Just the physics of their small size no matter how well built. They aren't too heavy though, and I think maybe that's why they ever sold at all.

One major question is budget, and, will you remain at the same place for many years?

Electronic pianos don't need tuning, and you can carry them under your arm. If it has a stand, well, unscrew it, then you carry it under your arm. It's still feather light next to a full upright. Those are huge advantages. There are no tunings to pay for, and from what I've heard, the things that can go wrong (keys still have moving parts, sensors, motherboard, etc.), often really don't go wrong until after the piano has given its value anyway.

I opted for an acoustic... but it's still a dicey toss up. It was heavy and expensive to move, and (I did know ahead of time, don't worry), it needs repairs. It's a 5'6" grand piano, and the repairs are still just barely worth it, or maybe not quite worth it in fact. So I hear you on your spinet.
My 'new' grand is mahogany with ivory keys, and was at least once a decent piano, though never first-rate. It only needs bass strings to be playable. Whether i go further to improve tone or simply to invest in its lasting 3 more decades is up to me and my budget. It isn't a basket case, and I'm still being shot down by some in the piano technician threads smile But we don't all have $15000 for a new grand piano.

For the same money I could have had a casio px-850 at my door by now. I wouldn't have nearly as much fun fixing it... but that's just me. Buying a new digital is stress free. Buying a used upright is like buying a used car; maybe it's a fun game, or maybe it's frustrating and expensive.
ESPECIALLY if you're going to move soon, digital is very advantageous.
The actions are not bad if you have $900-$1500, and the sound is BETTER than you'll get in a 2nd hand worn-out acoustic for that same price range.

Like I said, I was looking at the px-850 for the best classical piano replacement (not a synthesizer, etc) in my budget. Musiciansfriend has another 15% off sale (maybe they do that every month) that keeps it at $850 delivered.
But there seem to be rave reviews over the kawai es7 for duplicating a concert grand really, really well. If you have nearly $1500.


Edited by berninicaco3 (06/25/13 07:57 PM)

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#2108126 - 06/25/13 09:37 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: maurus]
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 935
Loc: Canada Alberta
maurus, I have read your post, here:

Michael_99, don't let these questions about your way of posting bother you. I, for one, fully understand, and accept your way of posting.

For all others: What we may see as an idiosyncrasy may be, for some, a rescue. We all have our own little oddities, in one way or the other.

_____________________________________________

Thanks, maurus, for your kind thoughts. Your feedback is appreciated.

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#2108150 - 06/25/13 11:02 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
maire8 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 9
Shepdave, I have no advice, but just wanted to say that I get where you're at. I'm in a similar situation with my Lester 1940s-era "Betsy Ross" spinet. Different keys have been going defunct on it, the most recent being one right in mid-range. (This link describes the problem in case anyone is interested or thinking about telling me to get it fixed - looked into that already and it's totally not worth it given the cause of the problem: http://blog.mpstrax.net/piano-buying/run-away-now-pianos-part-2/ )

So anyway...I'm looking at digitals too now, needless to say. Just wanted to chime as someone who can relate.

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#2108151 - 06/25/13 11:08 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Oh, maire8, when you typed the word "Lester," you took me back to my childhood. I was just telling my teacher on Saturday about the first piano my parents had in our house when I was a little kid. It was a Lester player upright. Just talking with my brother today, who is in town visiting, reminded me of that old player piano and the rolls my parents had (mostly Broadway show tunes from the 1940s).

It wasn't a very good instrument, of course, and my parents sold it for a ridiculously low price when we moved a few counties over right when I began 8th grade in school. But it was a player piano, and therefore had an enormous "cool factor" that I couldn't appreciate when I was a kid.

But, yeah, I imagine it would fall into that "not worth fixing up" category.

Incidentally, since I started this thread yesterday, I've talked with my wife about my idea of getting a decent DP in lieu of replacing the Everett. She seems pretty enthusiastic about that idea, so I guess that's what I'll do at some point in the next couple months.

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#2108166 - 06/26/13 12:07 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
If you like the action of the DGX640 you should know the Yamaha p105 has the same action.
The GHS action. But it is considered to be a cheaper end action.

The more expensive action is the GH action from Yamaha present in the p155.(Some have complained it is too heavy).

I personally don't mind the GHS action at all and my p105 is on it's way. But if your budget allows you probably should listen to others in this forum and try out the Roland digital pianos, namely fp50 and fp80..

I've read only good things about the FP80.(successor to the Fp7f)

Best thing is to go to the store and try them out with a headphones as others have said.
Good luck smile

You should probably at least give consideration to the Casio pianos as well. Many people like them and the action to me is very good. Whether or not that is because of the Tri-sensor design I don't know. But don't count them out in the under 1000US price range.

The PX850 is a furniture style piano with powerful speakers. I would imagine it is a very nice instrument. unfortunately there aren't any available locally. I myself have played the px130 and was very impressed with it's action.

At the end of the day you should pick what's right for you and what feels the best to you. Everything with digital pianos and how a piano should play and feel seems to be very subjective.
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2108198 - 06/26/13 01:51 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Mta88]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3707
Loc: Northern England.
I have to say I find the GHS better than the GH which is something or nothing. But the 640 seems to differ from the P105 actionwise although they are both GHS.
_________________________
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#2108208 - 06/26/13 02:44 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4425
Loc: San Jose, CA
If your wife's 'valuable heirloom' were discovered to have mice, who (1) had ruined it beyond repair by chewing up the felts to make nests, and (2) made it smell (urine soaking into the wood is the problem--- that, and a certain black mold they track in), you would be very far along with your agenda to oust it from your music room. If you read much in the Tuner/Tech forum, you will discover that it happens all the time--- it even happened in The Piano Shop on the West Bank... just in case your wife is the kind who will never believe it unless she reads it in a novel (and to a grandmother, too).

Point out that her grandmother would be the first one to call for the haulers to come take it away, and make it double-quick. IF you play your cards right, you can get a dealer to accept this as a trade-up for a new grand (he will be in on the arrangement, and will simply take the horrid spinet right to the dump... and he'll tell the wife that it will be reconditioned in a 'special shop' so that underprivileged children will have a piano to play).

While you're getting the grand, get the DP as well. I like the Kawai products like MP-10, but wifey might prefer one of their cabinet models (for more money, of course... but Grandmother would like it). But, there should be a bonus dealer discount for moving two items in one morning, with one negotiation and one delivery charge. You help them on their overhead, they help you on your invoice price. You buy the special Cory's Piano Polish, and they sternly warn her never to place a vase of flowers on the piano, even for a party or for the holidays.

Get in the showroom while they still have some RX-2's on the floor, and snap one up; they're changing the letters on the fallboard and are probably remaindering what they have left, so the new ones will have room.

Play your cards right, and wifey will be all a-twitter. Though, frankly, I think the music room is best bestowed in the man-cave.

PS- Do not make the mistake of using white laboratory mice; it is too obvious, and they might be thought 'cute.'
_________________________
Clef


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#2108217 - 06/26/13 03:21 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 554
Jeff.. your post... the one up there...
_________________________
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#2108225 - 06/26/13 04:29 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1378
Loc: uk south
I found myself in the same pickle. The upright piano belongs to the other half but it's arguably one of the most unrewarding instruments I've ever played. The BIL is a piano-tuner maintenance guy and has done his best but I'm afraid it is what it is and no amount of polishing will redeem it.

For the record, I bought a Casio px 150 which now sits tauntingly alongside its completely neglected progenitor. I did toy with the idea of an ES7 but my local stockist didn't do Kawai (casio/yamaha/roland abound but not Kawai - is this a uk thing?) so I grabbed the px 150 almost on impulse. I don't think I could be much happier with another action. The ES7 would probably feel different...but better? - I don't know. I'm sure the ES7 has a better sample set than the casio but honestly when I'm stuck into what I'm doing I'm not preoccupied in any way with real or imagined shortcomings in the sound. I only had 10 minutes in the store and was also impressed by the Yamaha P105 but I felt the Casio action had the edge.

As to sounds...
Grand: Decent enough and un-troubling when immersed in what you're doing. Very tweakable on touch response and brightness.
EPs: Reasonably good rhodes (Elec piano), wurlitzer (60's E.piano) and FM piano. The EP sounds lack a decent stereo pan so are not so much fun through headphones.
Organ: A single Jimmy Smith-ish setting. Not too bad. A couple of pop organs which are unlikely to move my local airwaves any time soon.

You can split the main RH sound with a string bass or string bass+ride cymbal which will turn you into a surprisngly convincing dinner-jazz trio.

A few other unexplored bells and whistles. There's no line out but I was able to get a clean undistorted output from the headphone socket into my laptop with the input record level drastically reduced (10 on a scale 100!). There's an internal record feature which I suspect is midi only but instead I use the casio to drive a software piano in the laptop - that works well (as it should!).

The casio is light in weight and I believe the yamaha p105 is also.

Unlike the acoustic here, the casio is very rewarding to play - I'm sure the yamaha would be also, both responding physically as you would want. Hope you enjoy your journey.

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#2108227 - 06/26/13 04:33 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
If your wife's 'valuable heirloom' were discovered to have mice, who (1) had ruined it beyond repair by chewing up the felts to make nests, and (2) made it smell (urine soaking into the wood is the problem--- that, and a certain black mold they track in), you would be very far along with your agenda to oust it from your music room. If you read much in the Tuner/Tech forum, you will discover that it happens all the time--- it even happened in The Piano Shop on the West Bank... just in case your wife is the kind who will never believe it unless she reads it in a novel (and to a grandmother, too).

Point out that her grandmother would be the first one to call for the haulers to come take it away, and make it double-quick. IF you play your cards right, you can get a dealer to accept this as a trade-up for a new grand (he will be in on the arrangement, and will simply take the horrid spinet right to the dump... and he'll tell the wife that it will be reconditioned in a 'special shop' so that underprivileged children will have a piano to play).

While you're getting the grand, get the DP as well. I like the Kawai products like MP-10, but wifey might prefer one of their cabinet models (for more money, of course... but Grandmother would like it). But, there should be a bonus dealer discount for moving two items in one morning, with one negotiation and one delivery charge. You help them on their overhead, they help you on your invoice price. You buy the special Cory's Piano Polish, and they sternly warn her never to place a vase of flowers on the piano, even for a party or for the holidays.

Get in the showroom while they still have some RX-2's on the floor, and snap one up; they're changing the letters on the fallboard and are probably remaindering what they have left, so the new ones will have room.

Play your cards right, and wifey will be all a-twitter. Though, frankly, I think the music room is best bestowed in the man-cave.

PS- Do not make the mistake of using white laboratory mice; it is too obvious, and they might be thought 'cute.'


I imagine that approach does get a thing or two done in a relationship. smile
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2108791 - 06/26/13 11:26 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
maire8 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 9
Originally Posted By: shepdave
Oh, maire8, when you typed the word "Lester," you took me back to my childhood. I was just telling my teacher on Saturday about the first piano my parents had in our house when I was a little kid. It was a Lester player upright. Just talking with my brother today, who is in town visiting, reminded me of that old player piano and the rolls my parents had (mostly Broadway show tunes from the 1940s).

It wasn't a very good instrument, of course, and my parents sold it for a ridiculously low price when we moved a few counties over right when I began 8th grade in school. But it was a player piano, and therefore had an enormous "cool factor" that I couldn't appreciate when I was a kid.

But, yeah, I imagine it would fall into that "not worth fixing up" category.

Incidentally, since I started this thread yesterday, I've talked with my wife about my idea of getting a decent DP in lieu of replacing the Everett. She seems pretty enthusiastic about that idea, so I guess that's what I'll do at some point in the next couple months.

Wow, that's really cool! Player pianos fascinate me. It must have been really fun to have that in your home as a kid.

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#2108848 - 06/27/13 02:13 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: peterws]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
I'm glad to see someone else here also is fond of the ghs action.
Maybe I may desire something better in the future but to my hands I thought the ghs action was the logical choice. It was light and seemed to be very responsive.

Not that I really had a choice because I couldn't afford anything more than 500us

But if I had the choice between the p105 and the p155, I'm not sure what I'd have done.

The ghs, seems fine to me. Not sure if the price difference is worth it .. For me at least.

Many people seem to despise the ghs
Again, very subjective.


I do admit I was fond of the casio but thought it may be tiring to play for extended periods.

Due to my unique situation with my muscles the lighter action was the logical choice( don't mean to sound like Spock )

If I'm ever getting an acoustic I will go with a light action I'm sure. But that is a personal preference .
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2108850 - 06/27/13 02:16 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Are u sure the differences between the p105 and the dgx 640 is not the actual action, but the connection to the sound itself?

And it may appear that the action differs when in reality the action is the same,, weight wise,, but because the samples are different it feels as though the actual action differs?


Does that make any sense?
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2108855 - 06/27/13 02:35 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Btw someone should mention that the dgx 650 is out.

Looks decent.
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2108877 - 06/27/13 04:47 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5277
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
If you want to spend more than you had planned consider the NU1 or N1 from Yamaha. You'll have an upright acoustic action in the NU1 and a grand piano action in the N1.

You did write that you're looking for a piano for serious practice ... and these would fit the bill and then some.
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#2108983 - 06/27/13 10:05 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Now, here's another question for you all:

I went to a local Guitar Center in Fairfax, Virginia, where I was able to play the aforementioned Casios and Yamahas, but only a limited selection of those. No Kawais were to be found there.

Assuming I wanted to put my hands on a Kawai MP6 or ES7 (for example), where would I go to play one? A piano shop that carries Kawai? Some other kind of music store? Anybody in the Washington, DC area have any suggestions?

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#2108989 - 06/27/13 10:16 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Mta88]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3707
Loc: Northern England.
MTA - "
but because the samples are different it feels as though the actual action different"

Indeed it does make sense. The DGx always seemed to sound different from others. I find that with Pianoteq, I have to adjust the velocity curve. In fact, even with the two distinct piano samples onboard, there is a difference one to another.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2108990 - 06/27/13 10:19 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Dave, some of the 'big box' retailers stock a limited selection of Kawai instruments, such as the CE220, MP6, MP10, and EP3, however they are typically online vendors rather than bricks and mortar stores.

To play test a Kawai instrument, I would indeed recommend visiting a Kawai piano dealer.
There is a dealer locator on the Kawai America website here:

http://kawaius.com/locator2012.html

I tried inputting 'Vienna, VA' and found three dealers within a 25 mile radius. However, you may also wish to drop my colleagues at Kawai America a line for more information about dealers and product availability.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#2109001 - 06/27/13 10:46 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: shepdave
Now, here's another question for you all:

I went to a local Guitar Center in Fairfax, Virginia, where I was able to play the aforementioned Casios and Yamahas, but only a limited selection of those. No Kawais were to be found there.

Assuming I wanted to put my hands on a Kawai MP6 or ES7 (for example), where would I go to play one? A piano shop that carries Kawai? Some other kind of music store? Anybody in the Washington, DC area have any suggestions?


Dave, I visit the same GC in Fairfax -- it's just a few miles from my home.

If you do find a dealer in the DC area that has Kawai products on the floor, please let us know. I had to go to Sam Ash in NYC to try out Kawai slabs (and some other boards not carried at GC, which does have an otherwise decent selection, albeit a somewhat unique ambiance).
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#2109040 - 06/27/13 12:05 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: ClsscLib]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Thanks for the locator link, Kawai James. I'll check out either the Leesburg or the Manassas location of The Piano Company later this week or next.

ClsscLib, I'll give a Northern-Virginia-update after I've made my excursion. I'm a high-school teacher, it's summer, I have nothing to do but practice and go to baseball games. Life is good--for another couple months.

You're right about the ambience at GC, ClsscLib. The guys were quite helpful, and I was left to noodle around with several pianos. All good--until they started demonstrating a PA system in the next room with a loud hip-hop track. Then all my jazz doodlings were buried and all sound comparisons were finished.

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#2109112 - 06/27/13 02:23 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Dave Horne]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
If you want to spend more than you had planned consider the NU1 or N1 from Yamaha. You'll have an upright acoustic action in the NU1 and a grand piano action in the N1.

You did write that you're looking for a piano for serious practice ... and these would fit the bill and then some.


Was now about to suggest this. If I had the cash I would go for an NU1.
Problem is it is practically just like a piano and his wife might see it as completely replacing the spinet.

Most people can't really tell the difference between the NU1 and a spinet to begin with.

Not to mention the price tag.

Maybe a slab style piano would be good for this particular situation. If the sound is unsatisfactory there is always the option of purchasing a speaker system such as the roland cm220 or a KRK setup.. Or a decent studio headphones.
Plenty options.
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2109117 - 06/27/13 02:33 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: peterws]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Originally Posted By: peterws
MTA - "
but because the samples are different it feels as though the actual action different"

Indeed it does make sense. The DGx always seemed to sound different from others. I find that with Pianoteq, I have to adjust the velocity curve. In fact, even with the two distinct piano samples onboard, there is a difference one to another.





Thought so.

Do you by chance have the space for the yamaha NU1?

Maybe if you can show your wife and convince her that it is a digital and doesn't need any tuning, she might agree?

Is that completely out of your budget?

It is the closest thing to a replacement of a quality acoustic piano. No added tuning costs. An actual real piano action.

And although its pricier, it should be worth it. Has a soundboard and everything. The only difference is speakers generate the sound, not strings.

I only suggest it because you are accustomed to an acoustic piano. This would be the closest replacement there is.
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#2109127 - 06/27/13 02:51 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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#2109232 - 06/27/13 06:36 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
R_B Offline
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PNOScan suggests itself.

Plus a sound generator of some sort, an amp, some speakers, etc.

Plan B; cannibalize the spinet's carcase and stuff a slab and whatever electronic in it.


In jest, of course.

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#2109356 - 06/27/13 11:17 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
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Yeah, actually going for a NU1 would sort of defeat the purpose for which I'm trying to buy a digital. If I were going to bring another upright-sized instrument into the house, I'd buy an acoustic upright.

Having to tune the spinet is not the problem. I have a tuner in every six months, no sweat. And my being accustomed to this spinet is what's driving me crazy. It's not a good piano, and I'd like to have a better piano than I now have.

I'm definitely going to be looking at a slab-style DP.

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#2109372 - 06/28/13 12:07 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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You can also consider korg sp280 . Has some decent power speakers on it.

The best slab styles would be the Roland's and the kawai s.


Kawai seem to have the best reputation for action that mimics acoustic feel.

Roland has a very sweet piano sound from what others have said. And their action is liked as well.

If I had to make a choice I would order a fp80 blindly. Only read good things about them.

Provided I had the funds.
All depends on your budget.
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#2109373 - 06/28/13 12:08 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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The korg are on the much cheaper end.. Around 699.

The Roland's would cross 1500 . Maybe 2000 I think for the fp80

Kawai are similarly priced.


All the best in your search.
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#2109464 - 06/28/13 04:30 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Dave Horne Offline
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Yeah, actually going for a NU1 would sort of defeat the purpose for which I'm trying to buy a digital. If I were going to bring another upright-sized instrument into the house, I'd buy an acoustic upright.


Shepdave, the footprint of any keyboard will be roughly the same as a spinet or the NU1. A slab will look more open but the footprint is just about the same.

If you buy a slab you will also need to buy a piano stand ... and there are differences between them. A good rule of thumb is to avoid those X type stands.
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#2109466 - 06/28/13 04:40 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Dave Horne]
bennevis Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Shepdave, the footprint of any keyboard will be roughly the same as a spinet or the NU1. A slab will look more open but the footprint is just about the same.



No, the footprint is not the same.

My slab/stage piano, on its dedicated stand, leaves me lots of room on either side of my feet (and pedals) to put my two big boxes of music scores within easy reach. The NU1/N1 doesn't give me that room. Any room.
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#2109504 - 06/28/13 08:15 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
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I am assuming that the advantage of a slab is that I can rather easily put it away when I'm not playing it, unlike an acoustic upright or a cabinet-style DP. It's not a permanent fixture in the room, in other words.

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#2109536 - 06/28/13 09:09 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
dmd Offline
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Originally Posted By: shepdave
I am assuming that the advantage of a slab is that I can rather easily put it away when I'm not playing it, unlike an acoustic upright or a cabinet-style DP. It's not a permanent fixture in the room, in other words.


While that may be true, I do not believe one actually does that. If you are a piano player who likes to play every day, you are unlikely to want to set things up and tear things down each time you decide to play a little while. It is probably going to become a "permanent fixture" in the room.
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#2109560 - 06/28/13 09:49 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: dmd]
shepdave Offline
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Loc: Vienna, VA
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: shepdave
I am assuming that the advantage of a slab is that I can rather easily put it away when I'm not playing it, unlike an acoustic upright or a cabinet-style DP. It's not a permanent fixture in the room, in other words.


While that may be true, I do not believe one actually does that. If you are a piano player who likes to play every day, you are unlikely to want to set things up and tear things down each time you decide to play a little while. It is probably going to become a "permanent fixture" in the room.

No, it's not, actually. If I need to take it to play a gig, it will go into the car with me. If we have a party or house guests, it will go into the storage closet for a day or two.

By "not a permanent fixture," I do not mean it won't stay set up most of the time. I mean it won't be there permanently like an acoustic or a NU1 would be.

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#2109584 - 06/28/13 10:44 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Michael_99 Offline
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shepdave, I have read your post, here:


I am assuming that the advantage of a slab is that I can rather easily put it away when I'm not playing it, unlike an acoustic upright or a cabinet-style DP. It's not a permanent fixture in the room, in other words.


While that may be true, I do not believe one actually does that. If you are a piano player who likes to play every day, you are unlikely to want to set things up and tear things down each time you decide to play a little while. It is probably going to become a "permanent fixture" in the room.


No, it's not, actually. If I need to take it to play a gig, it will go into the car with me. If we have a party or house guests, it will go into the storage closet for a day or two.

By "not a permanent fixture," I do not mean it won't stay set up most of the time. I mean it won't be there permanently like an acoustic or a NU1 would be.

______________________________________________


I have a Yam P95, weighs 26 pounds, slab on an X stand. I do leave it up because I have a little bit of room, but I could easily move it to the deck or any of the tiny rooms in a matter of minutes.

I posted twice about my 3 legged piano and nobody replied. The question is/was, do people leave the piano open or do they close the piano and what type of a vacuum do people use to dust the inside of the piano being sure not to cause any damage in doing so, and nobody responded. In the absence of a response, I uncover the piano and open the top wide when I go to play the piano. When I have finished playing for lunch or a short while, I close the piano lid and cover the piano. Then when I go to play the piano at anytime, I uncover the piano, open the top wide, and play. So I do this several times day until at night I close the top and cover the piano for the last time until morning. It is just like putting away a violin or a guitar so it is not damaged or covered in dust. I just looked inside the piano and it is not dusty even though I have never dusted the piano inside since I bought it secondhand a year ago. I have a felt cover for the keys on the Yam P95 at all times except when I play, of course.

Some people and in some cultures, people always cover everything and remove covers to use them like furniture, computer keyboards, toasters. I also covered the slab with a plastic sheet when it was downstairs in case there was a water leak. I am think of covering the 3 legged piano with a plastic cover on top of the regular cover in case the roof leaks with the rain when I am out and away from the piano. Even though the roof have been re-roofed, it has been a few years and it could happen anytime and, of course, cause damage to the piano.


Edited by Michael_99 (06/28/13 11:14 AM)

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#2109586 - 06/28/13 10:49 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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Don't they sell keyboard covers with an elastic band to protect from dust ?


In an acoustic I would imagine to leave the piano closed would be better to have less dust collection.
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#2109597 - 06/28/13 11:11 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Mta88]
Michael_99 Offline
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Mta88, I have read your post, here:

Don't they sell keyboard covers with an elastic band to protect from dust ?


In an acoustic I would imagine to leave the piano closed would be better to have less dust collection.

_____________________________________________

Very funny. I am still double proofreading the post for errors and you have already responded.

I don't know about the elastic cover for the P95. I guess I could ask at the place where I bought the slab.

As far as the 3 legged piano, it doesn't sound as good with the lid closed. I only ever play ppp, so softly, but it really dose make a difference in the piano. Digital guys spend huge money buying laptops with grand piano sounding software, speakers and amps and special headphones - so for me, I can't be so lazy as to not open the top for the best sound even if I am only playing wrong notes.

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#2109705 - 06/28/13 01:45 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: bennevis]
Dave Horne Offline
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Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Shepdave, the footprint of any keyboard will be roughly the same as a spinet or the NU1. A slab will look more open but the footprint is just about the same.



No, the footprint is not the same.

My slab/stage piano, on its dedicated stand, leaves me lots of room on either side of my feet (and pedals) to put my two big boxes of music scores within easy reach. The NU1/N1 doesn't give me that room. Any room.


I stand corrected, you are correct.
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#2109712 - 06/28/13 02:15 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: ClsscLib]
shepdave Offline
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Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
If you do find a dealer in the DC area that has Kawai products on the floor, please let us know. I had to go to Sam Ash in NYC to try out Kawai slabs (and some other boards not carried at GC, which does have an otherwise decent selection, albeit a somewhat unique ambiance).


Okay, here's a DC-suburbs update, as well as an update on my journey.

I just drove to The Piano Company in Leesburg, VA, which is an authorized dealer for Kawai (and Yamaha and Bechstein and several other makes).

They had a Kawai MP6 and an ES7 on the floor. They let me play to my heart's content, so I noodled and played wrong notes and such for about 20 minutes, bouncing back and forth between the two. The ES7's sound was coming from its own speakers; the speaker-less MP6 was going through an amp about five feet away.

I soon realized that it was unfair to compare the two sounds like that, so they gave me a pair of basic headphones, which made the comparisons much easier.

There was also an acoustic grand just next to these DPs, a Kawai RX2, which I bounced over to several times for comparison.

The ES7 won the contest hands down. It felt and sounded much more like the acoustic grand than did the MP6. If anybody has any further comparison info for these two, I would be grateful.

Now, here's why I will buy it from these guys, assuming I pull the trigger tomorrow: their price on both DPs was exactly the same as all the Internet prices I've seen (Kraft, Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc.--$1,999.99 for the ES7). So there's no reason on earth for me to buy this piano online. These folks are a short drive from my house, and they allowed me to compare to my heart's delight. They earned my sale today.

After they wrote up the sales order on the ES7 (and no, I haven't had a credit card swiped yet), they invited me to sit down at the $75,000 Shigeru (sp?) Kawai from which allegedly come the samples for the DP. Sweet it was indeed.

So I had lots of fun in the piano shop today.

So, ClsscLib, it's The Piano Company in Leesburg. Very helpful, and had both in stock.

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#2109719 - 06/28/13 02:28 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
gvfarns Offline
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Originally Posted By: shepdave
they invited me to sit down at the $75,000 Shigeru (sp?) Kawai from which allegedly come the samples for the DP. Sweet it was indeed.


Well...in the sense that perhaps the samples came from that model, the concert EX. I highly doubt that the actual piano got shipped over from Japan.

$75K actually sounds quite cheap for an EX to me. Makes me wonder if that's really what it was. The other Shigeru models get talked up quite a bit by dealers in my experience. Or maybe the economy or whatever has driven down the prices on these concert grands.

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#2109721 - 06/28/13 02:28 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
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Registered: 10/31/10
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Loc: Vienna, VA
PS: Kawai James, the Kawai locator page you linked me to had a Piano Company store in Manassas, VA, but there doesn't actually seem to be one there.

(For the vast masses who are not in Northern Virginia, apologies for this very specific info.)

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#2109723 - 06/28/13 02:33 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: gvfarns]
shepdave Offline
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Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Well...in the sense that perhaps the samples came from that model, the concert EX. I highly doubt that the actual piano got shipped over from Japan.


No, probably not. smile

Quote:
$75K actually sounds quite cheap for an EX to me. Makes me wonder if that's really what it was. The other Shigeru models get talked up quite a bit by dealers in my experience. Or maybe the economy or whatever has driven down the prices on these concert grands.

No idea. I had never seen one of these before--having never in my life been in the market for one. She just sat me down at that keyboard as I was leaving, just to give me a bit more keyboard fun.

I made the same mistakes on the expensive long grand as I did on the $1,500 digital, though.


Edited by shepdave (06/28/13 03:18 PM)
Edit Reason: I always misspell "of" on an iPad.

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#2109732 - 06/28/13 02:59 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
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Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: shepdave
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
If you do find a dealer in the DC area that has Kawai products on the floor, please let us know. I had to go to Sam Ash in NYC to try out Kawai slabs (and some other boards not carried at GC, which does have an otherwise decent selection, albeit a somewhat unique ambiance).


Okay, here's a DC-suburbs update, as well as an update on my journey.

I just drove to The Piano Company in Leesburg, VA, which is an authorized dealer for Kawai (and Yamaha and Bechstein and several other makes).

They had a Kawai MP6 and an ES7 on the floor. They let me play to my heart's content, so I noodled and played wrong notes and such for about 20 minutes, bouncing back and forth between the two. The ES7's sound was coming from its own speakers; the speaker-less MP6 was going through an amp about five feet away.

I soon realized that it was unfair to compare the two sounds like that, so they gave me a pair of basic headphones, which made the comparisons much easier.

There was also an acoustic grand just next to these DPs, a Kawai RX2, which I bounced over to several times for comparison.

The ES7 won the contest hands down. I felt and sounded much more like the acoustic grand than did the MP6. If anybody has any further comparison info for these two, I would be grateful.

Now, here's why I will buy it from these guys, assuming I pull the trigger tomorrow: their price on both DPs was exactly the same as all the Internet prices I've seen (Kraft, Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc.--$1,999.99 for the ES7). So there's no reason on earth for me to buy this piano online. These folks are a short drive from my house, and they allowed me to compare to my heart's delight. They earned my sale today.

After they wrote up the sales order on the ES7 (and no, I haven't had a credit card swiped yet), they invited me to sit down at the $75,000 Shigeru (sp?) Kawai from which allegedly come the samples for the DP. Sweet it was indeed.

So I had lots of fun in the piano shop today.

So, ClsscLib, it's The Piano Company in Leesburg. Very helpful, and had both in stock.


Thanks, Dave. I know that store from my initial acoustic piano search of 18 months ago. Back then they were also repping Fazioli -- do they still?

That was the first time I ever heard the 16-foot Fazioli concert grand. An imposing instrument, to be sure!

Good luck with the ES-7. Please report back on how it grows on you!


Edited by ClsscLib (06/28/13 02:59 PM)
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#2109742 - 06/28/13 03:17 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: ClsscLib]
shepdave Offline
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Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Thanks, Dave. I know that store from my initial acoustic piano search of 18 months ago. Back then they were also repping Fazioli -- do they still?

Yes; in fact, the first acoustic comparison-grand I used today was a Fazioli, probably a six-footer (didn't note the model), which was the closest one to the ES7. It wasn't in great tune, but sounded nice.

I always wish I were a better pianist when I go into a piano showroom. But I did have some fun today at that store. It helped that I was the only customer there at noon on a Friday, I'm sure.

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#2109822 - 06/28/13 05:30 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
peterws Online   content
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Shepdave-"After they wrote up the sales order on the ES7 (and no, I haven't had a credit card swiped yet), they invited me to sit down at the $75,000 Shigeru (sp?) Kawai from which allegedly come the samples for the DP. Sweet it was indeed."

That is the most impressive sales technique I`ve ever heard . . . Hope you enjoy your new to be instrument! I`m sure you`ll do some recordings . .
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#2109865 - 06/28/13 06:49 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Marko in Boston Online   content
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Hi shepdave, Congratulations on your new ES7. It's truly a wonderful DP.
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#2109910 - 06/28/13 08:59 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Congrats Dave!

And thank you for the info about the dealer locator - I'll forward this to the folks responsible at Kawai America.

Kind regards,
James
x
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#2110459 - 06/30/13 05:20 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: Michael_99]
Mta88 Offline
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Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Originally Posted By: Michael_99
Mta88, I have read your post, here:

Don't they sell keyboard covers with an elastic band to protect from dust ?


In an acoustic I would imagine to leave the piano closed would be better to have less dust collection.

_____________________________________________

Very funny. I am still double proofreading the post for errors and you have already responded.

I don't know about the elastic cover for the P95. I guess I could ask at the place where I bought the slab.

As far as the 3 legged piano, it doesn't sound as good with the lid closed. I only ever play ppp, so softly, but it really dose make a difference in the piano. Digital guys spend huge money buying laptops with grand piano sounding software, speakers and amps and special headphones - so for me, I can't be so lazy as to not open the top for the best sound even if I am only playing wrong notes.



I'm confused I wasn't trying to be funny.

Thought your concern was about dust collection. I suggested a cover for the digital piano and just keep the piano closed when not in use.

Of course u should open it when playing.

:s
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#2110460 - 06/30/13 05:25 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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Congratulations on your ES-7 Dave.

Gosh I really can't wait for my p-105 to arrive..

So excited.

I'm sure your purchase will give you many years of pleasure.

Read up on the ES-7 and it really seems to be a decent instrument, albeit a bit pricey, but seems to be worth it. I wish our piano stores stocked kawai and roland.
Such a pity.


Cheers.
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#2110462 - 06/30/13 05:34 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Mta88 Offline
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Michael_99 Disregard the 2nd to last post I thought u were offended for some reason..

U were referring the how fast I responded I think lol..



Edited by Mta88 (06/30/13 05:35 AM)
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#2110511 - 06/30/13 08:05 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
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Loc: Vienna, VA
I got it! Picked up the ES7 yesterday. Unfortunately, the music store gave me the wrong X-stand (the light-duty one, and I paid for the heavier one). Moreover, I could not fit the piano, bench, stand, and gig bag into my wife's car with my wife still in it, so I'll go pick up the gig bag (and swap out the stand) tomorrow.

But I took the ES7 out last night and played it on a table, and it's über-cool! I am very excited.

Thanks to all of you for your great advice.

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#2110525 - 06/30/13 08:57 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: shepdave
Moreover, I could not fit the piano, bench, stand, and gig bag into my wife's car with my wife still in it, so I'll go pick up the gig bag
I'm just sure a funny comment about leaving the "bag" at the store could be made here LOL.

Congrats on your purchase, and I hope all is worked out with the store quickly s you can get on to enjoying it! smile
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#2110531 - 06/30/13 09:14 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
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Yes, of course, it's about music more than furniture. I know that. But it's also about maintaining a successful 37-year marriage, which has been a part of my life much longer than my piano studies will ever have been.

So, no, I'm not going to dig in my heels and stand my ground on this. Not at all. I'm looking for a solution here that accepts the importance of this piece of furniture to my wife.


I am sure this thread has already gone somewhere else, but I just wanted to throw in there that I went through the same thing--I had a very old spinet in my living room which was taking up the space for where any new piano would go and a deep abiding nostalgic need to hold onto the spinet. Which was shared by my mother, so now you've got TWO people whose attachment to the piano was quite deeply engrained. For her part, she was only ok with that piano not being in HER house because she knew it was in her daughter's house.

So believe me when I say, I understand your wife's point of view because I share it. But I also am the person who wanted a piano to play, so I was quite conflicted on the inside. Like you, I considered a digital as a way to reconcile the problem.

My resolution? I decided to put the spinet in storage. It cannot be fixed in a way to make it a piano enjoyable to play, and even at its best was not a great instrument, so I was loathe to spend a ton of money rehabbing it anyway. What I had to do was understand that it is now a piece of furniture, which doesn't diminish its nostalgic importance, as one can be plenty attached to a piece of furniture. But understanding it that way certainly allowed me to also recognize that not every piece of furniture with nostalgic importance has a place in my decor RIGHT NOW. So into storage it was decided it would go. And then, at the last moment, my dear friend decided to start lessons and she agreed to store it FOR me, in her living room, and we are in agreement that it is my piano, but she's taking care of it for me. Perfect situation and one that was acceptable to me and my mother as she doesn't have kids or anything that would make me afraid that there is any danger to it as a piece of furniture.

So, this is the way I reconciled the situation, and it worked out well for me--and for my mother--in clearing it out in order to make room for a Piano That Is A Musical Instrument. In fact, I was able to replace it with a beautiful mahogany 5'10" grand piano. I can't tell you how happy I am to have it to play!

One day I might find room for it, or maybe not. I am still quite attached to my old piano, and I'm sure I will always be. But for the time being, that attachment isn't coming at the expense of having room for a musical instrument that can be played. And my friend sends me pictures of my piano, like it's at summer camp, haha.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2110535 - 06/30/13 09:19 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1313
Oy vey. I'm sorry. I see you already got a digital. Oh well. I hope my post does not come off as being critical of your ultimate choice. We all solve problems differently, of course. And I can see a perfectly reasonable thought process that ends up with a digital, so I am absolutely happy for you. I know what it's like to finally have something you like to play right there in your house instead of that spinet that ultimately I just stared at with anger because it was not what I wanted it to be, haha.

ETA: Also, I just rented a digital for the summer (Roland RD700NX) since I'm away, and I'm actually a little excited to see what a digital would have been like had I gone that direction! So PLEASE do not understand me to be implying that my way is the only way! smile

Enjoy!


Edited by TwoSnowflakes (06/30/13 09:25 AM)
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2110604 - 06/30/13 12:55 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
Thanks for your long post, TwoSnowflakes. I actually just read it to my wife. No, I didn't take it as criticism of my choice at all--and I'm very excited about my choice. Very glad I didn't go cheap on the DP. I think the Kawai will do me for a good while.

We have two 20-something children who are both musicians. If one of them would get good and settled somewhere, we'd probably pass the Everett on to the next generation and get a good-quality upright. (My wife just went on a flight of fancy about building an extension to our house and making a room for a long grand. I pointed out that it'd be much easier and cheaper to get an upright!)

It sounds like your problem worked itself out well, I must say.

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#2110609 - 06/30/13 01:08 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: shepdave
(My wife just went on a flight of fancy about building an extension to our house and making a room for a long grand. I pointed out that it'd be much easier and cheaper to get an upright!)



Oh you poor poor fool! Pay attention to your wife! You only live once! I lust for a nice long Kawai Grand! You have no idea what you're missing! Did you forget to take your medication? Yes, that's it. Go back to your wife. Beg her to get back on her flight of fancy. Tell her you forgot to take your medication. The dealer will easily take the money for the ES7 and apply it to a beautiful long loving Kawai Grand. Don't worry about the money. The world is coming to and end soon. The money won't do you any good. Enjoy the Kawai Grand in the meantime. Now repeat after me: Shigeru....Shigeru....Shigeru.... did you remember to take your medication?....Shigeru....Shigeru....Shigeru.... smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2110621 - 06/30/13 01:27 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
rnaple, you are the devil, aren't you? Actually, my wife is so into remodeling our house that she might have only been half joking. And while I was paying for my digital yesterday in the piano showroom, she was walking around plinking on a few of the grands there. Maybe she caught a bit of new-piano fever herself.

So the saga might not be at a permanent end at all, just a successful pause.

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#2110627 - 06/30/13 01:45 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: shepdave
So the saga might not be at a permanent end at all, just a successful pause.


Yes! Yes! That's the way to think! I have another nice little chant for you: My wife is wise and I am not....My wife is wise and I am not...:)

And just think. You can thank that nice, cute, little spinet for it all. You starting out dabbling on it. And your wife's great great great great.....oh whatever....she was so good to pass it down to your wife. Now go in there and give that cute little spinet a coat of furniture polish for being so good! smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2110635 - 06/30/13 01:58 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: shepdave
rnaple, you are the devil, aren't you?


You might want to ask Kawai James about that. Err...or...lets say...after he gets my Official Kawai Godzilla Metronome built. .... Hello? James? ..... Hello? smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2110716 - 06/30/13 05:05 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
Originally Posted By: shepdave
I got it! Picked up the ES7 yesterday. Unfortunately, the music store gave me the wrong X-stand (the light-duty one, and I paid for the heavier one). Moreover, I could not fit the piano, bench, stand, and gig bag into my wife's car with my wife still in it, so I'll go pick up the gig bag (and swap out the stand) tomorrow.

If possible, you might want to swap the X stand for a Z stand or another kind of more stable stand. X stands are not ideal for a heavy digital piano, they will start wobbling when you play. The wobbling often makes noise too.
_________________________
Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2110801 - 06/30/13 07:07 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: torhu]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1896
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: torhu
Originally Posted By: shepdave
I got it! Picked up the ES7 yesterday. Unfortunately, the music store gave me the wrong X-stand (the light-duty one, and I paid for the heavier one). Moreover, I could not fit the piano, bench, stand, and gig bag into my wife's car with my wife still in it, so I'll go pick up the gig bag (and swap out the stand) tomorrow.

If possible, you might want to swap the X stand for a Z stand or another kind of more stable stand. X stands are not ideal for a heavy digital piano, they will start wobbling when you play. The wobbling often makes noise too.


I wouldn't get and X or Z stand.

If you are not going to get the furniture stand that is made for it ...

This is the one I would get:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessori...=1&cIM=true
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2110817 - 06/30/13 07:26 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
shepdave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 42
Loc: Vienna, VA
You all are giving me something to think about with regard to a stand. I'll probably go ahead and swap out the lighter X-stand for the heavier one that I paid for. But I'm also going to think about a different, more stable design.

Don, the company that makes that table-style stand you linked to, König & Meyer, makes the best guitar stand I've ever owned. I'm inclined to pay extra money and go with that one.

Portability is an issue, so I won't be getting the cabinet-style stand with the more permanent sides, I'm pretty sure.

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#2110846 - 06/30/13 08:43 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1313
LOL! Nothing like you getting a Shigeru Kawai and she getting an addition to build around to solve the space issue caused by an unassuming spinet in the most deliciously outrageous way possible. Your Everett, if it had the capacity to know what it had caused, would be very proud of itself.

I like this plan. I like it a lot.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2110866 - 06/30/13 09:13 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
+1 on the K&M table stand.
(if the official ES7 stand is not an option, of course...)

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2110928 - 07/01/13 12:36 AM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: rnaple]
Mta88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 837
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago
Originally Posted By: rnaple
Originally Posted By: shepdave
(My wife just went on a flight of fancy about building an extension to our house and making a room for a long grand. I pointed out that it'd be much easier and cheaper to get an upright!)



Oh you poor poor fool! Pay attention to your wife! You only live once! I lust for a nice long Kawai Grand! You have no idea what you're missing! Did you forget to take your medication? Yes, that's it. Go back to your wife. Beg her to get back on her flight of fancy. Tell her you forgot to take your medication. The dealer will easily take the money for the ES7 and apply it to a beautiful long loving Kawai Grand. Don't worry about the money. The world is coming to and end soon. The money won't do you any good. Enjoy the Kawai Grand in the meantime. Now repeat after me: Shigeru....Shigeru....Shigeru.... did you remember to take your medication?....Shigeru....Shigeru....Shigeru.... smile



On my goodness. Lmao...


I'm sorry Dave but I am supporting rnaple 100%

What I would give to own a grand acoustic...

There is nothing wrong with owning both a digital piano and an acoustic piano in your house.

In fact most people tend to own both. Digital piano for practicing with headphones and late at night.

Grand acoustic for absolute musical pleasure and satisfaction.

I say listen to your wife. She is wise indeed wink
_________________________
Yamaha P105 :: Galaxy Vintage D :: Galaxy II K4 Collection (Steinway - Vienna Grand - German Baby Grand)::Native Instruments - The Giant :: Alicia Keys piano Software :: Kontakt ::

Sony V6 Studio Headphones :: Presonus Audiobox USB ::Rokit 6 G3::

Kayserburg UH132 Grand Upright Piano

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#2181639 - 11/13/13 02:07 PM Re: Should I get a digital piano? [Re: shepdave]
Sly Cat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 103
Loc: England - via Scotland
I know I'm a bit tardy with a reply here - but for anyone else reading and in the market, I've owned a Yamaha DGX 640 for a couple of years now and I'm very happy with it.

I've previously owned two upright acoustics, the first very old and a bit defective, the second much better quality and with a lovely action. I had to sell my second because I now live in a flat and, for the sake of peace from the neighbours, I've now entered the digital market so I can adjust the volume or silence it completely with headphones - very nice for practising late at night or if others in the house want a bit of peace and quiet. Even for anyone who owns an acoustic, I'd definitely recommend a digital too for just these reasons - and, of course, you can record straight to a computer and use DAWs etc.

It was a wrench selling my last acoustic as it was a very nice instrument but I have to say I'm pleased with my foray into the digital market. I didn't expect to get a DP on my rather humble budget which actually SOUNDED like an acoustic - and there is a difference, of course - but it's close enough to make me happy. Especially as it's in a medium sized room with a lot of furniture and I don't need to turn the speakers up terribly loud for a decent sound.

This instrument is also a lot heavier and more solid than it looks. With the furniture stand fitted, this piano isn't going to be moved unless that's your intent.

I like the weighted key action on this DP - I'm perfectly sure there are far better out there but on my budget, this was the best deal. The action's pretty close to the feel of my last acoustic, which is a bonus. I also bought the optional pedal unit which I think is essential for anyone learning piano. Don't know how I'd live without at least a damper pedal - and this unit has all three.

Btw, a tip I leaned from a musician online. Place your digital piano close to a wall - a couple of inches away is ideal - and the wall acts as a bass boost. Really makes the sound a lot richer.

Anyway, a satisfied Yamaha customer here. But if you're shopping for a digital and if it's at all possible, it's best to try out a number of different makes and models before buying as everyone has different preferences when it comes to touch and sound.
_________________________
Currently playing a Yamaha DGX 640

Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art.


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